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hamsamwich
Post #16
Sunday October 21, 2018 3:16pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,984
Original post from db707

blaise, I swear one of these days one of your bizarre rosters is going to include a dead guy, like in Major League.
Bradley is dead, at least his legs. @Blaise doesn't pick him.

bjelks
Post #17
Sunday October 21, 2018 4:13pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,086
Moore hasn't shown poorly in any of his appearances. He's still a young player that has recent La Liga experience and has been a 90 minute starter for his La Liga 2 club over the last month.

Lichaj was poor and a step slow in his last nat appearance. He's also on the downside of his career.

So my justification for picking Moore is not only more upside but more talent right now than Lichaj.

Now if we wanna talk about tiers, Delgado, Trapp, Sweat are all 3rd tier players who aren't getting any better who have been getting consistent callups and time with nats lately. Bradley is a 3rd tier player we just called back lol.
goalsense
db707
Post #18
Sunday October 21, 2018 6:45pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 837
LOL, hamsamwich. Well played.

Still with the blind MLS hate, bjelks. Moore's looked like a project at best. Not ready for the full national team. And by the way he was an unused sub today.

blaise213
Post #19
Sunday October 21, 2018 7:38pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,815
Original post from Lilshmike

Or a guy who hasn't played since August and is sidelined for the next 4-5 months after having knee surgery...

Hard to play when you have a torn ACL. Makes me wonder if many of the guys on this site actually know anything about the players they call for...


Whose got the torn ACL ?

My boy Jimmy Garappolo does !

bjelks
Post #20
Sunday October 21, 2018 11:38pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,086
@db707 if Delgado, Trapp, Sweat ever go on to be a regulars in championship or another 2nd tier league in Europe, I'll lay off how trash they are but until they can prove they're good enough to play outside America by world standards, we have no evidence they are not trash.
And none of them have proved that they can impact an intl game.
goalsense
stoked3
Ft Lauderdale, FL
Post #21
Monday October 22, 2018 3:30am

Joined Oct 2014
Total Posts: 277
Original post from db707

I disagree that we need to be giving guys time on the full national team based on age and potential. If it's a guy who's about to break through (like Sargent) or has just broken through with a top league club, there's an argument. But guys like CCV and Moore are loanees in second tier leagues who aren't even consistent starters there. I'm not picking a second tier benchwarmer over a top tier starter just because the benchwarmer is younger and might be good down the line.


I get your point. We need all of US soccer to be better talent evaluators though. Last game we had a guy, sweat, who starts week in and out in mls, and i saw it written he is one of the better defenders this yr in MLS. I was embarrassed for the guy, it was awful-It was easy to see he was no where ready for international play but yet he plays more than CCV/Moore and he is older than both. If I was coach ZERO chance Sweat would be called again, we saw enough-he will not progress to International level.

Im not an MLS hater but just saying we need to recognize whom we think, based on their current level/age, is capable of progressing enough to me in our 23. For example: that Cannon kid-he looks like someone who should get more looks. I thought he played really well, wasn't intimidated etc

Another example was Wondo and Green last world cup. Wondo starts every game, is always at the top of the scoring for MLS. Green was playing in lower level Germany and not consistently. J.K saw talent in the kid and I guess merritt in Wondo as well.
Green scores on an audacious 1st touch in a world cup, Wondo misses a sitter in front of goal.

I really do get what your saying I just do not think we can have a hard an fast rule given the state of our program on who gets called in based on most playing time. Now, if we start building depth then i would agree with your statement.

Just so I do not get labeled a MLS hater. I would bring in Cannon over Eric L, I would rather see Parker than Ream, there was some young d-back I saw play Im drawing a blank on name but I thought looked really good.

For me to play guys now, in meaningless friendlies, who will not be there for us in 2022 is not prudent. Once we get to qualifying my opionion on the above changes and you call in the guys who are playing the best.
Stoked
db707
Post #22
Monday October 22, 2018 6:19am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 837
Fair points, stoked3, one thing I would say is we have no idea with December 2022 being so far away who will be there for us in 2022. Around this time in 2014 we could have been seeing Will Packwood regularly, and he was done by the time 2018 rolled around. In late 2010 we did cap Gale Agbossoumonde, who became a USL journeyman, done at 26. Guys get seriously hurt, other guys just don't pan out.

Lilshmike
Post #23
Monday October 22, 2018 7:05am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,068
Original post from bjelks

@db707 if Delgado, Trapp, Sweat ever go on to be a regulars in championship or another 2nd tier league in Europe, I'll lay off how trash they are but until they can prove they're good enough to play outside America by world standards, we have no evidence they are not trash.
And none of them have proved that they can impact an intl game.
Trapp had a bid put in for him from the Championship that was rejected. I mean... that's proof that hes wanted outside of MLS...

There is more that goes into getting to Europe, especially England, than you may like to think.

blaise213
Post #24
Monday October 22, 2018 7:14am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,815
I get that people like to debate facts but the fact is Will Trapp sucks

Lilshmike
Post #25
Monday October 22, 2018 7:27am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,068
Also, stoked3, let's not forget the real reason that Wondo and Green were there. It wasnt due to scouting potential up and coming players. Its was all but known (but not publicly said) that JK promised Green that he would bring him to the WC if he switched from Germany to the USA. That rumor came out well before Green even filed his switch that JK made the deal with Greens dad/family. He had no business being called in ahead of anyone else, namely Donovan. His goal was lucky too. He mis-hit the volley, and just so happened to have it perfectly go to the top corner.

I know guys who took place in the camp at Stanford, both players and coaches. JK is a noted stat freak, taking record of each scrimmage, mini game, and drill result and analyzing the group of players against those results. At the camp, of every single person, Donovan finished dead last with respect to win rate and success - meaning that the teams he played on were typically on the losing end. Wondo on the other hand, finished at the upper end of the win rate. Idk who all Landon played with in those scrimmages and games, and I'm not making any excuses for him, but that's the justification that Klinsmann used when telling him he wasnt selected. That's also the same justification used when selecting Wondo. In reality, JK was trying to make an example of Donovan and had a personal relationship dating back to his days at Bayern that was noted as being sour... Plus, Johannsson was ahead of Wondo in the pecking order at the WC. What are the odds that you'll need to use your 4th string striker? VERY slim. Just so happened that Jozy pulled a hammy in the first game and Johannsson broke his ankle right before the WC - then re-aggravated it in the first game when he came on. That entire thing was legit a series of unfortunate events. Had those things not occurred, Wondo likely wouldn't have seen the field.

Also, fun fact, it was at that camp where JK found Jordan Morris, because the Stanford mens team stuck around after classes finished up and scrimmaged and played with the USMNT to give them added numbers in camp.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #26
Monday October 22, 2018 5:57pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,178
Original post from blaise213

I get that people like to debate facts but the fact is Will Trapp sucks
I don't think he sucks. He is a serviceable option going forward. But in saying that I would like to see Canouse brought in to play the 6 at some point.

bjelks
Post #27
Monday October 22, 2018 6:44pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,086
By international standards, Trapp sucks.
He gets abused 1v1.
He gets blown by on counters.
He gets bullied in duals.
When pressured, he either loses or makes a neutral pass.
He offers nothing in the attack and he's not good at defending, so he's not useful at the intl level.
A mid table championship team offered Trapp a million dollars to compete for a spot. They would've offered more, but don't value him higher. That doesn't tell me he can cut it as a regular even at the championship level.

Bring on Canouse, bring on Durkin, bring on anybody. Just not him.
goalsense
camparkinson
Post #28
Monday October 22, 2018 6:57pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 299
I wanna see 4231 with McKinnie and Adams in the double pivot... Trapp shouldn't be in games where defense needs to be played... he can play a single CDM in games again CONCACAF minnows maybe... Unfortunately we likely won't see Adams for the next round of friendlies.

I'm also getting pretty tired of Yedlin, I Can't believe it's happened but he seems old and bad now, he can run but he can't cross, can't defend 1v1 and gets caught out of position constantly. Of course we don't have a clear better option but he's worrying me. Lets see more Cannon also would like to see Nick Lima get a chance but that won't happen until January probably.

Can we be done with Ben Sweat... there's gotta be better younger options... even giving Bello a look seems more exciting than an older guy making horrible mistakes.

Robinson, Brooks, Miazga, Yedlin is probably still our best back 4, unfortunate we seem to have quality CB backups but no depth at outside back.

I love Sargent, I'm ready to give him as much playing time as he can take... he looks so fantastic and does so many fantastic little things every game.

my lineup right now:

-------Sargent--------
Amon----Pulisic------Weah
-----McKinnie--Adams----
Robinson--Brooks-Miazg-Yedlin
---------Steffan-------

Lilshmike
Post #29
Monday October 22, 2018 8:16pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,068
Original post from bjelks

By international standards, Trapp sucks.
He gets abused 1v1.
He gets blown by on counters.
He gets bullied in duals.
When pressured, he either loses or makes a neutral pass.
He offers nothing in the attack and he's not good at defending, so he's not useful at the intl level.
A mid table championship team offered Trapp a million dollars to compete for a spot. They would've offered more, but don't value him higher. That doesn't tell me he can cut it as a regular even at the championship level.

Bring on Canouse, bring on Durkin, bring on anybody. Just not him.
Canouse? By your standards, shouldn't he be washed up? He left 2 Bundesliga for the MLS - clearly a demonstration of his limited skillset and weak mentality. Why the change of heart?

Honestly though, I have to disagree on Trapp... and I'm going to call you out. You're making claims that are completely subjective and, if challenged, you will not be able to back up with any type of legitimate analysis or fact.

Now I'm not a Trapp defender by any means, but he's much better than he gets credit. Anyone who makes claims about what he offers in attack clearly lacks an understanding of the position and role that he occupies. Just using this as a reference point, but Trapp (and Bradley for that matter) occupy the same type of position and role as Carrick did. Many thought he was trash and had no business being in the United squad towards the end of Ferguson's tenure and after Fergie retired. It wasn't until later on at the end of Carrick's career when people (armchair analysts and fans who mostly never played at any competitive level) realized that he played a vital role in keeping possession and serving as the reference point for when the ball moved from the defense to the midfield - and that only came after pundits began running statistics on passing percentage, possession stats, and the like from when he was in the squad vs when he was out so they could have something to talk about. Americans love random statistics!

You knock him for having a bid rejected from a low-level Championship team, yet call for guys in League One to get a look? I mean... I can't be the only one who thinks these arguments/claims are contradictory, hypocritical, and often times outright ridiculous.

Lilshmike
Post #30
Monday October 22, 2018 8:19pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,068
I'll also add that blaise makes some pretty out there calls - but at least he (I'm assuming you're a he?) is a good sport about it and has a good sense of humor. bjelks on the other hand, makes personal attacks and derives it all down to "little American mentality" and "MLS fanboys". Oh right, and racism.

Come on now...

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