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cudevil
Post #91
Tuesday November 6, 2018 11:27pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 696
Original post from bjelks

To reiterate why I brought those guys up for your understanding, it was to give examples of guys that some believe will he aged out that are still being called up when Morales is too old even though he's younger them. Blatant bias against him.

The fact is Acosta, Delgado, Villafana are all Latin with MLS ties. Another example of USSF bias. Thanks for pointing out.

I know who you rate MLS on the same level as Champs League but the fact is it's below Bundes 2 and not much higher than German reserve/ youth such as Werder 23s. In the words of Jermaine Jones, a 25 yr old in MLS is the equivalent of a 20 yr old in Germany. This coming from a player that has played in both leagues.


No, sorry, MLS is not equivalent to the Regionalliga or Bundes 3 or whatever league the German U23 teams play in. That's a stupid, counterfactual argument.

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #92
Tuesday November 6, 2018 11:27pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,398
I'm most excited to see De la Torre. I'm always excited to see Sargent. I don't have any issue with him not cracking his club first team yet, but getting minutes ahead of others on the nats.

Imo, it's apples and oranges what he does for club and for the nats. Imo, at the international level, he is already ahead of most of the guys on the nats' forward depth chart...he reads the game at a high level and makes great decisions at tempo...When he's on the field for the nats he's already making a positive impact. It's just about how he looks and what he does with the nats that matters. Can't wait to see him combo with Pulisic.

bjelks
Post #93
Tuesday November 6, 2018 11:44pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 767
Original post from cudevil

No, sorry, MLS is not equivalent to the Regionalliga or Bundes 3 or whatever league the German U23 teams play in. That's a stupid, counterfactual argument.


I said mls isn't much better than the regionalliga. The fact is there is a much higher likelihood that a teenager in regionalla will become a top league player than a 26 yr old in mls. Now you can believe whatever arena and garber tell you, but neither have won an intl tourney at any level, so I'm not gonna trust them.
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #94
Wednesday November 7, 2018 12:04am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 820
I watch an ungodly amount of soccer. The quality of MLS is at least on par with Championship and 2 Bundesliga. If someone feels that MLS is the equivalent of Regionaliga or League One, then they clearly don't watch MLS or those leagues.

Championship is a good measurement in reality. There may be 1 team in MLS each season that could play in the Prem and not get relegated. Theres probably 2-3 who may be good enough to fight for promotion to the Prem. The worst teams in MLS each season are likely as good as Championship bottom feeders/the top League One teams.

Nobody has quoted Arena or Garber. Nobody has even brought up either of their names other than you. Seriously, what are you talking about?

The fact is that there is a higher likelihood of a teenager growing up in the system of their home country and playing for a team in the top division of that country, than a teenager going to a play for a top league in another country when they aren't a domestic player or weren'tbrought up in that system. Not only that, but the league that a player plays in does not by default make them better or worse than a player who plays in another league, simply because that player plays in said league.

Sorry, but you keep picking battles you can't win.

Know Nothing
Post #95
Wednesday November 7, 2018 12:10am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,439
Original post from cudevil

So...the definition of insanity would also apply to continued kvetching about Trapp's inclusion.


Well played

Lilshmike
Post #96
Wednesday November 7, 2018 12:26am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 820
Original post from bjelks

To reiterate why I brought those guys up for your understanding, it was to give examples of guys that some believe will he aged out that are still being called up when Morales is too old even though he's younger them.

Really... well then why did you say this previous...
Original post from bjelks

Lol good one, How do you skip the rest of the 6/8 depth chart? Trapp, Delgado, Acosta, Nagbe, take your pick could easily be left off Morales.

Sorry, but I'm going to call you out. You clearly dont know what you're talking about. Delgado and Nagbe dont play the same position as Morales. CM, yes, but they are not holding or box to box guys. Although Nagbe has played there from time to time, he typically plays further up the field in an attacking role and/or out wide. The same goes for Delgado. They are attacking minded midfielders. Not defensive or box to box.

You weren't bringing those guys up for understanding. You genuinely don't know much about the players you're arguing over.

cudevil
Post #97
Wednesday November 7, 2018 12:38am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 696
Original post from bjelks

I said mls isn't much better than the regionalliga. The fact is there is a much higher likelihood that a teenager in regionalla will become a top league player than a 26 yr old in mls. Now you can believe whatever arena and garber tell you, but neither have won an intl tourney at any level, so I'm not gonna trust them.


Well, ya, because the regionalliga teams are specifically designed to develop young players for their senior teams. But here's the thing, the regionalliga is like an elite AAU basketball team. It's loaded with talented kids, but only a small fraction of them will become elite players or even reach what would generally be considered "full" professional level (call it Championship/Bundes 2 or higher). The guys in the MLS have reached that level already. They are better than the vast majority of regionalliga players, even if they don't have some crazy high ceiling.

Lilshmike
Post #98
Wednesday November 7, 2018 12:58am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 820
Great analogy

bjelks
Post #99
Wednesday November 7, 2018 1:04am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 767
Original post from Lilshmike

I watch an ungodly amount of soccer. The quality of MLS is at least on par with Championship and 2 Bundesliga. If someone feels that MLS is the equivalent of Regionaliga or League One, then they clearly don't watch MLS or those leagues.

Championship is a good measurement in reality. There may be 1 team in MLS each season that could play in the Prem and not get relegated. Theres probably 2-3 who may be good enough to fight for promotion to the Prem. The worst teams in MLS each season are likely as good as Championship bottom feeders/the top League One teams.

Nobody has quoted Arena or Garber. Nobody has even brought up either of their names other than you. Seriously, what are you talking about?

The fact is that there is a higher likelihood of a teenager growing up in the system of their home country and playing for a team in the top division of that country, than a teenager going to a play for a top league in another country when they aren't a domestic player or weren'tbrought up in that system. Not only that, but the league that a player plays in does not by default make them better or worse than a player who plays in another league, simply because that player plays in said league.

Sorry, but you keep picking battles you can't win.


Spoken like a true MLS/ USSF homer. Give me a respected voice by world standards not being paid by mls or USSF that says 1 mls can survive a season in premier league or 3 that could finish top 10 in championship and I'll give you more credibility. Otherwise, you sound like a subjective mls homer, ie drinking the garber/ arena koolaid.
This is backing your argument that because mls regular, Dwyer plays regularly in mls he's better than Sargeant who plays in Regionallia because of mls experience. Your experience in mls has nothing to do with your technical ability and tactical understanding.
If Dwyer was better, he wouldn't be 30+ in mls.

We've seen 3 mls players over the past yr that have chops for intl football, Cannon and Adams are under 20. Steffen is a young keeper. The rest have been avg to trash. Again show me some evidence of someone respected in the football world with no ties to mls that believes mls is that good and you'll have more credibility. Otherwise, it's still a retirement home for formerly good players.
goalsense
bjelks
Post #100
Wednesday November 7, 2018 1:12am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 767
Original post from Lilshmike

Really... well then why did you say this previous...

Sorry, but I'm going to call you out. You clearly dont know what you're talking about. Delgado and Nagbe dont play the same position as Morales. CM, yes, but they are not holding or box to box guys. Although Nagbe has played there from time to time, he typically plays further up the field in an attacking role and/or out wide. The same goes for Delgado. They are attacking minded midfielders. Not defensive or box to box.

You weren't bringing those guys up for understanding. You genuinely don't know much about the players you're arguing over.


For the national team, they've Delgado and nagbe have played 8. You can play them as 10s, but neither are good at picking through balls in the final 3rd, shooting from range or beating defenders in tight spaces. I don't really care what they play in their retirement league because it doesn't translate internationally
goalsense
db707
Post #101
Wednesday November 7, 2018 1:45am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 700
Original post from bjelks

Sonora has been playing 20-30 mins a game all season in a 10 role and he has a skill set no one else in camp has.


You've only seen highlights of Sonora (this has been established) so your expressed opinion of him can't be taken seriously.

bjelks
Post #102
Wednesday November 7, 2018 1:58am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 767
Original post from cudevil

Well, ya, because the regionalliga teams are specifically designed to develop young players for their senior teams. But here's the thing, the regionalliga is like an elite AAU basketball team. It's loaded with talented kids, but only a small fraction of them will become elite players or even reach what would generally be considered "full" professional level (call it Championship/Bundes 2 or higher). The guys in the MLS have reached that level already. They are better than the vast majority of regionalliga players, even if they don't have some crazy high ceiling.


Respectfully, all these regionalliga players are paid pros unlike aau players. I don't have any official numbers but I would think more like half will play Bundesliga, a quarter second division, and the rest will go to a Scandinavian or mls level league. I don't know of a percentage that will never play at least 2nd or 3rd division. So at worst, these guys will Be Scandinavian or mls players by 24 especially guys that are signed to big clubs like Bremen.
goalsense
Know Nothing
Post #103
Wednesday November 7, 2018 2:09am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,439
well against England I would like to see a 3-4-1-2 or a 3-4-3

Steffen
Brooks, CCV, Miazga
Yedlin, McKennie, Adams, Robinson
Pulisic
Weah, Wood

cudevil
Post #104
Wednesday November 7, 2018 2:28am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 696
Original post from bjelks

Respectfully, all these regionalliga players are paid pros unlike aau players. I don't have any official numbers but I would think more like half will play Bundesliga, a quarter second division, and the rest will go to a Scandinavian or mls level league. I don't know of a percentage that will never play at least 2nd or 3rd division. So at worst, these guys will Be Scandinavian or mls players by 24 especially guys that are signed to big clubs like Bremen.


The regionalliga is far closer to semi-pro than the top flights.

And I'd bet lots and lots of money that your numbers are wildly optimistic.

Lilshmike
Post #105
Wednesday November 7, 2018 7:16am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 820
Original post from bjelks

Spoken like a true MLS/ USSF homer. Give me a respected voice by world standards not being paid by mls or USSF that says 1 mls can survive a season in premier league or 3 that could finish top 10 in championship and I'll give you more credibility. Otherwise, you sound like a subjective mls homer, ie drinking the garber/ arena koolaid.
This is backing your argument that because mls regular, Dwyer plays regularly in mls he's better than Sargeant who plays in Regionallia because of mls experience. Your experience in mls has nothing to do with your technical ability and tactical understanding.
If Dwyer was better, he wouldn't be 30+ in mls.

We've seen 3 mls players over the past yr that have chops for intl football, Cannon and Adams are under 20. Steffen is a young keeper. The rest have been avg to trash. Again show me some evidence of someone respected in the football world with no ties to mls that believes mls is that good and you'll have more credibility. Otherwise, it's still a retirement home for formerly good players.
Atlanta would be able to play in the Prem. LAFC, Seattle, FC Dallas, NYCFC, RBNY would all compete in Championship and likely push for top 10. Portland may be able to push, as could SKC potentially. I'd have said Toronto last season, but they've played poor this year.

A number of MLS teams have surprisingly good starting lineups. The problem is that they lack depth because they lack the financial resources to fill out a full squad of higher end players. The salary cap in MLS (at it's current level) doesnt fully allow for this investment in players. Theres other rules in place as well that impact the teams, but that's for another topic.

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