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Lilshmike
Post #211
Friday October 12, 2018 9:31pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,224
Original post from blaise213

Once again we got smoked because 2 MLS players were controlling the midfield....

Bradley's dumb ass got burnt on one of the goals
We also had Bundesliga and Ligue 1 CBs out of position to allow for the counter attack, Championship and Premier League outside backs who failed to slow down the counter, and 2 MLS CMs who had to track back and cover for the mistakes/positioning of 4 defenders who ultimately got beat.

That goal was not on Bradley. It was not on "MLS players controlling the midfield". That goal was poor collectively. There was plenty of blame to go around.

Lilshmike
Post #212
Friday October 12, 2018 9:39pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,224
Honestly, I'm not trying to be a huge Bradley defender or anything of the sort. But its getting ridiculous seeing all the hate that he gets.

Pinning Bradley as the scapegoat of our failure to make the WC is ignorant. Singling him out at the cause for a goal, when granted yes he should have done better... but it should have never even gotten to him in the first place after 4 other people made mistakes... is also ignorant.

As I have said, and will continue to say, he is still one of our best CMs. Truly, he is. And if there was a competitive game tomorrow, not saying he would start, but 100% he would be in the 23. Not only that, but he could possibly still be around and may still be one of the better options we have depending on our needs in 2022... so its dumb and ignorant to completely write him off at this point.

I wish we were not at this point, but sadly we are. We don't have enough better players yet. And its not about having a bunch of creative, attacking, playmakers. You need role players. Guys that fill a specific spot and void. Bradley definitely does that with respect to CDM. Others can too, not disagreeing. But you need options and depth. He provides that.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #213
Friday October 12, 2018 9:53pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,387
Not tacking Falcao properly was on Bradley.

Lilshmike
Post #214
Friday October 12, 2018 10:00pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,224
Falcao ran behind Bradley, between him and Delgado. Bradley lost his mark of him because he stepped towards Quintero... when he was goal side of Falcao and should have marked Falcao...

There was legitimately nothing to properly tackle for Bradley... not sure what you are talking about. Here is the highlight. Highlight starts at 1:15.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce9vf9MP4x8

Please elaborate on how Bradley didn't tackle properly?

Lilshmike
Post #215
Friday October 12, 2018 10:02pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,224
Also, I mis-referenced the Falcao goal as the goal that Steffen could have saved. I was instead referring to the Bacca goal.

Not only that, but on the Falcao goal, Yedlin was also out of position... but I'm not surprised given that Robinson was the other man back and he was having a hard time keeping up last night.

BG6
Post #216
Friday October 12, 2018 10:13pm

Joined May 2014
Total Posts: 88
Disagreeing with a subjective analysis on a play a game or a player does not make one ignorant

Speed Elf
El Paso
Post #217
Friday October 12, 2018 10:13pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 333
@Lilshmike , sorry I was at the game and Bradley really did nothing to keep the attack going in midfield during the game. It was more slow it down when we had the opportunity to use the little speed we had on the wings in Green and Weah to get pass the Colombian defense. Yes Green is not the fastest, however, he did show enough technical ability to get past the initial defender and keep the attack flowing. On the Falco goal I will agree with you. However, on the James' goal IMO he should have done better to close him in case James cutback to the middle while allowing Antonee to pass by him.
Bradley is CLEARLY DONE at the International level. HE IS A SQUAD PLAYER at best going forward. And not for much longer. His play, live and in person, showed that.
Go HABS
Lilshmike
Post #218
Friday October 12, 2018 10:30pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,224
Original post from Speed Elf

@Lilshmike , sorry I was at the game and Bradley really did nothing to keep the attack going in midfield during the game. It was more slow it down when we had the opportunity to use the little speed we had on the wings in Green and Weah to get pass the Colombian defense. Yes Green is not the fastest, however, he did show enough technical ability to get past the initial defender and keep the attack flowing. On the Falco goal I will agree with you. However, on the James' goal IMO he should have done better to close him in case James cutback to the middle while allowing Antonee to pass by him.
Bradley is CLEARLY DONE at the International level. HE IS A SQUAD PLAYER at best going forward. And not for much longer. His play, live and in person, showed that.
I never made a claim that he did anything for the attack. He linked play from the backs to the mids (Acosta, Green, and Saief mainly), and sat back to defend. I don't disagree with your other points. But the blame does not fall solely at his feet - others were involved in those, and had they done their jobs, Bradley would have been a non-factor in them. Singling him out on the Falcao goal, and that silky James goal, its reaching for low hanging fruit.

I wholeheartedly disagree about Bradley with the USMNT though. Bradley was better than Trapp, and is still better than any CDM not named McKennie. I don't count Acosta as a CDM, I see him as more box to box. Unfortunately Adams is not as good as Bradley yet. Yes, he is way more athletic (which counts for a lot) and has way more potential/upside - but I genuinely don't know if we will see Adams playing CM once he moves to Europe. I think he will move to an outside back position. Williams may not be the same player he was once he actually gets back and playing from his knee injury - so one could make the argument for or against him. Morales could make a strong argument, but until he gets back into the USMNT (where he has historically under performed), he is still behind Bradley.

Again, not saying he should be a starter or is our best. He is definitrely on the decline. But it is foolish to write him off yet because we are 1 or 2 injuries/positional changes away from him being in the picture in 2022 (assuming he is still playing). Thats the reality of the situation until we have more/better players emerge.

Lilshmike
Post #219
Friday October 12, 2018 10:49pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,224
Original post from BG6

Disagreeing with a subjective analysis on a play a game or a player does not make one ignorant
Fair point, and I don't disagree.

But pinning a goal on a single player, when multiple people were very clearly at fault, is pretty ignorant and its reaching for low hanging fruit. And it wasn't subjective. Check the highlight of the Falcao goal. That was a collective mistake, not due to the error of any single player (Bradley). Multiple people could have done better and done something to prevent it. Thats the fair and honest truth.

People can argue for or against Bradley being included. But I still stand by the statement that its ignorant to completely write him off at this point. I'm not advocating him being called in every time. I'm not advocating for him to start or be captain. I don't think he should be captain, and personally I really don't think hes all that great. I always thought he was overrated.

However, if we are looking towards 2022, we need to be realistic about who in the current player pool may or may not be around and where they might be. At the moment, thats very fuzzy and not clear. So as a result, writing anyone off who may be in the picture is dumb. And unfortunately, he is still one of our better options. I wish thats not where we were at the moment, but its true until other players emerge and prove it otherwise.

bjelks
Post #220
Saturday October 13, 2018 12:13am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,291
Bradley to be a cdm is a complete defensive liability. He is too slow for this level.
Bradley has been trash the last 4 yrs and surely didn't earn this call up. Arena intentionally snubbed players playing at a higher level to try to prove a pt that America's great hope can play in MLS and still be impactful internationally and he failed with flying colors. Arena picked a team and formation around Bradley and that is why we can place the blame on Bradley.
To continue to go out of your way to defend a player, that left Europe in the prime of his career to chase an easy check and coast out his career is a joke and it's everything that's wrong with US Soccer.
And to say until Morales may be better, but he needs to get called to prove it is some straight BS. You mean to tell me Morales won't be better until our mls biased tool of a coach calls him to prove it is straight ridiculous. That's the most fanboy crap I've ever heard on this page.
goalsense
BG6
Post #221
Saturday October 13, 2018 12:40am

Joined May 2014
Total Posts: 88
Ok got it mike . You agree that reasonable people can disagree when it comes to opinions on players and events unless they disagree with you and then they are ingnorant dumb stupid etc.

Lilshmike
Post #222
Saturday October 13, 2018 2:49am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,224
Original post from BG6

Ok got it mike . You agree that reasonable people can disagree when it comes to opinions on players and events unless they disagree with you and then they are ingnorant dumb stupid etc.
No, not really. You can disagree all you want and have your own opinions. It's nothing personal. But my opinion is that its ignorant to place blame for that one goal entirely on him when multiple players were involved and made mistakes... It's also my opinion that's its dumb to completely write him off when it's entirely possible that he is still playing in 2022 and (based on the players available in our pool) could potentially be in the conversation for one of the last tickets to Qatar. I hate using this example... but think of Marquez with Mexico this past WC. The GK for Egypt. Veron or Palermo with Argentina in 2010. Yeah, understandably you can split hairs over those examples or make arguments for/against, but you get the point.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and that's mine. And IMO, that's the reality of where we are with US soccer at the moment.

Lilshmike
Post #223
Saturday October 13, 2018 3:32am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,224
Original post from bjelks

Bradley to be a cdm is a complete defensive liability. He is too slow for this level.
Bradley has been trash the last 4 yrs and surely didn't earn this call up. Arena intentionally snubbed players playing at a higher level to try to prove a pt that America's great hope can play in MLS and still be impactful internationally and he failed with flying colors. Arena picked a team and formation around Bradley and that is why we can place the blame on Bradley.
To continue to go out of your way to defend a player, that left Europe in the prime of his career to chase an easy check and coast out his career is a joke and it's everything that's wrong with US Soccer.
And to say until Morales may be better, but he needs to get called to prove it is some straight BS. You mean to tell me Morales won't be better until our mls biased tool of a coach calls him to prove it is straight ridiculous. That's the most fanboy crap I've ever heard on this page.
Dude, you dont get it. It's not about promoting MLS or being a fanboy. I'm not doing either.

I agree with Arena, I've stated it multiple times on the boards. He overvalued MLS and undervalued Europe. Klinsmann did the opposite, overvaluing Europe and undervaluing MLS.

I'm not trying to defend Bradley. Look through the boards. Seriously. Look back to 2013 and 2014. Since I created my account, I've consistently stated that he was overrated, should not always be a starter, and always said Jones was better than him - a viewpoint that I surprisingly got tons of pushback from others on this site.

What you fail to realize, is that I'm not pumping MLS. I'm saying that players should be called in if they are playing consistently in a competent league (ie at least as good as MLS) and if they service a need. Just because you play in one league vs another does not by default make you better than one player or another.

I could rant about you're bias towards Europe, but it's been clearly documented on the site.

The point is that our player pool genuinely isn't good enough yet and they aren't where many think they are. Promise and potential does not mean that a player currently is good enough. Until other players come along and prove they are better than Bradley, hes still relevant. I dont think he is our best. I dont even think that at his peak he was one of the top 5 CMs we've had since 2002. But right now, other than McKennie, there haven't been any guys who have displayed they are capable of replacing him entirely in the CDM role.

Morales, in particular, has historically underperformed with the USMNT. Same with Chandler. I'd take Yedlin over Chandler at RB, because although he has been a consistent player in the Bundesliga, he always played poor with the national team. Club form doesnt always transfer to the national team.

This standard applies to Morales. If he continues to play in Bundesliga, he should get called up. If he does and still doesnt get called up, I'll agree with you that its messed up and advocate for him to get called in. But until he gets called in to the national team, gets on the field, and proves that he is clearly better, it's hard to say one way or the other - which still makes Bradley relevant.

Again, it's not about being a fanboy. It's about being realistic about where we are. And right now, sadly, this is where we are. Hopefully things change. But as detailed in my previous post, it's entirely realistic that Bradley could still be in the conversation for one of the last tickets to Qatar if he is still playing.

blaise213
Post #224
Saturday October 13, 2018 7:50am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,964
Bradley got owned on USA prospects twitter! I've seen him get burnt a lot over the years but glad someone called him out.....

https://mobile.twitter.com/RyanRosenblatt/sta...

hamsamwich
Post #225
Saturday October 13, 2018 1:04pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,176
Wil Trapp doesn't jog. And his distribution is similar to Bradley. In fact, Trapp has always played the 6... I'd start him over Bradley if that's the choice every time.

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