RECAPS
EXTRA TIME
YANKS ABROAD LOCKER ROOM
 
Lilshmike
Post #16
Wednesday November 21, 2018 11:02pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 870
Original post from dolcem

In politics, you know something is true when it is officially denied. (I forget who I'm paraphrasing.)

If it were really just a rumor, his agent would not have felt the need to make a statement about it publicly.

It has taken the USSF an ENTIRE YEAR to cross T's and dot I's. Meanwhile, our program is stagnating and we look like a complete joke. I feel so bad for Pulisic.

What does Lopetegui have to do with any of those other less-competent managers you listed? He's a foreigner?

The guy just lost his job a couple weeks ago. And you somehow know that means that he is "trying to remain relevant?" How do we know that he isn't genuinely interested in starting a new project with us if WE DIDN'T EVEN INTERVIEW HIM? It's not like there are any meaningful tournaments for us from now until 2022. If he signs with us, he's definitely not going anywhere, and if we were worried about that, we could put in a release clause into his contract.

I don't see how this is short termism. A much, much more qualified manager has expressed interest in managing us than the only two candidates we have actually considered and we should tell him know because we're afraid of "optics?" I still don't understand how hiring Gregg Berhalter or Tab Ramos instead of Julen Lopetegui is better for the program long-term, especially when we could have hired either of those two A YEAR AGO, or could hire them at any point in the next 20 years.

I'm not yelling at you, I'm yelling at the USSF. I AM SICK OF THIS AMATEUR S***SHOW.
I'm going to approach this differently here...

The USSF made it clear somewhat earlier on that they weren't going to hire a manager until 1) after the February Presidential election (and rightly so, because it makes no sense to have a guy - Gulati - promote a manager then step down), and 2) after a GM was hired (which was Earnie in June).

In reality, the clock started once Earnie was hired, because that was part of USSF's plan for that position - for the GM to identify and nominate a hire to the board. Although the position has been vacant for 12 months, the search realistically was "carried out" for 6 months.

As I've been noted as saying before on the boards (months and months ago might I add) Gregg's brother Jay is one of the individuals who runs US soccer. There is definitely a potential conflict of interest there considering Jay has one of the final says in the entire process, and a way to mitigate that is by drawing out the process as long as possible and making it seem as though there are few options available. This is a topic though for another post.

Tab was initially approached for the interim job over Sarachan, but Tab turned it down because he wasnt going to take it on an interim basis. He said it was full time or nothing. From his perspective, this was a good decision and didnt make sense. They would have to hire a new U20 coach, make the decision if that was going to be reserved for Tab when things were done, go through another process with that, etc. That would have been a mess. If I was Tab, I would have done the same thing and told them to shove it.

USSF tried to shift some of the blame from themselves (at a time when there was critical opinion due to missing out on the WC) by waiting until after a GM was hired and subsequently enabling them to make the call on who to hire. Typical politics and corporate governance by reducing accountability and giving the keys to someone else who can then in turn be in the hot seat for when/if things go bad or wrong decisions were made (the fall guy here is Earnie).

So, the process begins with Earnie 6 months ago, and as they have noted, their first priority was determining the direction of US soccer (hires, youth development, general philosophy, etc.). This takes some time, so let's say about 2 months. The clock for the coaching search now sits at 4 months ago.

Realistically, they probably already had a shortlist of managers. I would have loved Tata, but all rumors indicate that he will not be it. People can blame it on "not speaking English fluently" but I think that is low hanging fruit. Realistically, Tata probably told USSF early on that he wasnt interested in the job, so USSF didnt pursue because they knew what the outcome would be. With Mexico, Argentina, Colombia, etc. all rumored (this excludes any potential club teams) we were likely low on his priority list.

Just as it looked bad for Lopetegui to enquire about a job and be told no, its equally as bad for us to pursue someone and be told no. Not only that, but whoever we bring in next would know that they are second best. That is never a great foot to start on when beginning a new job/era in our program.

They likely had a shortlist of many people, went through many rounds of brainstorming and discussions, and settled on about 1-3 guys. From there, it's extremely possible that they knew who their first choice was and kept everything quiet as to not spoil the apple cart.

As noted, the manager has realistically been known for a while, but the holdup is more than likely in the deals of their contract. If Gregg really is the guy (as rumors tell us), with the LA Galaxy circling to get his services, this puts him in a prime position to twist the arm of the USSF to give him lucrative terms or risk losing him to the galaxy - a PR nightmare for USSF. If I was him, I would be doing the exact same thing.

What's worse - a manager saying no to the US to manage another, better nation? Or a manager saying no to manager a team in our domestic league? The answer to that is pretty obvious, and another reason to keep everything tight lipped until it's all a done deal.

Lopetegui enquiring, likely at a time when contract negotiations are underway, plays to the points in my previous post. Yes, hes talented and would likely do well, but we should say no thanks and move on.

Again, in my opinion when you lay out everything as I just have, it makes sense. Yes, it's not ideal that it took so long, but its understandable given everything at play, it's a complex situation with a lot at stake, and (to me) doesnt demonstrate incompetence - rather, standard operating procedure.

Just trying to be fair minded, take my emotion and passion for the USMNT out of it, and try to look at it from their (USSF's) perspective.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #17
Wednesday November 21, 2018 11:53pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,840
Original post from Lilshmike

I'm going to approach this differently here...

The USSF made it clear somewhat earlier on that they weren't going to hire a manager until 1) after the February Presidential election (and rightly so, because it makes no sense to have a guy - Gulati - promote a manager then step down), and 2) after a GM was hired (which was Earnie in June).

In reality, the clock started once Earnie was hired, because that was part of USSF's plan for that position - for the GM to identify and nominate a hire to the board. Although the position has been vacant for 12 months, the search realistically was "carried out" for 6 months.

As I've been noted as saying before on the boards (months and months ago might I add) Gregg's brother Jay is one of the individuals who runs US soccer. There is definitely a potential conflict of interest there considering Jay has one of the final says in the entire process, and a way to mitigate that is by drawing out the process as long as possible and making it seem as though there are few options available. This is a topic though for another post.

Tab was initially approached for the interim job over Sarachan, but Tab turned it down because he wasnt going to take it on an interim basis. He said it was full time or nothing. From his perspective, this was a good decision and didnt make sense. They would have to hire a new U20 coach, make the decision if that was going to be reserved for Tab when things were done, go through another process with that, etc. That would have been a mess. If I was Tab, I would have done the same thing and told them to shove it.

USSF tried to shift some of the blame from themselves (at a time when there was critical opinion due to missing out on the WC) by waiting until after a GM was hired and subsequently enabling them to make the call on who to hire. Typical politics and corporate governance by reducing accountability and giving the keys to someone else who can then in turn be in the hot seat for when/if things go bad or wrong decisions were made (the fall guy here is Earnie).

So, the process begins with Earnie 6 months ago, and as they have noted, their first priority was determining the direction of US soccer (hires, youth development, general philosophy, etc.). This takes some time, so let's say about 2 months. The clock for the coaching search now sits at 4 months ago.

Realistically, they probably already had a shortlist of managers. I would have loved Tata, but all rumors indicate that he will not be it. People can blame it on "not speaking English fluently" but I think that is low hanging fruit. Realistically, Tata probably told USSF early on that he wasnt interested in the job, so USSF didnt pursue because they knew what the outcome would be. With Mexico, Argentina, Colombia, etc. all rumored (this excludes any potential club teams) we were likely low on his priority list.

Just as it looked bad for Lopetegui to enquire about a job and be told no, its equally as bad for us to pursue someone and be told no. Not only that, but whoever we bring in next would know that they are second best. That is never a great foot to start on when beginning a new job/era in our program.

They likely had a shortlist of many people, went through many rounds of brainstorming and discussions, and settled on about 1-3 guys. From there, it's extremely possible that they knew who their first choice was and kept everything quiet as to not spoil the apple cart.

As noted, the manager has realistically been known for a while, but the holdup is more than likely in the deals of their contract. If Gregg really is the guy (as rumors tell us), with the LA Galaxy circling to get his services, this puts him in a prime position to twist the arm of the USSF to give him lucrative terms or risk losing him to the galaxy - a PR nightmare for USSF. If I was him, I would be doing the exact same thing.

What's worse - a manager saying no to the US to manage another, better nation? Or a manager saying no to manager a team in our domestic league? The answer to that is pretty obvious, and another reason to keep everything tight lipped until it's all a done deal.

Lopetegui enquiring, likely at a time when contract negotiations are underway, plays to the points in my previous post. Yes, hes talented and would likely do well, but we should say no thanks and move on.

Again, in my opinion when you lay out everything as I just have, it makes sense. Yes, it's not ideal that it took so long, but its understandable given everything at play, it's a complex situation with a lot at stake, and (to me) doesnt demonstrate incompetence - rather, standard operating procedure.

Just trying to be fair minded, take my emotion and passion for the USMNT out of it, and try to look at it from their (USSF's) perspective.


Add to the fact Earnie didn't really take over the GM duties until August.

Know Nothing
Post #18
Thursday November 22, 2018 12:40am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,476
Original post from Lilshmike

Again, in my opinion when you lay out everything as I just have, it makes sense. Yes, it's not ideal that it took so long, but its understandable given everything at play, it's a complex situation with a lot at stake, and (to me) doesnt demonstrate incompetence - rather, standard operating procedure.

Just trying to be fair minded, take my emotion and passion for the USMNT out of it, and try to look at it from their (USSF's) perspective.


Yes, well layed out and thought out.

Except that incompetence seems to be standard operating procedure for the USSF lately.

dolcem
Post #19
Thursday November 22, 2018 8:26am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,802
Original post from skangles

Dolcem, I tried to DM you but your inbox is full.


Cleaned it, problem solved.
GET A CLUB TEAM
dolcem
Post #20
Thursday November 22, 2018 9:20am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,802
Lilshmike:

I'm not going to quote your post because it's too lengthy, but there is a lot to discuss there, as well as some factual inaccuracies. Your posts are usually very good but this just comes off as an apologist PR piece for the USSF.

First off, why did they have to have Stewart wait until August to take over his duties??? He is a front office guy for f***'s sake. Was finishing out two months of his contract at the Union in the middle of the MLS season more important than being a part of the USNT? HE COULDN'T DO BOTH AT ONCE?

And, if for some explicable reason, he had to wait until August 1st, why do we have to wait until DECEMBER to hire Gregg Berhalter? Jesse Marsch left his job midseason to be an assistant coach...why can't Berhalter at least manage both the USSF and the Crew at the same time?

Oh, I know why, because THE USSF IS RUN BY SUM, AND MLS CONTRACTS (STEWART'S AT THE UNION AND BERHALTER'S AT THE CREW) ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYTHING INVOLVING THE USNT.

Original post from Lilshmike

The clock for the coaching search now sits at 4 months ago.


No one gives a flying f*** about when the USSF set the clock. We had an interim manger FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR. THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS, THE ONLY CLOCK THAT EXISTS. NO ONE GIVES A S*** ABOUT THE USSF'S EXCUSES OR THEIR DELAYS AND EXTENDED TIMELINES.

Original post from Lilshmike

...
Realistically, Tata probably told USSF early on that he wasnt interested in the job, so USSF didnt pursue because they knew what the outcome would be.
...

They likely had a shortlist of many people, went through many rounds of brainstorming and discussions, and settled on about 1-3 guys. From there, it's extremely possible that they knew who their first choice was and kept everything quiet as to not spoil the apple cart.


IT SURE DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THEY DID A LOT OF BRAINSTORMING OR SHORTLISTING BECAUSE TATA WAS NOT INTERVIEWED, PETER VERMES WAS NOT INTERVIEWED, OSCAR PAREJA WAS NOT INTERVIEWED, JESSE MARSCH WAS NOT INTERVIEWED, JUAN CARLOS OSORIO WAS NOT INTERVIEWED. Tata's agent tweeted about it last year, he said he "would love to" but that he was focused on Atlanta first. Now his contract is up, but we don't want him. When asked about it again, he said "how could I feel disappointed for a position that they didn't think I was a good candidate."

WE SPENT FOUR MONTHS AND THREE WEEKS SINCE STEWART'S HIRE, NEARLY 6 MONTHS SINCE WE CHOSE HIM AS GM, AND 8 MONTHS SINCE WE ELECTED OUR NEW PRESIDENT, AND WE INTERVIEWED A GRAND TOTAL OF ONE PERSON (MAYBE TWO IF YOU INCLUDE TAB) AND WE STILL HAVEN'T HIRED HIM? YEAH, WE SURE WOULDN'T WANT HIM TO MISS ANY COLUMBUS CREW GAMES BUT THAT SURE AS H*LL IS A LOT MORE IMPORTANT.

Original post from Lilshmike

Just as it looked bad for Lopetegui to enquire about a job and be told no, its equally as bad for us to pursue someone and be told no. Not only that, but whoever we bring in next would know that they are second best. That is never a great foot to start on when beginning a new job/era in our program.


What in the love of Ch***t are you even talking about? First of all, we aren't going to be told no because Lopetegui already wants to manage us. Second, YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT THE USSF LOOKING BAD? YOU DON'T THINK IT LOOKED BAD WHEN WE COULDN'T BEAT TRINIDAD & TOBAGO? YOU DON'T THINK IT LOOKS BAD THAT A YEAR LATER WE STILL DON'T HAVE A MANAGER? YOU DON'T THINK IT LOOKS BAD THAT WE DON'T WANT A CLEARLY SUPERIOR CANDIDATE BECAUSE WE'RE "TOO FAR ALONG IN THE PROCESS" OF HIRING A MANAGER WHO COULD HAVE TAKEN OVER A YEAR AGO, OR EVEN FOUR MONTHS AGO? I'M SORRY BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S POSSIBLE FOR US TO LOOK ANY WORSE RIGHT NOW THAN WE ALREADY DO, AND HIRING THE BEST POSSIBLE CANDIDATE CERTAINLY DOES NOT LOOK BAD. HIRING BERHALTER OR RAMOS AFTER THIS IS GOING TO LOOK A HE** OF A LOT WORSE. AND I, NOR DO THE REST OF US FANS, DO NOT GIVE A FLYING F*** ABOUT HOW THE USSF LOOKS RIGHT NOW, WE JUST WANT THE BEST F***ING MANAGER FOR THE JOB THAT WE CAN GET. I THINK WE HAVE BIGGER PROBLEMS RIGHT NOW THAN WORRYING ABOUT THE USSF'S IMAGE.

Original post from Lilshmike

Lopetegui enquiring, likely at a time when contract negotiations are underway, plays to the points in my previous post. Yes, hes talented and would likely do well, but we should say no thanks and move on.


You know what? I would much rather hire THE GUY THAT WANTS TO MANAGE US than someone who is considering taking charge at an MLS club instead of the USNT. I don't blame Gregg for not wanting to join this circus but that is the perfect time for the USSF to HIRE THE BETTER GUY.

Original post from Lilshmike

Again, in my opinion when you lay out everything as I just have, it makes sense. Yes, it's not ideal that it took so long, but its understandable given everything at play, it's a complex situation with a lot at stake, and (to me) doesnt demonstrate incompetence - rather, standard operating procedure.


No, it does NOT make sense. It does NOT make sense that it took them three months to hire a GM. Any USSF presidential candidate should have already had a very good idea of who s/he wanted to hire, and should have spent no more than a few weeks doing it. Stewart should have been chosen by April, May at the LATEST, and he should have taken over THAT SAME DAY AND NOT WAIT UNTIL AUGUST 1ST FOR HIS CONTRACT TO RUN OUT. We just had the BIGGEST DEBACLE IN OUR HISTORY, it should not have taken months to choose a GM. AND EVEN IF FOR SOME INEXPLICABLE REASON HE HAD TO WAIT UNTIL AUGUST 1ST, WHY THE F*** DID WE HAVE TO WAIT 5 FREAKING MORE MONTHS AND ABOUT 8 WASTED FRIENDLIES TO IGNORE ALL OF THE OTHER MORE QUALIFIED CANDIDATES AND HIRE THE ONLY F***ING PERSON THAT WE INTERVIEWED AS THE MANAGER???

Original post from Lilshmike

Just trying to be fair minded, take my emotion and passion for the USMNT out of it, and try to look at it from their (USSF's) perspective.


Yeah, it to9 tally makes sense from their perspective if your boss runs MLS and all things MLS (ie Stewart and Berhalter not being distracted from their jobs until the day their contracts ran out) are infinitely more important than the USNT. It makes a ton of sense if you just want to market the MLS and ignore any infinitely more qualified candidates (Martino, Osorio, Lopetegui) that are not born and bred MLSers. It makes a ton of sense IF YOU DON'T GIVE A FLYING F*** ABOUT HOW THE USNT IS COACHED OR PLAYS.

You're literally the only person on the internet right now that does not think the USSF is a bunch of buffoons trying to drive a clown car.

THE FANS, AND ESPECIALLY THE TEAM AND ITS PLAYERS, HAVE HAD THEIR ENTIRE YEAR WASTED BY THESE IDIOTS. I AM FREAKING ANGRY RIGHT NOW. SDAF;JLKVX3443;KJLCVXK;SDJD45432FSKLVCXKO ;DFGIRDKL
F DFGJ IDGR2453JOI3542DSML; V RTWRFS
R GRI 34 dfnlrg htj kfd ERTGR54OJG;LS giorthejknjgd 8u46i5jktre 8u9fd jikvnc,g u89df NF JTIJGKDF U95OLIJKTRNG,DFIOJLK 59UIOJT RKEGDF DFVUC8795IHJK4NEM,RSD 8T9UTI5JKNREGDF 8U54404579E IUjkn,sdf,mvcjkn,mtid fuutre89uo ijlk5tergdfuo8 vxcuijtrkeudg8f9oijlkj kgfdiokjtreudfg kjlRU IKJRTERET U8945IJKERT 89U954WIEO JFS U98 UPJ EOITR 9DF
GET A CLUB TEAM
Lilshmike
Post #21
Thursday November 22, 2018 5:11pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 870
Original post from dolcem

Lilshmike:

I'm not going to quote your post because it's too lengthy, but there is a lot to discuss there, as well as some factual inaccuracies. Your posts are usually very good but this just comes off as an apologist PR piece for the USSF.
First, I try my best to be as factual as possible. Please identify what exactly I presented that is factually inaccurate. I will gladly admit my fault if so.
Original post from dolcem
First off, why did they have to have Stewart wait until August to take over his duties??? He is a front office guy for f***'s sake. Was finishing out two months of his contract at the Union in the middle of the MLS season more important than being a part of the USNT? HE COULDN'T DO BOTH AT ONCE?

And, if for some explicable reason, he had to wait until August 1st, why do we have to wait until DECEMBER to hire Gregg Berhalter? Jesse Marsch left his job midseason to be an assistant coach...why can't Berhalter at least manage both the USSF and the Crew at the same time?
This... there is a thing known as professionalism. Yes, by no means is Earnie (or most people for that matter) bound and obligated to stay in their current role once they get a new job, but there is a thing known as integrity and professionalism. I have no problem with Earnie doing this. This is a job. It isn't good protocol to burn bridges by taking a new job and saying "screw you" to your old job and leaving when you wish. For example, I recently took a new job, but told my current employer that I would not leave my previous company before they were able to locate a replacement and I was able to integrate them into the role. I told them that I had a professional reputation to protect, and I made them wait almost 2 months before leaving so that I could help identify, hire, and train the person taking over for my new position. I did this as a gesture of good faith to my previous employer as a way of saying thank you for all that they had given me, and told my previous employer that I refuse to leave any job unfinished and would bring that same level of respect and professionalism to my new role.

I imagine that Earnie was probably in the same type of position. I have no problem with this.

Further, if indeed it is Berhalter/Tata/whoever this same example applies. There is a something known as professionalism, reputation and integrity. If Berhalter/Tata/whoever were to leave their post as manager of their club teams right before the conclusion of their club seasons during a push to the playoffs, leaving them high and dry during the playoffs and potentially jeopardizing everything that the franchise and fans have invested in throughout the entire season, that could really harm the reputation of those managers and call into question their professionalism and integrity.

For this reason, yes, I am totally fine with them showing respect to their current employers and finishing the job they started. If they do their previous employer dirty, you can almost certainly expect them to do the same to us. Again, this is a job. I'm not sure if you have ever had to hire/fire people, but these are legitimate considerations that must be made.
Original post from dolcem

Oh, I know why, because THE USSF IS RUN BY SUM, AND MLS CONTRACTS (STEWART'S AT THE UNION AND BERHALTER'S AT THE CREW) ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYTHING INVOLVING THE USNT.
This is a fair point, and I tend to agree with this to an extent.
Original post from dolcem

No one gives a flying f*** about when the USSF set the clock. We had an interim manger FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR. THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS, THE ONLY CLOCK THAT EXISTS. NO ONE GIVES A S*** ABOUT THE USSF'S EXCUSES OR THEIR DELAYS AND EXTENDED TIMELINES.
See my previous point about professionalism. That should address this. Again, I am fine with this. And again, the manager has likely been selected but there is probably something that we are not aware of that is preventing the announcement/etc.
Original post from dolcem

IT SURE DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THEY DID A LOT OF BRAINSTORMING OR SHORTLISTING BECAUSE TATA WAS NOT INTERVIEWED, PETER VERMES WAS NOT INTERVIEWED, OSCAR PAREJA WAS NOT INTERVIEWED, JESSE MARSCH WAS NOT INTERVIEWED, JUAN CARLOS OSORIO WAS NOT INTERVIEWED. Tata's agent tweeted about it last year, he said he "would love to" but that he was focused on Atlanta first. Now his contract is up, but we don't want him. When asked about it again, he said "how could I feel disappointed for a position that they didn't think I was a good candidate."
First, stars and stripes FC is not a legitimate news source. And an armchair analyst not connected to the insides of the USSF who lists off who they think are "logical candidates" really doesn't mean anything.

Further, see my previous points in previous posts about promoting and PR. Tata's agent made a statement on Tata's behalf... knowing full well that Tata was entering the last year of his contract and that he was going to be an attractive hire to someone else. This is about promoting your client and making sure your name is talked about so you seem desirable to potential suitors, as well as potentially get multiple entities to battle for your signature. This is commonplace in sports. This is business as usual. Nothing to see here.
Original post from dolcem

What in the love of Ch***t are you even talking about? First of all, we aren't going to be told no because Lopetegui already wants to manage us. Second, YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT THE USSF LOOKING BAD? YOU DON'T THINK IT LOOKED BAD WHEN WE COULDN'T BEAT TRINIDAD & TOBAGO? YOU DON'T THINK IT LOOKS BAD THAT A YEAR LATER WE STILL DON'T HAVE A MANAGER? YOU DON'T THINK IT LOOKS BAD THAT WE DON'T WANT A CLEARLY SUPERIOR CANDIDATE BECAUSE WE'RE "TOO FAR ALONG IN THE PROCESS" OF HIRING A MANAGER WHO COULD HAVE TAKEN OVER A YEAR AGO, OR EVEN FOUR MONTHS AGO? I'M SORRY BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S POSSIBLE FOR US TO LOOK ANY WORSE RIGHT NOW THAN WE ALREADY DO, AND HIRING THE BEST POSSIBLE CANDIDATE CERTAINLY DOES NOT LOOK BAD. HIRING BERHALTER OR RAMOS AFTER THIS IS GOING TO LOOK A HE** OF A LOT WORSE. AND I, NOR DO THE REST OF US FANS, DO NOT GIVE A FLYING F*** ABOUT HOW THE USSF LOOKS RIGHT NOW, WE JUST WANT THE BEST F***ING MANAGER FOR THE JOB THAT WE CAN GET. I THINK WE HAVE BIGGER PROBLEMS RIGHT NOW THAN WORRYING ABOUT THE USSF'S IMAGE.
Calm down there. I was talking about Tata saying no to us, not Lopetegui. As stated, it is very possible that with all of the other supposed nations (and likely club teams) vying for Tata's signature (including a rumor of Mexico making him the highest paid national team manager in the world), that he would turn us down. And again, you don't want to offer the job to someone, have them reject (which looks bad), then turn to someone else (with them knowing that they weren't first choice). You keep it quiet and tight lipped. Yeah, maybe they could have interviewed more people, but if you want one guy as your first choice, interview that one guy, that one guy wants the job, then there really is no point in continuing further with others.

And going back to Lopetegui, just because someone is interested doesn't mean that they want the job. Inquiring about the job is different than saying that you will take the job. And again, if you have already determined who it is going to be, and are likely negotiating terms of the contract with said person, why give that other person the time of day?

Lets be real, Lopetegui was fired. Lopetegui is going to need another job. He likely felt that with his profile, contacting the USSF would be an easy way to get back into things. He needs to get a new gig to make a living. Sorry, but again, they should have said no thanks this late in the game due to the points I presented in previous posts.
Original post from dolcem

You know what? I would much rather hire THE GUY THAT WANTS TO MANAGE US than someone who is considering taking charge at an MLS club instead of the USNT. I don't blame Gregg for not wanting to join this circus but that is the perfect time for the USSF to HIRE THE BETTER GUY.

No, it does NOT make sense. It does NOT make sense that it took them three months to hire a GM. Any USSF presidential candidate should have already had a very good idea of who s/he wanted to hire, and should have spent no more than a few weeks doing it. Stewart should have been chosen by April, May at the LATEST, and he should have taken over THAT SAME DAY AND NOT WAIT UNTIL AUGUST 1ST FOR HIS CONTRACT TO RUN OUT. We just had the BIGGEST DEBACLE IN OUR HISTORY, it should not have taken months to choose a GM. AND EVEN IF FOR SOME INEXPLICABLE REASON HE HAD TO WAIT UNTIL AUGUST 1ST, WHY THE F*** DID WE HAVE TO WAIT 5 FREAKING MORE MONTHS AND ABOUT 8 WASTED FRIENDLIES TO IGNORE ALL OF THE OTHER MORE QUALIFIED CANDIDATES AND HIRE THE ONLY F***ING PERSON THAT WE INTERVIEWED AS THE MANAGER???
First point, this is negotiating tactics. If in fact is is Berhalter, its likely that he is using the Galaxy rumors to get better terms of the contract. This is a job, remember? Are you saying that if you were him you wouldn't do the same thing? Of course you would. And if you didn't, then either you lacked experience in those situations or you had a bad agent.

The second part of this post I addressed this in previous points. Professionalism, integrity, reputation, etc. Also, there are things that we likely aren't aware of - and probably for good reason. Its not like you just hire a new president, then the next day - POOF - a new manager is magically hired. Have you ever gone through a search for an employer? Have you ever been part of a hiring process? Have you ever switched jobs and left one company/job to go to another? It takes time, it doesn't happen overnight. Take your emotion and hysteria out of it and look at it from a real world perspective. This is standard operating procedure. And considering there were no legitimate competitive games during this period, the hire of a new coach - as nice as it would have been - was not critical. Disagree if you want, but the reality is that it is not absolutely necessary until competitive games roll around.

Player development? No. As I have stated before, national teams typically aren't responsible for player development. Clubs are.
Original post from dolcem

You're literally the only person on the internet right now that does not think the USSF is a bunch of buffoons trying to drive a clown car.
There is a reason that we are the ones on the internet complaining... not the ones making millions of dollars to make decisions. Disagree if you want, but I think that this entire thing is standard.

I would rather USSF take the time to get it right, instead of make a knee jerk hire in order to appease the masses of random idiots on the internet who complain about things they have no idea about.

Not calling you personally an idiot - but there is a lot of nonsense on the internet. As stated, there is a reason we are where we are.

And the reality is that if we do well as a national team and make the WC and get out of the group stage and get to the confed cup - the USSF will be praised for being smart and doing the right thing, making the right decisions, etc. Its selective outrage right now due to emotion.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #22
Thursday November 22, 2018 6:54pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,840
Original post from Lilshmike

First, I try my best to be as factual as possible. Please identify what exactly I presented that is factually inaccurate. I will gladly admit my fault if so.
This... there is a thing known as professionalism. Yes, by no means is Earnie (or most people for that matter) bound and obligated to stay in their current role once they get a new job, but there is a thing known as integrity and professionalism. I have no problem with Earnie doing this. This is a job. It isn't good protocol to burn bridges by taking a new job and saying "screw you" to your old job and leaving when you wish. For example, I recently took a new job, but told my current employer that I would not leave my previous company before they were able to locate a replacement and I was able to integrate them into the role. I told them that I had a professional reputation to protect, and I made them wait almost 2 months before leaving so that I could help identify, hire, and train the person taking over for my new position. I did this as a gesture of good faith to my previous employer as a way of saying thank you for all that they had given me, and told my previous employer that I refuse to leave any job unfinished and would bring that same level of respect and professionalism to my new role.

I imagine that Earnie was probably in the same type of position. I have no problem with this.

Further, if indeed it is Berhalter/Tata/whoever this same example applies. There is a something known as professionalism, reputation and integrity. If Berhalter/Tata/whoever were to leave their post as manager of their club teams right before the conclusion of their club seasons during a push to the playoffs, leaving them high and dry during the playoffs and potentially jeopardizing everything that the franchise and fans have invested in throughout the entire season, that could really harm the reputation of those managers and call into question their professionalism and integrity.

For this reason, yes, I am totally fine with them showing respect to their current employers and finishing the job they started. If they do their previous employer dirty, you can almost certainly expect them to do the same to us. Again, this is a job. I'm not sure if you have ever had to hire/fire people, but these are legitimate considerations that must be made.
This is a fair point, and I tend to agree with this to an extent.
See my previous point about professionalism. That should address this. Again, I am fine with this. And again, the manager has likely been selected but there is probably something that we are not aware of that is preventing the announcement/etc.
First, stars and stripes FC is not a legitimate news source. And an armchair analyst not connected to the insides of the USSF who lists off who they think are "logical candidates" really doesn't mean anything.

Further, see my previous points in previous posts about promoting and PR. Tata's agent made a statement on Tata's behalf... knowing full well that Tata was entering the last year of his contract and that he was going to be an attractive hire to someone else. This is about promoting your client and making sure your name is talked about so you seem desirable to potential suitors, as well as potentially get multiple entities to battle for your signature. This is commonplace in sports. This is business as usual. Nothing to see here.
Calm down there. I was talking about Tata saying no to us, not Lopetegui. As stated, it is very possible that with all of the other supposed nations (and likely club teams) vying for Tata's signature (including a rumor of Mexico making him the highest paid national team manager in the world), that he would turn us down. And again, you don't want to offer the job to someone, have them reject (which looks bad), then turn to someone else (with them knowing that they weren't first choice). You keep it quiet and tight lipped. Yeah, maybe they could have interviewed more people, but if you want one guy as your first choice, interview that one guy, that one guy wants the job, then there really is no point in continuing further with others.

And going back to Lopetegui, just because someone is interested doesn't mean that they want the job. Inquiring about the job is different than saying that you will take the job. And again, if you have already determined who it is going to be, and are likely negotiating terms of the contract with said person, why give that other person the time of day?

Lets be real, Lopetegui was fired. Lopetegui is going to need another job. He likely felt that with his profile, contacting the USSF would be an easy way to get back into things. He needs to get a new gig to make a living. Sorry, but again, they should have said no thanks this late in the game due to the points I presented in previous posts.
First point, this is negotiating tactics. If in fact is is Berhalter, its likely that he is using the Galaxy rumors to get better terms of the contract. This is a job, remember? Are you saying that if you were him you wouldn't do the same thing? Of course you would. And if you didn't, then either you lacked experience in those situations or you had a bad agent.

The second part of this post I addressed this in previous points. Professionalism, integrity, reputation, etc. Also, there are things that we likely aren't aware of - and probably for good reason. Its not like you just hire a new president, then the next day - POOF - a new manager is magically hired. Have you ever gone through a search for an employer? Have you ever been part of a hiring process? Have you ever switched jobs and left one company/job to go to another? It takes time, it doesn't happen overnight. Take your emotion and hysteria out of it and look at it from a real world perspective. This is standard operating procedure. And considering there were no legitimate competitive games during this period, the hire of a new coach - as nice as it would have been - was not critical. Disagree if you want, but the reality is that it is not absolutely necessary until competitive games roll around.

Player development? No. As I have stated before, national teams typically aren't responsible for player development. Clubs are.
There is a reason that we are the ones on the internet complaining... not the ones making millions of dollars to make decisions. Disagree if you want, but I think that this entire thing is standard.

I would rather USSF take the time to get it right, instead of make a knee jerk hire in order to appease the masses of random idiots on the internet who complain about things they have no idea about.

Not calling you personally an idiot - but there is a lot of nonsense on the internet. As stated, there is a reason we are where we are.

And the reality is that if we do well as a national team and make the WC and get out of the group stage and get to the confed cup - the USSF will be praised for being smart and doing the right thing, making the right decisions, etc. Its selective outrage right now due to emotion.


I loved this post. Great counter points with not taking the bait.

dolcem
Post #23
Monday November 26, 2018 6:56am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,802
Original post from Lilshmike

First, I try my best to be as factual as possible. Please identify what exactly I presented that is factually inaccurate. I will gladly admit my fault if so.
This... there is a thing known as professionalism. Yes, by no means is Earnie (or most people for that matter) bound and obligated to stay in their current role once they get a new job, but there is a thing known as integrity and professionalism. I have no problem with Earnie doing this. This is a job. It isn't good protocol to burn bridges by taking a new job and saying "screw you" to your old job and leaving when you wish. For example, I recently took a new job, but told my current employer that I would not leave my previous company before they were able to locate a replacement and I was able to integrate them into the role. I told them that I had a professional reputation to protect, and I made them wait almost 2 months before leaving so that I could help identify, hire, and train the person taking over for my new position. I did this as a gesture of good faith to my previous employer as a way of saying thank you for all that they had given me, and told my previous employer that I refuse to leave any job unfinished and would bring that same level of respect and professionalism to my new role.

I imagine that Earnie was probably in the same type of position. I have no problem with this.

Further, if indeed it is Berhalter/Tata/whoever this same example applies. There is a something known as professionalism, reputation and integrity. If Berhalter/Tata/whoever were to leave their post as manager of their club teams right before the conclusion of their club seasons during a push to the playoffs, leaving them high and dry during the playoffs and potentially jeopardizing everything that the franchise and fans have invested in throughout the entire season, that could really harm the reputation of those managers and call into question their professionalism and integrity.


It's ****ing soccer, players and managers RARELY finish out their contracts. They use a transfer system for ****'s sake.

Are you meaning to tell me that it was more important to American soccer that we spend months longer without a coach so that Earnie Stewart could end his job as Philly GM on August 1 as oppose to May 1? August 1st is STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON. WHAT ****ING DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE????

More importantly, WHY THE **** CAN'T HE DO BOTH JOBS AT ONCE? IT'S NOT LIKE BEING THE GM OF A NATIONAL TEAM IS A FULL TIME JOB. HE HAD ONE TASK TO DO: HIRE A MANAGER. YOU DON'T THINK HE COULD HAVE DONE THAT ON TOP OF HIS RESPONSIBILITIES AS PHILLY GM FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS??? THAT YOU WOULD EVEN MAKE THAT ARGUMENT IS RIDICULOUS.

And NO ONE in Columbus would have been annoyed with Berhalter if he left mid-season. EVERYONE knows that being the manager of the USNT is much more important for American soccer than managing an MLS team. Players and managers leave ALL THE TIME when better offers come around. Berhalter had been in charge of Columbus for years. Anyway, he easily could have DONE BOTH AT THE SAME TIME. You cannot seriously debate this point.

Now Berhalter is going to have hardly any preparation for the Gold Cup. We'll have Camp Cupcake but those aren't our starters. We'll have just a couple of friendlies beforehand and then the start of our most important tournament until the 2022 World Cup.

Original post from Lilshmike

For this reason, yes, I am totally fine with them showing respect to their current employers and finishing the job they started. If they do their previous employer dirty, you can almost certainly expect them to do the same to us. Again, this is a job. I'm not sure if you have ever had to hire/fire people, but these are legitimate considerations that must be made.
This is a fair point, and I tend to agree with this to an extent.
See my previous point about professionalism. That should address this. Again, I am fine with this. And again, the manager has likely been selected but there is probably something that we are not aware of that is preventing the announcement/etc.
First, stars and stripes FC is not a legitimate news source. And an armchair analyst not connected to the insides of the USSF who lists off who they think are "logical candidates" really doesn't mean anything.

Further, see my previous points in previous posts about promoting and PR. Tata's agent made a statement on Tata's behalf... knowing full well that Tata was entering the last year of his contract and that he was going to be an attractive hire to someone else. This is about promoting your client and making sure your name is talked about so you seem desirable to potential suitors, as well as potentially get multiple entities to battle for your signature. This is commonplace in sports. This is business as usual. Nothing to see here.
Calm down there. I was talking about Tata saying no to us, not Lopetegui. As stated, it is very possible that with all of the other supposed nations (and likely club teams) vying for Tata's signature (including a rumor of Mexico making him the highest paid national team manager in the world), that he would turn us down. And again, you don't want to offer the job to someone, have them reject (which looks bad), then turn to someone else (with them knowing that they weren't first choice). You keep it quiet and tight lipped. Yeah, maybe they could have interviewed more people, but if you want one guy as your first choice, interview that one guy, that one guy wants the job, then there really is no point in continuing further with others.


So let me get this straight...we shouldn't even attempt to contact any managers that might say no to us because we might "look bad" (pretty comical considering we couldn't even tie T&T to go to the World Cup). Let's just stick with mediocre MLS guys because we know they won't say no. That is literally an adms comment right there. But anyway, it is a moot point because VERMES TWEETED THAT HE WASN'T INTERVIEWED. TATA SAID THAT HE WASN'T INTERVIEWED. YOU ARE BEING ENTIRELY FACTUALLY INACCURATE. IN DOUG MCINTYRE JUST CONFIRMED THAT PAREJA AND BERHALTER WERE THE ONLY TWO PEOPLE INTERVIEWED. WHY WOULD WE SPEND AN ENTIRE YEAR, 8 MONTHS, OR 4 MONTHS, HOWEVER YOU WANT TO SPIN IT, SEARCHING FOR A REPLACEMENT AFTER THE BIGGEST DEBACLE IN OUR HISTORY AND ONLY INTERVIEW TWO CANDIDATES? IT'S AN EMBARRASSMENT.

Original post from Lilshmike

And going back to Lopetegui, just because someone is interested doesn't mean that they want the job. Inquiring about the job is different than saying that you will take the job. And again, if you have already determined who it is going to be, and are likely negotiating terms of the contract with said person, why give that other person the time of day?

Lets be real, Lopetegui was fired. Lopetegui is going to need another job. He likely felt that with his profile, contacting the USSF would be an easy way to get back into things. He needs to get a new gig to make a living. Sorry, but again, they should have said no thanks this late in the game due to the points I presented in previous posts.
First point, this is negotiating tactics. If in fact is is Berhalter, its likely that he is using the Galaxy rumors to get better terms of the contract. This is a job, remember? Are you saying that if you were him you wouldn't do the same thing? Of course you would. And if you didn't, then either you lacked experience in those situations or you had a bad agent.


Is this for real? Are you actually making that argument? On what planet do managers contact teams to say that they're interested and not actually be interested? And how on earth CAN YOU READ LOPETEGUI'S FRIGGIN MIND? TELL ME THE POWERBALL NUMBERS MISS CLEO

Original post from Lilshmike

The second part of this post I addressed this in previous points. Professionalism, integrity, reputation, etc. Also, there are things that we likely aren't aware of - and probably for good reason. Its not like you just hire a new president, then the next day - POOF - a new manager is magically hired. Have you ever gone through a search for an employer? Have you ever been part of a hiring process? Have you ever switched jobs and left one company/job to go to another? It takes time, it doesn't happen overnight. Take your emotion and hysteria out of it and look at it from a real world perspective. This is standard operating procedure. And considering there were no legitimate competitive games during this period, the hire of a new coach - as nice as it would have been - was not critical. Disagree if you want, but the reality is that it is not absolutely necessary until competitive games roll around.

Player development? No. As I have stated before, national teams typically aren't responsible for player development. Clubs are.
There is a reason that we are the ones on the internet complaining... not the ones making millions of dollars to make decisions. Disagree if you want, but I think that this entire thing is standard.

I would rather USSF take the time to get it right, instead of make a knee jerk hire in order to appease the masses of random idiots on the internet who complain about things they have no idea about.

Not calling you personally an idiot - but there is a lot of nonsense on the internet. As stated, there is a reason we are where we are.

And the reality is that if we do well as a national team and make the WC and get out of the group stage and get to the confed cup - the USSF will be praised for being smart and doing the right thing, making the right decisions, etc. Its selective outrage right now due to emotion.


Well what I can tell you about interviews is that every time I have been interviewed for a position, THEY HAVE INTERVIEWED MORE THAN TWO F***ING PEOPLE.

WHY THE F*** DID IT TAKE A YEAR TO "GET IT RIGHT" AND HIRE AN MLS GUY? YOU CAN'T SERIOUSLY ARGUE THAT THEY NEEDED A YEAR TO THINK ABOUT HIRING GREGG BERHALTER. IF IT TOOK THEM A YEAR TO GET US SOMEONE LIKE LOPETEGUI, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AWESOME.

THIS IS PRETTY F***ING OBVIOUS. THE USSF IS CONTROLLED BY SUM, AND EXISTS FOR THE PURPOSE OF MARKETING MLS. BECAUSE THE MLS IS SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE USNT, WE COULDN'T HAVE EARNIE STEWART DO AN HOUR OF WORK FOR THE USSF UNTIL THE DAY HIS PHILADELPHIA UNION CONTRACT RAN OUT (MID SEASON), AND WE COULDN'T HAVE BERHALTER DO ANYTHING EITHER UNTIL HIS SEASON FINISHED.

WE WASTED AN ENTIRE YEAR AND NOW THE NEXT COACH WILL HAVE HARDLY ANY PREPARATION FOR THE GOLD CUP. WE SHOULD BE REBUILDING AFTER THE BIGGEST DEBACLE IN OUR HISTORY AND I FIND IT AMAZING THAT ANYONE WOULD DEFEND THESE CORRUPT DAFS;KJLEERKLJ 9 JI 89ERR43IJ FEMS 9I034OJKREWF 89UIJK LEWSDFM, 9JELKFSDCMSDFKLRE JLDFVRGEJI DFGKJa lkjsfu ierkjh fds ukjnmefrdiou 84reifkjdkj efwad9s8uijAS8U IJK
GET A CLUB TEAM
dolcem
Post #24
Monday November 26, 2018 7:21am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,802
"We can't have anyone working at the MLS to do anything else while they're under contract and they have to finish it to the day"

"We shouldn't contact any manager that might say no because we would look bad, so let's just contact MLS guys that we know will say yes."

"Tata shouldn't have been interviewed because he didn't speak English, even though he was awesome for Atlanta." OK, maybe you didn't say that, but what's your excuse?

"Lopetegui contacted us but he he wasn't actually interested, he was lying about it."

"Taking an entire year after the worst debacle in our history to interview two candidates and then hire an MLS guy is standard operating procedure."

Come on man, are these real arguments? Don't tell me that this has anything to do with internet knee-jerk reactions. NO OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WOULD DEAL WITH THIS ****.

We had players PUBLICLY come out and say that there was a clear agenda to promote MLS players under the last guy in charge, and it results in the biggest disaster in our history, and we respond but having the coach's assistant take charge on interim basis FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR so we could interview two MLS candidates, all so that no one involved in the process would have to spend one minute while under MLS contract doing anything else. Watch Wil Trapp and Zardes rack up crazy minutes.

The USSF is a complete joke. mme was right...people should boycott the games, or at least boycott buying merchandise. It's a complete joke that the same company that runs our domestic league runs the national team too-and that conflict of interest caused us to miss our first World Cup in 30 years.
GET A CLUB TEAM
db707
Post #25
Monday November 26, 2018 11:52am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 723
dolcem, are you having a stroke?

hamsamwich
Post #26
Monday November 26, 2018 1:39pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,768
I think it makes sense to have an American coach but the problem is we could've had Berhalter when we made coach Dave the interim guy. So it's a timing thing that's the real annoying part. The insider stuff is almost as annoying but what are you gonna do? (Lopetegui or not- with all the time Earnie has had I'm surprised we haven't heard of say Van Gaal or Hiddink as a rumor). That must mean Gregg is on his way (not like Santa in his sleigh, Gregg has no toys to bring- and the delay means the kids are now angry on Xmas morning. We could've been playing with our new toy already).

Page 2 of 2
« Previous 1 2

The final stretch of the English league season is upon us, with several Americans on the verge of relegation with their teams.
RECENT POSTS
Tale of Two Young Yanks in Europe
Wagner Nears Premier League Goal
YA lineup prediction vs. T&T
vom Steeg lands at Fortuna