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bjelks
Post #76
Tuesday November 6, 2018 7:47pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 767
We do not value technical creative types
goalsense
db707
Post #77
Tuesday November 6, 2018 7:49pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 700
Original post from Lilshmike

Good points, and it makes sense. Some people don't respond well to logic though.

Apparently, many people feel that in order to "merit" a spot on the national team the only requirements are being young, playing on a youth/reserve team somewhere in Europe, have little to no actual first team professional experience, and have some decent highlights on a random twitter feed or youtube account.


I will say that given some of the benchwarmers (CCV, Moore, even Miazga now, Weah's on a good team but doesn't make the 18) and youth players (De La Torre, Sargent) we did call, it isn't unrealistic to champion Morales or Sonora or EPB or Holmes. But one shouldn't complain about them not being there either, it's not like it's a travesty.

bjelks
Post #78
Tuesday November 6, 2018 7:52pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 767
Original post from Lilshmike

Good points, and it makes sense. Some people don't respond well to logic though.

Apparently, many people feel that in order to "merit" a spot on the national team the only requirements are being young, playing on a youth/reserve team somewhere in Europe, have little to no actual first team professional experience, and have some decent highlights on a random twitter feed or youtube account.


And others feel to merit a spot on national team you need to be a player that's not good enough to play outside of mls lol and have 100 mls appearances because you're damn near 30 lol.
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #79
Tuesday November 6, 2018 7:59pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 820
There really are no egregious exclusions/inclusions. The only thing that seems clear, tbh, is that the USSF is hell bent on promoting Sargent at all costs. I have always said, and will continue to say, he should not be called in ahead of others who are playing and producing in MLS until he can at least make the bench at Bremen.

He has yet to make the bench for Bremen. If he was good enough, he would have at least done that by now, but he hasn't. Again, not saying he isn't talented or doesn't have potential, but come on...

To only call in 2 forwards (Wood and Sargent)... with one of them being a kid who has yet to even make the first team bench for a club in an actual professional game... is pretty lame. Like seriously, thats weak and a slap in the face to a lot of guys. They could have at least called in a 3rd guy like Dwyer, Agudelo, Bunbury, or even Sabbi - guys who are playing regularly at a higher level than the 4th/5th tier in Germany

Know Nothing
Post #80
Tuesday November 6, 2018 8:25pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,439
Original post from cudevil

Roster released:

Goalkeepers (3): Brad Guzan (Atlanta United FC; 59/0), Ethan Horvath (Club Brugge/BEL; 2/0), Zack Steffen (Columbus Crew; 6/0)

Defenders (10): John Brooks (Wolfsburg/GER; 35/3), Reggie Cannon (FC Dallas; 1/0), Cameron Carter-Vickers (Swansea City/WAL; 6/0), Aaron Long (New York Red Bulls; 1/0), Matt Miazga (Nantes/FRA; 10/1), Shaq Moore (Reus Deportiu/ESP; 3/0), Antonee Robinson (Wigan Athletic/ENG; 6/0), Jorge Villafaña (Portland Timbers; 19/0), DeAndre Yedlin (Newcastle United/ENG; 56/0), Walker Zimmerman (LAFC; 3/1)

Midfielders (13): Kellyn Acosta (Colorado Rapids; 21/2), Tyler Adams (New York Red Bulls; 7/1), Luca de la Torre (Fulham/ENG; 1/0), Marky Delgado (Toronto FC/CAN; 5/0), Romain Gall (Malmö/SWE; 0/0), Julian Green (Greuther Fürth/GER; 14/4), Sebastian Lletget (LA Galaxy; 3/1), Weston McKennie (Schalke/GER; 6/1), Darlington Nagbe (Atlanta United FC; 25/1), Christian Pulisic (Borussia Dortmund/GER; 21/9), Kenny Saief (Anderlecht/BEL; 3/0), Wil Trapp (Columbus Crew SC; 9/0), Tim Weah (Paris Saint-Germain/FRA; 7/1)

Forwards (2): Josh Sargent (Werder Bremen/GER; 5/2), Bobby Wood (Hannover 96/GER; 43/13)


Well the England match will be billed as Rooney's farewell match, so why not give him an MLS honor guard to play against. They will probably be giving debut's to a number of players from their U-23 and U-21's and play their reserves so I doubt it will be a very serious match from their prospective.

Looking at our roster and one thing pops out at me...Wil Trapp again? What is the definition of insanity...doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? Have we not seen this movie before? It is a drama that turns into a horror movie. I am sure that he is a nice guy and a sound MLS professional, but he has not shown anything against top competition that would indicate he is nothing more than a solid MLS pro. Even against what will be an England B team he will be out of his depth.

In his place I would have called Morales

blaise213
Post #81
Tuesday November 6, 2018 9:03pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,685
Roster yawn

cudevil
Post #82
Tuesday November 6, 2018 9:10pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 696
Original post from bjelks

Lol good one, How do you skip the rest of the 6/8 depth chart? Trapp, Delgado, Acosta, Nagbe, take your pick could easily be left off Morales.

Long and Zimmerman blah. How old are they? Who is bidding for them?

Sonora again is a young player playing at a higher level than MLS and was the most technical player on his U-20 team. Spotty eh, 20-30 mins a game, wouldn't say that's insignificant, but we do value technical creative types.


Because Morales won't be part of the '22 cycle, and McKinnie/Adams are going to take the lion's share of the minutes. Again, it's a marginal, at absolute best, issue.

Who cares if someone is bidding on them? That's such a dumb argument.

Sonora's minutes have been getting reduced.

cudevil
Post #83
Tuesday November 6, 2018 9:14pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 696
Original post from Know Nothing

Well the England match will be billed as Rooney's farewell match, so why not give him an MLS honor guard to play against. They will probably be giving debut's to a number of players from their U-23 and U-21's and play their reserves so I doubt it will be a very serious match from their prospective.

Looking at our roster and one thing pops out at me...Wil Trapp again? What is the definition of insanity...doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? Have we not seen this movie before? It is a drama that turns into a horror movie. I am sure that he is a nice guy and a sound MLS professional, but he has not shown anything against top competition that would indicate he is nothing more than a solid MLS pro. Even against what will be an England B team he will be out of his depth.

In his place I would have called Morales


With a full strength squad, I think the chances that Trapp starts decrease. Having said that, it's pretty clear that as long as Sarachan is care taker, Trapp is getting called in/getting minutes. So...the definition of insanity would also apply to continued kvetching about Trapp's inclusion.

bjelks
Post #84
Tuesday November 6, 2018 9:48pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 767
Original post from cudevil

Because Morales won't be part of the '22 cycle, and McKinnie/Adams are going to take the lion's share of the minutes. Again, it's a marginal, at absolute best, issue.

Who cares if someone is bidding on them? That's such a dumb argument.

Sonora's minutes have been getting reduced.


It'll be up to the next manager to decide who's in the next cycle. We've recently called up Bradley who's older and plays in a lesser league as well as Lichaj. In this camp, we called Villafana and Nagbe who are older in lesser leagues than Morales. The last WC we played in, our best player was 32.
Trapp and Delgado aren't capable of playing in Bundesliga and getting called over Morales. Acosta also isn't playing at the level of Morales.
There is no logical explanation to not invite him to camp. It's total bs to say if he's not starting, it doesn't matter if he's in camp, when there are 4 OTHER Center mids picked over him. All I know is Morales is Latin and never played in MLS.

Zimmerman and Long are 2 mediocre, low ceiling center backs on the back end of their 20s with that aren't rated by any other league in the world or soccer media outside of US.

Sonora has been playing 20-30 mins a game all season in a 10 role and he has a skill set no one else in camp has.
goalsense
cudevil
Post #85
Tuesday November 6, 2018 10:04pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 696
Original post from bjelks

It'll be up to the next manager to decide who's in the next cycle. We've recently called up Bradley who's older and plays in a lesser league as well as Lichaj. In this camp, we called Villafana and Nagbe who are older in lesser leagues than Morales. The last WC we played in, our best player was 32.
Trapp and Delgado aren't capable of playing in Bundesliga and getting called over Morales. Acosta also isn't playing at the level of Morales.
There is no logical explanation to not invite him to camp. It's total bs to say if he's not starting, it doesn't matter if he's in camp, when there are 4 OTHER Center mids picked over him. All I know is Morales is Latin and never played in MLS.

Zimmerman and Long are 2 mediocre, low ceiling center backs on the back end of their 20s with that aren't rated by any other league in the world or soccer media outside of US.

Sonora has been playing 20-30 mins a game all season in a 10 role and he has a skill set no one else in camp has.


Sonora has played a grand total of 12 minutes in 1 appearance in his last 3 matches, and didn't even make the game day 18 the last time out. I guess his team doesn't value creative players either?

Morales is in the same age range as all the guys you mentioned (other than Bradley, who is clearly getting phased out) and has sucked every time he played for the Nats. He's got not future with the set up, so the lack of inclusion is meaningless to me.

Zimmerman is 25. Long is 26. They both played ok in their appearance with the Nats. You can't tell me that EPB has earned a call up over either.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #86
Tuesday November 6, 2018 10:08pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,802
No matter who is chosen people will always complain. I actially really like this roster. Gall gets a call up, Nagbebis back, Lletget is back. I think Zimmerman is a class Central defender. Pulisic back.

There actually a lot of technical players in this roster: Pulisic, Nagbe, Lletget, Saief, Gall, Sargent, Weah.

Lilshmike
Post #87
Tuesday November 6, 2018 10:15pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 820
@bjelks

Nagbe, Villafaña, Lichaj, and Delgado all play different positions than Morales... so your comparison doesnt exactly work. Not sure why you even brought them up.

Bradley wasn't called in. So what exactly does he have to do with anything?

Playing the race card again with Morales? Seriously dude, just stop it. Villafaña, Delgado, and Acosta are all of Latin american (specifically Mexican) heritage. Making that claim is ignorant when the facts of the program have historically proven, and continue to prove, otherwise.

And if you're going to make a claim for guys to not get called in for playing in lesser quality leagues... but then call for players playing in 2 Bundesliga and youth/reserve team players... then you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

bjelks
Post #88
Tuesday November 6, 2018 10:32pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 767
Original post from cudevil

Sonora has played a grand total of 12 minutes in 1 appearance in his last 3 matches, and didn't even make the game day 18 the last time out. I guess his team doesn't value creative players either?

Morales is in the same age range as all the guys you mentioned (other than Bradley, who is clearly getting phased out) and has sucked every time he played for the Nats. He's got not future with the set up, so the lack of inclusion is meaningless to me.

Zimmerman is 25. Long is 26. They both played ok in their appearance with the Nats. You can't tell me that EPB has earned a call up over either.


Sonora played 22 minutes the last game. You're just making up lies now lol.

Morales is still playing in a top league and is 2 yrs younger than Bradley who hasn't played in a top league in 4 yrs. you're telling me he can't be useful to a team that has guys playing in front of him that may never play a Bundesliga minute. Cut the bs!

If we're building for the future, why are we playing 2 low ceiling defenders over the biggest prospect we have under 23 who plays in a better league right now?
goalsense
bjelks
Post #89
Tuesday November 6, 2018 11:06pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 767
Original post from Lilshmike

@bjelks

Nagbe, Villafaña, Lichaj, and Delgado all play different positions than Morales... so your comparison doesnt exactly work. Not sure why you even brought them up.

Bradley wasn't called in. So what exactly does he have to do with anything?

Playing the race card again with Morales? Seriously dude, just stop it. Villafaña, Delgado, and Acosta are all of Latin american (specifically Mexican) heritage. Making that claim is ignorant when the facts of the program have historically proven, and continue to prove, otherwise.

And if you're going to make a claim for guys to not get called in for playing in lesser quality leagues... but then call for players playing in 2 Bundesliga and youth/reserve team players... then you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.


To reiterate why I brought those guys up for your understanding, it was to give examples of guys that some believe will he aged out that are still being called up when Morales is too old even though he's younger them. Blatant bias against him.

The fact is Acosta, Delgado, Villafana are all Latin with MLS ties. Another example of USSF bias. Thanks for pointing out.

I know who you rate MLS on the same level as Champs League but the fact is it's below Bundes 2 and not much higher than German reserve/ youth such as Werder 23s. In the words of Jermaine Jones, a 25 yr old in MLS is the equivalent of a 20 yr old in Germany. This coming from a player that has played in both leagues.
goalsense
cudevil
Post #90
Tuesday November 6, 2018 11:25pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 696
Original post from bjelks

Sonora played 22 minutes the last game. You're just making up lies now lol.

Morales is still playing in a top league and is 2 yrs younger than Bradley who hasn't played in a top league in 4 yrs. you're telling me he can't be useful to a team that has guys playing in front of him that may never play a Bundesliga minute. Cut the bs!

If we're building for the future, why are we playing 2 low ceiling defenders over the biggest prospect we have under 23 who plays in a better league right now?


According to Tranfermarkt, he wasn't in the squad last game. Not sure why that wasn't accurate.

Don't care about Morales. Don't care about Bradley. Both have no future with the MNT and I don't think either are all that useful. If I'm picking one, I'm picking Bradley. Even now, he's a better player.

And what's your basis for saying that Zimmerman and Long are "low ceiling"? Unless or until you recognize the structural impediments for MLS players to get to Europe, the whole "who is bidding on them" is a fairly meaningless argument.

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