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Know Nothing
Post #31
Monday October 22, 2018 10:07pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,617
I'll agree, Trapp isn't crap. He has good aspects to his game. My concern at the international level is that he is too slow with the ball. He is not going to improve much physically, but if he were to apply himself and go out on an overseas loan, he could improve his speed of play and tactical awareness.

I do think if we continue to seek a true #6 Durkin is one for the argument. It would be interesting to see how he handles an overseas loan or move.

bjelks
Post #32
Monday October 22, 2018 10:17pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,229
@lilshmike you just countered my observations of all the ways Trapp isn't cut for
Intl football by giving me your opinion of how much you like him as a player because he stays in one spot because he can't cover much ground and completes neutral passes lol.

Just admit it, you are will Trapp lol. You comparing Carrick who played for the top
Team in England with someone who can't get more than a million dollar bid from a championship side is a joke.

Again if you want to compare how good he is compared to other guys who play the position, well you have to actually play the other guys lol. And Trapp has done nothing at the natl or club level to prevent Morales from a call up. If D Will is healthy and available, he should be next in the depth chart. If we're talking depth options, we need to see what younger options like Canouse, Durkin, Stanko offer.

Trapp and Bradley are the 2 biggest examples of mls and good ole boy fanboyism in the natl team.
If I was Pulisic and Mckennie, I wouldn't wanna play with his sorry ass either.

Gooch played in the premiership 2 yrs ago and championship last yr. he's take his knocks, but he's more proven, more versatile, younger than Arriola, Delgado, Trapp, Roldan. We're short at winger after Pulisic and we haven't played a better winger than Gooch this fall.

You can push your mls agenda all you want, but I'm gonna continue to call call the bs.

If Ben Sweat has taught you anything, it's that playing 500 mls games doesn't mean you're better than someone fighting for minutes in Europe.
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #33
Monday October 22, 2018 11:38pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,178
@bjelks

Thanks for proving the point that I was trying to make.

@Know Nothing

Solid points and I don't disagree. My main feeling on Trapp is that, considering who we have in our pool, Trapp is a serviceable option and has (IMO) proved that he is good enough to warrant continued consideration for selection moving forward. Not saying that he is a starter or the best 6 we have by any means... but we have to be realistic about where we are and who we have available. At the moment, we don't have many other legitimate options who can play that position or service the role that he fills. I wish things were different, but that's just where we are right now.

As I've stated before on the boards, right now we need to figure out a formation/lineup and style of play. After that, its about rounding out the 23 with depth. McKennie, Adams, and Acosta can all play that role; however, I'm not sure that when all is said and done that they will ultimately in the 6. I see each as an 8. I think Adams will ultimately be moved to an outside back due to his athleticism. Durkin is one to look for the future. I like Canouse. I thought (and to some extent, still think) Kitchen could be an option. Williams is only just coming back from a big injury, so who knows if he will be the same player. Morales may be able to fill in. Outside of that... there really isn't anyone else that either comes to mind or proves (at this point) that they are capable of filling in (other than Bradley). And yes, as much as people don't want to accept it, Bradley is still one of, if not the best, options for us in the 6.

The important thing for me is to differentiate NOW from LATER. Who knows what will happen between now and 2022. Personally, I think its better to make guys compete for their spot instead of handing it to kids who have not proven anything to this point with the blind hope that it somehow helps in their development. Clubs develop players, not exactly national teams. Others may disagree, but I think its important to set a standard where nobody has a set spot instead of one that may foster complacency due to calling in players based on where one THINKS they may end up as opposed to where they CURRENTLY are...

...and full disclosure, I think Bradley should still be in consideration for the USMNT. But I DO NOT think that he should be a consistent starter or selection, and I DO NOT think that he should captain our side again. His time has come, and it has almost gone. There is something to be said about building, and there are a few guys who seem to be regulars moving forward that should be forced to grow up and accept a leadership position and direct us towards qualification...

hamsamwich
Post #34
Tuesday October 23, 2018 2:07am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,143
@bjelks- Arriola and Gooch are both born in 1995.

But for these games, and moving forward- what types of wingers will we have? Pulisic and Amon are the type to dribble at you and make a play (Weah as well to a certain extent although I think he may be more valuable in the box as a forward). Then you have the creative, slower players like Green and Saief. And then there are the more team game full field players (defensive wingers), guys like Gooch and Arriola. They'll give you game understanding, but aren't fast counter attack guys, nor are they 1v1 type wingers.

It's up to Sarachan for November and after that the new coach to decide what types of wingers we want and in what system they are playing.

Dave
Post #35
Tuesday October 23, 2018 2:18am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 996
Original post from Lilshmike

As I've stated before on the boards, right now we need to figure out a formation/lineup and style of play. After that, its about rounding out the 23 with depth.


This is where our focus needs to be. Not having a formation makes it difficult to determine what players/positions are needed. There are formations where a CDM (#6) isn't even required.

Once the coach/manager is appointed and they decide on who our Core players are for this cycle; they'll have to split the balance of the pool into Aging Veterans & Prospects. From there they can decide how to round out the squad....

Core (Players inked into the 23 right now):
Steffen, Brooks, Miazga, Yedlin, McKennie, Adams, Pulisic, Wood

Veterans (Older players who have a role to play right now/Transition players):
Guzan, Bradley, Jozy, Villafana, Chandler, ArJo, Morales or D. Williams (we don't need both)

Prospects (players to be tried until they either prove that they are Core or replaced/overtaken by other prospects):
Keeper: Horvath, Gonzalez, Bono, Hamid
Defense: Robinson, EPB, CCV, Parker, Long, Alverado, Dest, Moore, D. Acosta,
Midfield: K. Acosta, Hyndman, Park, Durkin, Canouse, Roldan
Attackers: Sargent, Sabbi, Scott, Saief, Weah, Gooch, Gall, Green, Tillman, Rubin, Arriola, Amon, Novak, Siebatcheu

However, we need to avoid becoming too tied to "Veterans". We cannot become reliant on this group of players at the expense of the getting "Prospects" experience. Until we get closer to playing a competitive match I'm of the opinion that we should limit the "Veteran" contingent and focus on the "Core" (get them reps with one-another) & "Prospects" (test them to see where they are and how they can help).
Hopefully some of the prospects will prove themselves during the U-23 Olympics.

Lastly there are some players from the last cycle who should not be seen in camp again (Howard, Beasley, Besler, Gonzalez, Zusi, Bedoya, Ream, Lichaj, Diskerud). These guys have been overtaken by players in the "Prospect" pool and serve no purpose anymore.

blaise213
Post #36
Tuesday October 23, 2018 5:25am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,927
The problem is that MLS wants to have the All American poster boy in US Soccer - Will Trapp. Will Trapp is 25 years old and is not improving. He's a 2nd Tier version of Michael Bradley.

MLS is also pushing its bull shit agenda with Acosta and Adams, both are Mediocre..

The inclusion of Sweat and Long was a waste of roster spots. Tim Parker is the only good MLS CB.

As I stated, we need to push for the younger, creative, attacking MLS players because they're not going to be in MLS for long like mid aged mediocre MLS players:

Effrain Alvarez > Roldon, Delgado, Trapp
Ulysses Llanez
Bello
and maybe Carleton but I think he'll have a brek shea career

bjelks
Post #37
Tuesday October 23, 2018 8:40am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,229
I have to disagree about Adams my friend. He is a special talent. He is tied with Mckennie as the best ball winner we have. Both of those guys will be regarded as world class before the age of 23. And I also think that they best serve the US as #6s. I think it's crazy that your some on this thread do not believe best athletes should not be #6s. The World Champs play their best athletes as dual #6s, but we want to play our worst athletes at #6, no wonder we get over run in the middle.
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #38
Tuesday October 23, 2018 11:44am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,178
@Dave

Spot on. That was pretty thorough and well presented.

@blaise213

You've been sipping too much of the koolaid from bjelks, my friend. All-American poster boy, Trapp?? Is this a joke? It's very clear that if ANYONE is the "All-American poster boy" its Pulisic. I'm on a lot of different boards and sites, and legitimately THE ONLY person I have ever seen even make those kind of statements and condescending name calling is bjelks...

If you think that this is what the majority of the US Soccer fanbase and media think and push, then you need to broaden your horizons a bit and see what the world looks like off this site.

Trapp is as controversial as anyone else when it comes to pundits/media. Many think he is decent enough to warrant consideration in the pool, many question if he has the physicality to cut it at the international level. He isn't very tall and isn't exactly known for his strength, speed, or engine. The only people who seem to love him are Sarachan and Berhalter.

I'll agree though in saying that Acosta is only average. Compared to other talents in the world, hes just that. Average. Hes an 8 too IMO, not a 6. Adam's has the potential, but for what he offers in midfield, hes average. That's why I think he will move to outside back. He is very Kimmich-esque. Decent CM, but when put at RB he offers a whole lot more and improves the team more than if he was in CM - because others can play that CM role just as good. It fits a "total football" type of mold.

Effrain Alvarez looks like he might be going nowhere. You've clearly only seen highlights. My money is on him fizzling out and becoming nothing more than a once promising youth player. Hes 16, yeah... but the kid is ballooning. He keeps gaining weight and is getting slower. Have you seen him recently? He has a noticeable gut. It's not good. He was originally out wide but hes moved to the middle. Hes developing into a tubby CAM with slowing pace who has a good shot and decent passing skills. You can find players like that all over the place, they're nothing special. Hopefully he proves me wrong, but at the moment, that seems to be his trajectory...

bjelks
Post #39
Tuesday October 23, 2018 3:21pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,229
Adams is a avg and we have others that can play cm as well as him bahahaha.
I give up. If we cant find a manager that recognizes we need his motor and ball winning in midfield we deserve not to qualify again.
goalsense
hamsamwich
Post #40
Tuesday October 23, 2018 3:22pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,143
Players developed in MLS can't make their moves as easily as you'd think due to the single entity system, for one. Guys like Steffen and Trapp didn't move because MLS (the Crew) didn't like the offer they received. Same with Acosta when he was at Dallas. Either the MLS teams are overvaluing their own guys, or (more likely) these foreign clubs look at the MLS as bargain basement. They use @bjelks and @blaise type logic and say "I won't pay more than X amount of dollars for an American". In a way, it's hard to argue that from both the foreign clubs and MLS perspective. If these players fit in the cap structure why sell if you don't like the offer? Especially when Americans track records overseas are sketchy at best. If you were a technical director would you take that risk??? Now we see the Germans shopping in the youth aisle where they can snap these guys up for nothing, at a younger age. So a lot depends on these guys MLS clubs, and what their motivation is.

If Alvarez is that good, expect him to sign with a foreign club before MLS owns his rights as it's not so easy to get out of MLS once you're in MLS. It's not a black and white thing.

Also, regarding Wil Trapp, he is not the second coming of Bradley, he's the second coming of Beckerman. McKennie is more like Bradley 2.0 with his pass interceptions and all action, "captain-esque" style. Trapp has always been a stationary 6, like Beckerman... Bradley (in his youth, not the worn out older version of today) once scored a lot of goals in one season for Heerenveen as a CAM and he did play the 8 well for the USA. Trapp will be replaced guys don't worry... he now has a body of work to judge. That's the point of calling in these players- some will stick around, some won't. Simple as that.

hamsamwich
Post #41
Tuesday October 23, 2018 3:26pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,143
If Adams is average in midfield let's all go home he's the best we have.

Just like Sargent is the best forward we have @lilshmike...

stone88
Post #42
Tuesday October 23, 2018 3:56pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,513
i agree with blaise on Acosta but not on Adams. I believe Adams is the real deal, and whenever he can jump ship to Europe we'll see his real skill and potential shine through. The guy has an engine and ball winning ability like no other US player. Acosta on the otherhand, is over hyped by MLS IMO. Acosta is good, but isn't going to be the future CM star the USA has been looking for. Acosta is very prone to boneheaded mistakes and holy shit WTF moments! Plus Acosta is already 23, Adams and McKennie are 3 and 4 years younger and already better than him.

Lilshmike
Post #43
Tuesday October 23, 2018 4:21pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,178
Yes, Adams is average... as stated, compared to other talents in the world, Adams very much is average. That's not saying where he will ultimate be when he finishes developing, BUT AT THIS TIME that is where he is relatively speaking when comparing him against other players in the world.

None of our players are world class. None. Pulisic is the closest we have at the moment, and even he is a few steps away from being world class. Compared to everyone else in the world, Pulisic is a good player who seems like he could be capable of being a world class talent one day. Today, he isn't there. Nor is Adams.

To think any of our players are anywhere near that level is fantasy. Truly, it is. And to think that within 2-3 years that Adams or McKennie will be world class is outrageously optimistic at best. Making that claim is legitimately the definition of being a "US Soccer fanboy". Those guys are some of the best options that we have at the moment... but they aren't world class and they are average with respect to other professionals and nations from around the world.

And no, Sargent is not our best striker right now. One of our best prospects, yes. But if he was as good as everyone on here thinks, he wouldnt be with the reserves at Bremen. It's really that simple. He would be starting, their 1st off the bench option, or at least be making the bench. He has yet to accomplish any of that. Bremen have 4 strikers ahead of him at the moment, and one of them is a USMNT eligible player. That really says it all...

Know Nothing
Post #44
Tuesday October 23, 2018 4:47pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,617
Queue picture of Jeff Spicoli

Harsh Bud Dude

Lilshmike
Post #45
Tuesday October 23, 2018 5:00pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,178


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