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navi8132
New York
Post #316
Wednesday November 21, 2018 1:44am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 3,011
There is going to be an embarrassing major story about WHY it took so long to hire the coach, count on it being absurd and beyond incompetent.

EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #317
Wednesday November 21, 2018 9:15am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,013
Original post from cudevil

Why Lletget slowed that play, I will never understand.


I screamed at the TV. They had the numbers and Seb just stopped my goodness wtf was that?

Congrats to Sarachan playing a midfield of Acosta Delgado and Adams. No redundancy there Dave. Thanks for nothing you goddamn idiot. He was put in a tough spot but my goodness dude doesnt help himself with his zero tactical nous.

Know Nothing
Post #318
Wednesday November 21, 2018 2:07pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,476
This quote from Sarachan in espn article by jeff carlisle pretty much summed up the ineptitude for me...

"I feel, as the leader over the last 12 months of this program, I feel that we have moved it forward," he said. "It may not look like that to everyone on the outside, but if you look at the games we have played and the players we have exposed to this level, that we brought forth, I am certain it will pay dividends down the line. So for me, I feel like the next person that comes in is going to have a good starting point."

A good starting point? The next manager will probably look like a genius.

This made me shake my head and worry for the future

"Yes, it's about competing. Yes, it's about defending. But we can't defend every game for 90 minutes," Trapp said. "The point that was brought up [in the locker room] was, the talent is there. It's just having a culture of confidence that we can step on the field and play alongside these teams. That's the difference, I think, in terms of what Italy was able to do tonight and what we weren't able to do."

Have they deluded themselves that we are closer than we think?

I will say Carlisle hit it on the head though...

But players such as Adams, McKennie and Horvath are in line with what the U.S. has produced in the past. The reality is there are simply not enough players who show the requisite comfort on the ball needed to keep possession and compete with the world's better teams, never mind the best. That was evident once again against Italy.

Sure, he gave 23 players their debuts. Most deserved a look, but more could have been done. If he is going to hang his hat on exposing players to the level, why not a debut for Kyle Scott or more of an audition for Parks instead of retreads like Delgado and Roldan? We are trying to make a poster boy out of Wil Trapp who at his best is nothing more than a solid professional while shunning untapped talents that have come through acclaimed academies or, at the very least, fostering the development of Adams and McKennie together.

cudevil
Post #319
Wednesday November 21, 2018 2:35pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 705
Sarachan's best match was probably his first (?) against Portugal. The second to last was his worst, and the Italy match was up there amongst the worst. But sure, Dave, you moved things forward.

bjelks
Post #320
Wednesday November 21, 2018 2:52pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 796
The big problem with Dave's tenure is that if the next manager or the GM says some bullshit like we can't bring in Akale, Scott, Morales, Durkin, Somora, Holmes, Parks, Canouse, Parks, Gooch etc because they haven't gelled with the team or "this isn't the time to experiment".
Dave spent a whole yr building around Will Trapp who isn't better than Morales, Canouse, Durkin at DM and is the biggest liability on the field every time he plays.
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #321
Wednesday November 21, 2018 4:11pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 870
Original post from 2tone

So Julen lupitigui inquired about the US head coaching vacancy and USSF said no thanks. Uhm, what the hell!?!? That dude is a talented coach.
They should have said no thanks.

Do you realize how many coaches have used our national team as an attempt to promote themselves? Blanc, Allardyce, Moyes, Lopetegui, Herrera, etc. If we bend to each "talented"/foreign coach and kiss the ground they walk on then it makes us look like a joke and we won't be taken seriously.

He got fired and is trying to remain relevant in the short term so he can land another gig. Sorry, but I think the USSF did the right thing. You don't go through an entire process just to stop and hit reverse right before the finish line. And in reality, I'm sure that USSF already have the manager but are just negotiating terms of the contract, waiting until every T is crossed and I is dotted before formally announcing anything. That is standard operating procedure, not incompetence.

USAfan67
Los Angeles
Post #322
Wednesday November 21, 2018 9:59pm

Joined Sep 2015
Total Posts: 14
Original post from bjelks

The big problem with Dave's tenure is that if the next manager or the GM says some bullshit like we can't bring in Akale, Scott, Morales, Durkin, Somora, Holmes, Parks, Canouse, Parks, Gooch etc because they haven't gelled with the team or "this isn't the time to experiment".
Dave spent a whole yr building around Will Trapp who isn't better than Morales, Canouse, Durkin at DM and is the biggest liability on the field every time he plays.


Funny thing that how bad this USSF and ex players that they don't even know anything about this players you just mention. Like Marcelo Balboa was a commentator for Univision Sport and he was saying that all that USA has in the middle position are number 8 position or maybe 7 but we don't have any who play the 6 position. that Nagbe could be a good 6.. That's what Balboa was saying. But the real thing is that noone are aware of playing aboard or player that are coming up from the Youth System. SAD JUST SAD
USAfan67
skangles
DC
Post #323
Wednesday November 21, 2018 10:29pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,392
I am late watching the game and Yowzers! I used to count down the days until the next MnT game but I had to force myself to watch that.

The one and only positive was that it was nice to see Horvath have a good game. Man of the Match by default.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #324
Wednesday November 21, 2018 10:40pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,840
It can get any worse than 2018. It can only go up from here. My expectations of this team are not high. That won't change until I see some real progression the next year.

Know Nothing
Post #325
Friday November 23, 2018 3:54am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,476
Original post from 2tone

It can get any worse than 2018. It can only go up from here. My expectations of this team are not high. That won't change until I see some real progression the next year.


You would think, and I am optimistic as well. But it certainly can get worse from here.

Let's say Berhalter is selected. Every coach has a player they are loyal to and given his "success" with Wil Trapp he decides to build the midfield around him and continue him as captain. Results don't go his way and players start to rail against him because Trapp is expected to lead this team and isn't capable of holding a spot on it. The team divides into a bunch of cliques.

I know it is very far fetched, but it has happened before.

db707
Post #326
Friday November 23, 2018 12:10pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 723
Original post from bjelks

The big problem with Dave's tenure is that if the next manager or the GM says some bullshit like we can't bring in Akale, Scott, Morales, Durkin, Somora, Holmes, Parks, Canouse, Parks, Gooch etc because they haven't gelled with the team or "this isn't the time to experiment".
Dave spent a whole yr building around Will Trapp who isn't better than Morales, Canouse, Durkin at DM and is the biggest liability on the field every time he plays.


Parks is a reserve team player (and you listed him twice). Akale also in the reserves. I'm a Holmes fan and he's not really played enough with Derby to be considered. You just throw out there names of alternative guys you've not seen play, typical.

Know Nothing
Post #327
Friday November 23, 2018 2:21pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,476
Original post from db707

Parks is a reserve team player (and you listed him twice). Akale also in the reserves. I'm a Holmes fan and he's not really played enough with Derby to be considered. You just throw out there names of alternative guys you've not seen play, typical.


If we are in an evaluation stage and playing time is a criteria, why have we given minutes to Olasunde and Sargent who have not played first team minutes? All the players you mention train with their first teams on a daily basis...teams that would wipe the floor with ANY MLS team. And yet we continue to give run outs to the likes of Delagado, Roldan, and Trapp...alll servicable professionals and yet none of them are anything special.

If we are in an evaluation stage, why have we not cast a wider net?

And, tell me we couldn't use a player like this...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsTB-UpXoAEzOb7.jpg

Lilshmike
Post #328
Friday November 23, 2018 3:03pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 870
Original post from Know Nothing

If we are in an evaluation stage and playing time is a criteria, why have we given minutes to Olasunde and Sargent who have not played first team minutes? All the players you mention train with their first teams on a daily basis...teams that would wipe the floor with ANY MLS team. And yet we continue to give run outs to the likes of Delagado, Roldan, and Trapp...alll servicable professionals and yet none of them are anything special.

If we are in an evaluation stage, why have we not cast a wider net?

And, tell me we couldn't use a player like this...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsTB-UpXoAEzOb7.jpg
The guys you mentioned should not have been called in until they crack their first team.

Also, just because some random guy on Twitter compares Scott to de Jong doesn't mean anything. Fake news.

And here's a hot take... if we keep giving call ups to reserve team players and youth kids who haven't really done or proven anything, then how does that drive them to continue to succeed in their profession? If they're not playing for the first team, playing against 4th and 5th tier competition, or backups who aren't getting regular minutes at the senior level of a competitive club, how does that set the tone for our program and keep them hungry to get better and push themselves?

If playing in the reserves is good enough to get a call to the national team, a lot of guys will likely float around that level because it will be good enough. This isn't fantasy, this is reality, and factors of organizational behavior are at play here. We dont want that. We dont want a team of reserves playing for the national team. Instead, we should be setting the tone that you will get called up if you are good enough, service a need, and are playing regularly for your club.

If these kids and reserves are good enough, we should challenge them to go somewhere and prove it. If they're not getting minutes at their clubs and are sitting in the reserves, we should push them to go somewhere and prove it in order to get a call - not tell them that being in the reserves is good enough and that they have talent and are better than MLS counterparts simply because they are in Europe.

That is dumb. That is poor management. That does not shape behavior in a positive way. Do you want to progress, or regress?

db707
Post #329
Friday November 23, 2018 4:07pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 723
Original post from Lilshmike

The guys you mentioned should not have been called in until they crack their first team.

Also, just because some random guy on Twitter compares Scott to de Jong doesn't mean anything. Fake news.

And here's a hot take... if we keep giving call ups to reserve team players and youth kids who haven't really done or proven anything, then how does that drive them to continue to succeed in their profession? If they're not playing for the first team, playing against 4th and 5th tier competition, or backups who aren't getting regular minutes at the senior level of a competitive club, how does that set the tone for our program and keep them hungry to get better and push themselves?

If playing in the reserves is good enough to get a call to the national team, a lot of guys will likely float around that level because it will be good enough. This isn't fantasy, this is reality, and factors of organizational behavior are at play here. We dont want that. We dont want a team of reserves playing for the national team. Instead, we should be setting the tone that you will get called up if you are good enough, service a need, and are playing regularly for your club.

If these kids and reserves are good enough, we should challenge them to go somewhere and prove it. If they're not getting minutes at their clubs and are sitting in the reserves, we should push them to go somewhere and prove it in order to get a call - not tell them that being in the reserves is good enough and that they have talent and are better than MLS counterparts simply because they are in Europe.

That is dumb. That is poor management. That does not shape behavior in a positive way. Do you want to progress, or regress?


Nail on the head.

Know Nothing
Post #330
Friday November 23, 2018 4:26pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,476
Original post from Lilshmike

The guys you mentioned should not have been called in until they crack their first team.

Also, just because some random guy on Twitter compares Scott to de Jong doesn't mean anything. Fake news.

And here's a hot take... if we keep giving call ups to reserve team players and youth kids who haven't really done or proven anything, then how does that drive them to continue to succeed in their profession? If they're not playing for the first team, playing against 4th and 5th tier competition, or backups who aren't getting regular minutes at the senior level of a competitive club, how does that set the tone for our program and keep them hungry to get better and push themselves?

If playing in the reserves is good enough to get a call to the national team, a lot of guys will likely float around that level because it will be good enough. This isn't fantasy, this is reality, and factors of organizational behavior are at play here. We dont want that. We dont want a team of reserves playing for the national team. Instead, we should be setting the tone that you will get called up if you are good enough, service a need, and are playing regularly for your club.

If these kids and reserves are good enough, we should challenge them to go somewhere and prove it. If they're not getting minutes at their clubs and are sitting in the reserves, we should push them to go somewhere and prove it in order to get a call - not tell them that being in the reserves is good enough and that they have talent and are better than MLS counterparts simply because they are in Europe.

That is dumb. That is poor management. That does not shape behavior in a positive way. Do you want to progress, or regress?


Sorry, still don't see it. While you lay out an argument well, it proves nothing and quite frankly is a farce. Your argument seems to that playing for the national team is the pinnacle of a players career. If that was the ultimate goal, why would anyone go overseas to train?

You talk about competitive drive...the need to improve. For Parks, Akale, Holmes and Scott, they need to be good week in week out or they will be passed by by someone younger and hungrier and will ride the pine in the reserves and will cease to train with the first team. Getting a call to the national team for these guys would be just another accomplishment while the goal will ultimately be a spot on the first team. That is what drives them and what should drive them.

While we are talking about motivation and complacency...where is the motivation for MLS players to improve? Salary cap restrictions stagnate teams to the point where there is little competition for places so a player can coast at a certain level and get by. Players used to playing at a certain level will have difficulty rising to the next one. At least these "reserve" players are exposed to a higher level with their teams so they know what they must do to reach that next level and if they do not they know the consequences. What are the consequences for the aforementioned MLS players if they have a drop in form?

Trapp, Delgado, and Roldan have their places cemented in their teams and yet they are lacking at the international level. They may be hungry to make it to the next level, but nobody is knocking down the door to offer them the chance and they will never get that playing in MLS.

Here is a hot take for you...calling in these players may force the likes of Delgado, Trapp, and Roldan to realize they have competition in the wings so they had better get their act together and improve. Motivation works both ways and in this respect is much healthier for the USMNT because it will be about talent and not the fact they are playing first team minutes.

I have not called for any of these players to be regulars, just to have them called in to give them the same opportunities given to players I perceive to be their inferiors. If the goal is just to qualify for the World Cup, then by all means keep doing things the way we have and may have a decent shot at making that happen. If the goal is to win a World Cup, then we need to do more and identify ANY player that can help.

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