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Lilshmike
Post #271
Friday September 18, 2020 6:07pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,510
Original post from whyneverme

To add on here... If my memory is correct, we didn't really have a solid right back at the time either because Dest hadn't yet committed, so I can totally understand why one might take a flyer to experiment in this game
Spot on. We had Yedlin, but nobody else had really stepped up and shown that they could lock down that spot or be a backup. Olosunde (who was a reserve team guy who went to League One)? Moore (who was also a reserve team guy who got a few games before going out on loan to the 2nd division in Spain)? Chandler... who time and again underwhelmed with the national team...

Context is required on a lot of what people complain about... and they consistently fail to put things into context.

Lilshmike
Post #272
Friday September 18, 2020 6:09pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,510
Original post from Spank

If my memory serves me right, I'm pretty sure we had Yedlin at the time. We actually still have Yedlin.
Yes, but after that we didn't have many guys who we could confidently say "yes, that guy could get the job done if/when we need".

18 months later... that situation has changed with Dest and Cannon. We are starting to have options.

Spank
661
Post #273
Friday September 18, 2020 6:33pm

Joined Feb 2013
Total Posts: 142
Original post from Lilshmike

Spot on. We had Yedlin, but nobody else had really stepped up and shown that they could lock down that spot or be a backup. Olosunde (who was a reserve team guy who went to League One)? Moore (who was also a reserve team guy who got a few games before going out on loan to the 2nd division in Spain)? Chandler... who time and again underwhelmed with the national team...

Context is required on a lot of what people complain about... and they consistently fail to put things into context.


This still seems odd to me. So Berhalter experimented with Adams at RB to either become the starting RB or backup? At that time, Adams was killing it for RBL and was clearly the better CM. It doesn't make any sense to try to fill a position that was already filled by Yedlin.

Lilshmike
Post #274
Friday September 18, 2020 6:46pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,510
Adams had only just gone to RBL. That's neither here nor there though...

In theory, based on how you play, it could have made some sense to play him there if you have a certain formation or style you're wanting to implement. Not saying I would personally do that if I was manager... I'd stick with Yedlin and put Adams in midfield.

That being said, if you have a thought or want to experiment, a friendly is where to try it. GGG tried it once, experimented, and has since moved on. I personally don't see that as something to complain about. Yet, some people have to find something to cry over...

cudevil
Post #275
Friday September 18, 2020 7:26pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,105
Original post from Lilshmike

So then are you saying that you're in favor of never experimenting with a lineup? Not in favor of trying something during a friendly?

Again, I'm confused, because so many people (yourself included) have claimed he needs to call in certain guys to give them a shot and experiment and see what happens when giving guys a chance... yet you're burning him for doing that exact same thing in one of his first games in charge (where we won)...

I'm not defending Trapp and saying he should get called in... but I mean, come on. Find something else because thats both dumb and hypocritical.

"Gregg tried something experimental one time in a friendly where we won, with one player in particular, and because of that he can never be looked at the same... oh yeah, and lets call up some random reserve team kid on a youth team in Europe and give him a shot to experiment, and if GGG doesn't call him then hes an idiot"...

Like... thats actually stupid.


Expanding the player pool in light of qualification failure rather rigid adherence to "has to be playing for his club to get called in" is good experimenting. Particularly when those guys that have been playing at the club level are not capable of playing internationally at the level needed.

Taking one of your best young CM prospects-a guy that has a chance to be a world class 6 and who is likely a future captain of the Nats-and playing him stupidly out of position is dumb experimenting.

There is nothing hypocritical about roasting GB for that decision.

cudevil
Post #276
Friday September 18, 2020 7:33pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,105
Original post from Lilshmike

Adams had only just gone to RBL. That's neither here nor there though...

In theory, based on how you play, it could have made some sense to play him there if you have a certain formation or style you're wanting to implement. Not saying I would personally do that if I was manager... I'd stick with Yedlin and put Adams in midfield.

That being said, if you have a thought or want to experiment, a friendly is where to try it. GGG tried it once, experimented, and has since moved on. I personally don't see that as something to complain about. Yet, some people have to find something to cry over...


He did it to have Trapp on the field. And since then, he has continued to call in dead enders that don't have a future in the set up, all because he won't consider playing guys that might be able to contribute to the Nats (and are likely the future of the Nats) because they aren't currently getting consistent run for their clubs. The fact that he says he won't stupidly play Adams out of position doesn't detract from the common theme of a myopic approach to the player pool.

And no, the injuries aren't a valid excuse. The fact that Adams, Pulisic, or McKennie aren't available, doesn't mean you call in Roldan, Arriola, and the like.

Lilshmike
Post #277
Friday September 18, 2020 8:19pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,510
Original post from cudevil

He did it to have Trapp on the field. And since then, he has continued to call in dead enders that don't have a future in the set up, all because he won't consider playing guys that might be able to contribute to the Nats (and are likely the future of the Nats) because they aren't currently getting consistent run for their clubs. The fact that he says he won't stupidly play Adams out of position doesn't detract from the common theme of a myopic approach to the player pool.

And no, the injuries aren't a valid excuse. The fact that Adams, Pulisic, or McKennie aren't available, doesn't mean you call in Roldan, Arriola, and the like.
Ok, so what you're saying is that you're mad that GGG hasn't called in random reserve/youth/European based players that YOU want to see because YOU have a feeling that they could somehow help, even though YOU have not talked with the coaches, watched these guys on a daily basis in training, and most of the kids haven't even proven they can crack it on their first teams...

Got it.

I mean, you'd think that our manager/staff would be doing those things and would know. Oh right... they are. That's legitimately their job, and if anyone thinks they have no idea about these guys, or aren't keeping tabs, or haven't been watching film, or haven't been in contact with clubs over the progress of certain players, then they have absolutely no idea how these things work out.

But Trapp!! Roldan!! OMG!!!

Again, I don't like those guys, but give me a break...

hamsamwich
Post #278
Friday September 18, 2020 9:33pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,454
Thanks for answering in your own way I appreciate it.

Your response to question 3 I think is why you've defended the guy for months going on years and other people can't let it go. And I see why there's a difference.

I'm only taking reputable reporters and Earnie Stewart at their word. Maybe there were hidden candidates that nobody knows about. But to me that sounds like fishing for an excuse rather than just going by what all the people involved said: Gregg was the only candidate for the job.

@lilshmike- you live in a world of black and white. And it's right there for you to see there was only one candidate. Just like Berhalter has come around to saying Adams is a CM. Yes he has. But there was only one candidate. You, "Mr Facts" of all people can't deny this. No other candidates it's time you stop parading a narrative of some inclusive search. That never happened.

hamsamwich
Post #279
Friday September 18, 2020 9:35pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,454
As for the other points, you deemed it not necessary that Berhalter coach up young Americans while in Sweden and the crew. Fair that was your opinion and I can't argue from a success point of view he tried to go with proven players. And you're right there is no rule making him do that. But that contrasts him with those that have or currently are (ie the guys I named). But I appreciate the response.

What he did as a club manager should have a bearing as to his national team prospects. If not we could just get anyone from the entire country if club doesn't matter.

Here's one last one: with a very young team as we move forward (there is an acknowledgment of the Lost Generation and the dying legs of Bradley, Jozy, Bedoya etc) and transition to a new core- is it important to have a coach that can get success out of young players??? Development aside. Can the coach take a young squad and get them to compete???

Lilshmike
Post #280
Friday September 18, 2020 9:45pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,510
Original post from hamsamwich

Thanks for answering in your own way I appreciate it.

Your response to question 3 I think is why you've defended the guy for months going on years and other people can't let it go. And I see why there's a difference.

I'm only taking reputable reporters and Earnie Stewart at their word. Maybe there were hidden candidates that nobody knows about. But to me that sounds like fishing for an excuse rather than just going by what all the people involved said: Gregg was the only candidate for the job.

@lilshmike- you live in a world of black and white. And it's right there for you to see there was only one candidate. Just like Berhalter has come around to saying Adams is a CM. Yes he has. But there was only one candidate. You, "Mr Facts" of all people can't deny this. No other candidates it's time you stop parading a narrative of some inclusive search. That never happened.
Not trying to defend the search (or lack thereof really). Really trying to point out that we are not some dream destination for big time managers. People threw out names like Mourinho, Pochettino, Setien, etc...

We have to take a look in the mirror as fans and understand the reality of our situation. We're not going to win the world cup... but we can be good enough to make it, get out of the group stage, and based on some luck and our opponents, win a game or 2 in the knockouts.

I'd love for us to be better, and we are most certainly moving in that direction and could very well be good enough for a serious post group stage push (like a Croatia) in a couple WCs... but we aren't there yet.

And until such time, it's not like we could be doing much better with respect to a manager. I'm not sold on if he is the right guy, and I think there are likely better managers out there who would have taken the gig, but I don't think that hes gotten a fair shake SINCE THE BEGINNING due to the whole year long search and his brother being the former COO.

For most, that completely overshadows anything he has, does, or will do as USMNT manager. I try to be fair to him, remove that bias, give him a chance, and understand when he has bad luck (particularly with injuries to the player pool).

Lilshmike
Post #281
Friday September 18, 2020 10:38pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,510
Original post from hamsamwich

As for the other points, you deemed it not necessary that Berhalter coach up young Americans while in Sweden and the crew. Fair that was your opinion and I can't argue from a success point of view he tried to go with proven players. And you're right there is no rule making him do that. But that contrasts him with those that have or currently are (ie the guys I named). But I appreciate the response.

What he did as a club manager should have a bearing as to his national team prospects. If not we could just get anyone from the entire country if club doesn't matter.

Here's one last one: with a very young team as we move forward (there is an acknowledgment of the Lost Generation and the dying legs of Bradley, Jozy, Bedoya etc) and transition to a new core- is it important to have a coach that can get success out of young players??? Development aside. Can the coach take a young squad and get them to compete???
Great last questions...

Gregg is doomed. Plain and simple. Whats the saying... you don't want to be the man after the man, you want to be the man after that?

What is great is that we have a lot of young, promising guys who, come 2026, should (theoretically) be entering into or in the middle of their primes. I think that Gregg has the job for 2022... but for 2026, I think they may move on to another manager (assuming GGG doesn't manage us through some ridiculous run at the WC in 2022).

The only thing that is going to get these guys to the next level internationally is through time, games, and experience. Right now, all these guys are young and immature to the international game. They haven't had to really grind through CONCACAF qualifying on the road. That will be a rude awakening.

For Gregg, in the lead up to 2022, its an uphill battle. Most of these guys are Olympic age too, so we should assume (given we qualify) that the core of our team will be there as well. Its not this cycle where we should expect great things. This cycle is for learning and gaining experience. Gregg, as a USMNT vet who has played in World Cups and understands the grind, may be a decent intermediary...

...but the reality is that our guys aren't set up for success in 2022. Its 2026 that we should be targeting. And given that I think they may move on to a better/bigger/more experienced manager for the 2026 WC ON OUR HOME TURF (cough, Jesse Marsch, cough)... Berhalter is simply the man after the man. Hes doomed for (generally speaking from a fan's point of view) failure.

Its the man after Berhalter who is going to reap the benefits of the player pool we are developing now...

stoked-3
Post #282
Friday September 18, 2020 11:22pm

Joined Mar 2020
Total Posts: 99
Original post from Lilshmike

Great last questions...

Gregg is doomed. Plain and simple. Whats the saying... you don't want to be the man after the man, you want to be the man after that?

What is great is that we have a lot of young, promising guys who, come 2026, should (theoretically) be entering into or in the middle of their primes. I think that Gregg has the job for 2022... but for 2026, I think they may move on to another manager (assuming GGG doesn't manage us through some ridiculous run at the WC in 2022).

The only thing that is going to get these guys to the next level internationally is through time, games, and experience. Right now, all these guys are young and immature to the international game. They haven't had to really grind through CONCACAF qualifying on the road. That will be a rude awakening.

For Gregg, in the lead up to 2022, its an uphill battle. Most of these guys are Olympic age too, so we should assume (given we qualify) that the core of our team will be there as well. Its not this cycle where we should expect great things. This cycle is for learning and gaining experience. Gregg, as a USMNT vet who has played in World Cups and understands the grind, may be a decent intermediary...

...but the reality is that our guys aren't set up for success in 2022. Its 2026 that we should be targeting. And given that I think they may move on to a better/bigger/more experienced manager for the 2026 WC ON OUR HOME TURF (cough, Jesse Marsch, cough)... Berhalter is simply the man after the man. Hes doomed for (generally speaking from a fan's point of view) failure.

Its the man after Berhalter who is going to reap the benefits of the player pool we are developing now...


Well this is exactly opposite of what true Nats fans want to hear. Our American spirit is to not make excuses but to rather fight like hell. Whats our excuse Covid? everyone else in the world has dealt with that.

Could it be US soccer screwed the whole search which left us in limbo-could it be then GB stuck with mls players to long and for his "experimenting"?

We have a guy who just received the number 10 for Chelsea, a guy who scored in a Uefa semi, a guy playing next to Rolando, a guy who played today for Bayern. A LB who played great in his 1st PL game-a guy who barcelona is chasing Oh and a kid who has played 2x for Barca first team, a kid who is starting striker in Bundasliga, and a young Reyna who is a baller and I think amoungst the leader scorers in preseason. we have several who are close to 1st team mins with major clubs.

Can you tell me why we are set up to fail, and why we shouldnt expect good things

And if you are gearing up for 2026-then why have you been against calling the euro fringe guys-if they lack experience why not throw them into friendlies now so then can gain experience before our glorious 2026 run

Know Nothing
Post #283
Saturday September 19, 2020 12:41am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,830
Original post from Lilshmike

What Kool Aid am I sipping? Which one of my statements is wrong? What point did I make that wasn't rooted in some sort of fact?

That those players have either been called in, were going to be called in, or weren't due to injury? That clubs are responsible for developing players, not the national team? For calling out Ham over being mad at GGG for not calling in McKennie (when he has)? Playing Adams at RB in one game over a year ago and has since stated that he will play CM? For not calling in Weah (when he has been consistently injured)? For not calling in Reyna (when Reyna has only just recently broke into his senior team at club and GGG stated he would be called in next window, and this was pre-pandemic)?

I'm confused, where is the Kool Aid? Legitimately everything I am saying is spot on.


My kool-aid reference is not based on any factual basis. It is just an observation how the vast majority of your carefully crafted, carefully scripted responses seem to follow the USSF/GGG line.

Know Nothing
Post #284
Saturday September 19, 2020 12:51am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,830
Original post from Lilshmike

Great last questions...

Gregg is doomed. Plain and simple. Whats the saying... you don't want to be the man after the man, you want to be the man after that?

What is great is that we have a lot of young, promising guys who, come 2026, should (theoretically) be entering into or in the middle of their primes. I think that Gregg has the job for 2022... but for 2026, I think they may move on to another manager (assuming GGG doesn't manage us through some ridiculous run at the WC in 2022).

The only thing that is going to get these guys to the next level internationally is through time, games, and experience. Right now, all these guys are young and immature to the international game. They haven't had to really grind through CONCACAF qualifying on the road. That will be a rude awakening.

For Gregg, in the lead up to 2022, its an uphill battle. Most of these guys are Olympic age too, so we should assume (given we qualify) that the core of our team will be there as well. Its not this cycle where we should expect great things. This cycle is for learning and gaining experience. Gregg, as a USMNT vet who has played in World Cups and understands the grind, may be a decent intermediary...

...but the reality is that our guys aren't set up for success in 2022. Its 2026 that we should be targeting. And given that I think they may move on to a better/bigger/more experienced manager for the 2026 WC ON OUR HOME TURF (cough, Jesse Marsch, cough)... Berhalter is simply the man after the man. Hes doomed for (generally speaking from a fan's point of view) failure.

Its the man after Berhalter who is going to reap the benefits of the player pool we are developing now...


Well, technically, GGG was the man AFTER the man. After Arena led us to failure, Sarachan picked up the pieces and played experimental lineups that did relatively well...even tying the eventual WC champs in their barn.

It is unfortunate that nobody could anticipate COVID and it's effect on developing a team. It sucks, but his continued pursuit of calling in players that most could see were not up to the international level has also not helped the situation either.

stoked-3
Post #285
Saturday September 19, 2020 3:04am

Joined Mar 2020
Total Posts: 99
Dave Sarachan actually did a really good job. he played new guys and his teams performance -Im sure he didnt want it. but based on his performance he should have stayed in some capacity. He showed he realized the flaws with arena and tried new things.

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