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Dave
Post #136
Tuesday October 9, 2018 1:38am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 907
Original post from Lilshmike
We have options and depth, it's about putting the pieces together, finding the right core of players, developing a style/system/formation that works, then rounding out our bench options. I dont think wing is our problem area. Maybe LW because we dont have a clear cut #1 there, but it seems like we need to figure out an attacking mid who pulls strings more than anything.


We don't really have a "Clear Cut #1" at any position at this point except Pulisic, Brooks, Miazga, & Yedlin. These 4 players are Inked into the Starting XI whenever available. IMO Adams & McKennie should be inked into the Starting XI, but until we get a real coach, they finalize a formation and decide how our players fit into their formation (style) I'll leave room for their not being in the XI.

Everyone else....Robinson, Saief, Wood, Novak, Green, Jozy, Weah, Amon, Arriola, Gooch, Gall, Siebatcheu, Sabbi, Morris, EPB, CCV, Parker, Long, Zimmerman, Villafana, Acosta, Moore, Cannon, Canouse, Lankford, Scott, Hyndman, Gyau, Hamid, S. Johnson, Gonzalez, Bono, etc... are all trying to prove that they belong in the 23. IMO some are of these players should always be in the 23 (Robinson, Saief, Green, etc....) but most are Interchangeable at this point and should be cycled in & out of the team based on their club play.

Then there are the prospects who could potentially break into the squad...Parks, Tillman, Durkin, Sargent, Wright, Zelalem, Dest, De La Torre, & Gaines. Players seeing time with their clubs youth sides, but not yet 1st team players. I'm not opposed to bringing these types of players in for a camp, but I don't know if they should be in the 23.

Once we get a coach than we'll see if they are committed to moving forwards with youth, or if they'll bring "Veterans" like Guzan, Bradley, Williams, Moralez, Ream, Chandler, etc.... back for consideration/evaluation. Till then I really don't want to see these players in camp.

bjelks
Post #137
Tuesday October 9, 2018 1:49am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 707
Original post from Lilshmike

Haha I'm not trolling at all, I'm legitimately repeating your exact words. I read the article, and Gooch legitimately was never cited as saying what you claimed he had said.

You used a bad example and misquoted your source. It's alright to admit that you were wrong...


He clearly stated that Sunderland is home (ie loyal), he's committed to making it in Europe and he wants to get them back where they belong.
Its ok if a player doesn't quit Europe and go to MLS every time there's adversity. America has to stop coddling these soft ass players that pay their way into the natl
Team.
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #138
Tuesday October 9, 2018 2:02am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 783
@Dave

Pretty good analysis. I agree with most of what you said. I feel like the main challenge is figuring out the formation/style of play then rounding out our bench/depth.

We have 2 GKs that should be consistent names (Steffen and Guzan), but need to figure out a couple 3rd options in case of injuries. We need a 2nd RB (I think this will eventually be Adams once he moves to Europe) - Chandler obviously can play there, but hes historically performed underwhelmingly with the USMNT. Robinson seems to be our LB, but we haven't really found others who seem to be able to appropriately challenge him long term. CM/CDM is kinda up for grabs outside of McKennie, but there are a number of guys we have. RW is set with Pulisic (if we play him there), just need a couple backups. We have 2 proven FWDs (Wood and Jozy), with a number of guys who can challenge them/add depth if they are healthy and performing (ArJo, Nova, Dwyer, Agudelo, maybe Weah, Sabbi, Siebatcheu, and yes, eventually Sargent). We have 2 CBs that seem to be the pair moving forward, but need to figure out who is behind them.

I'd only argue that it doesn't seem like we have a clear set of players duking it out for that LW or CAM spot. We have a bunch of guys who can play in those positions, but haven't found anyone (at least in my eyes) who seems like they have a legitimate shot at earning those starting spots, nor guys who would be the 2nd options for those spots.

Most of this SHOULD start to be ironed out though once a real full-time manager has been put in place, then we SHOULD have a more clear picture moving forward.

Lilshmike
Post #139
Tuesday October 9, 2018 2:10am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 783
Original post from bjelks

He clearly stated that Sunderland is home (ie loyal), he's committed to making it in Europe and he wants to get them back where they belong.
Its ok if a player doesn't quit Europe and go to MLS every time there's adversity. America has to stop coddling these soft ass players that pay their way into the natl
Team.
Alright, so here is what you originally said:

"(Gooch) said he was loyal to Sunderland and wanted to be a focal point in bringing them back up"

Haha again, you're putting words in his mouth and interpreting his statements how you want to interpret them, not as they were stated. You're also trying to backtrack on what you originally said to avoid accepting that it was false.

BUT we can solve this, just start a new thread, post Gooch's exact quote (exactly as it was stated), and then we can see if what you claim is true.

Dave
Post #140
Tuesday October 9, 2018 3:04am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 907
Original post from Lilshmike

I'd only argue that it doesn't seem like we have a clear set of players duking it out for that LW or CAM spot. We have a bunch of guys who can play in those positions, but haven't found anyone (at least in my eyes) who seems like they have a legitimate shot at earning those starting spots, nor guys who would be the 2nd options for those spots.

Most of this SHOULD start to be ironed out though once a real full-time manager has been put in place, then we SHOULD have a more clear picture moving forward.


I would argue that if we would play a formation suited to our player pool (4-2-3-1 instead of 4-1-4-1) we could consider Saief as our default LM & Green our default CAM (unless Pulisic is deployed @ CAM). IMO our best XI right now would be:

---------------Wood-----------
--Saief--------Green-------Pulisic--
------McKennie------Adams--------
Robinson---Brooks-----Miazga----Yedlin

This would give us speed & creativity (Saief & Pulisic) on either side. Yedlin & Robinson could provide the width without leaving a huge gap in the back. McKennie & Adams to make the late runs into the box that made Bradley was so successful at back in the 2010 & 2014 cycles.

Then there are a group of prospects who need to be tested as back-ups or pushing to overtake the default starters:
LM - Amon, Weah, Manneh,
CAM - Hyndmann, Scott, Parks
RM - Weah, Arriola, Gall, Gooch
CM - Acosta, Nagbe, Moralez, Williams, Canouse, Trapp

The biggest issue at the moment is that we've never had my above XI in a camp all at the same time, nor have we tried anything other than the 4-1-4-1 under the current coach. Instead the coach he keeps trying to force McKennie & Adams to be more creative CM's instead of what they're used as at the club level (CDM's or Box-to-Box CMs).

The sooner we get a real coach in the better off the team will be.

db707
Post #141
Tuesday October 9, 2018 8:10am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 664
Dave, good comments, I'd say Steffen's also a pretty clear cut #1 in goal right now, considering the competition (or lack thereof).

bjelks
Post #142
Tuesday October 9, 2018 11:24am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 707
@Dave great comments. I agree with all of that!!! I would add Bello is intriguing at left back and Cannon is intriguing as a right back back up. Also Moore is starting now is La Liga 2 and shouldn't be out of the picture. Joel Sonora has been getting extensive back up #10 mins for the past few months in Argentina. He has a skill set being a creative type that we're lacking At center attacking mid and I like the idea of Hyndman.
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #143
Tuesday October 9, 2018 12:51pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 783
@bjelks

Still waiting on that Gooch quote... Also, what full games have you seen Soņora play?

bjelks
Post #144
Tuesday October 9, 2018 1:41pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 707
@lilshmike if don't interpret, "this is home as committed and we want to get the club back to where it belongs" as a desire to lead the team back to premier league then I can't help you.
Find something else to troll.
When is the last time you've seen Jozy score in Premier League?
How many times was Trapp beaten in isolation defense against Mexico?
What's Bradley's career back pass average for nats?
How many unmarked crosses did Arriola kick in the stands against Brasil?
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #145
Tuesday October 9, 2018 2:22pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 783
Hahaha this is ridiculous. Here, I'll do it for you. This is taken directly from the article:

"All the players are in limbo, it's kind of a waiting game now," Gooch said. "That's my home, it's been my home the past six years. It's a good place to play football, even if the past two years haven't gone well, but hopefully we can bring the team back to where it belongs."

"I'm committed to Europe, I want to stay in Europe as long as I can," Gooch added. "MLS is something I'll think about maybe a bit later, but I'm 22 years old and I really want to try and make a great career, whether it's England or elsewhere in Europe."

Again... what you said in your previous posts is incorrect and now you are back tracking. Not only that, but what you just posted isn't even correct and Gooch never said it("this is home as committed and we want to get the club back to where it belongs"). I mean... come on now...

He never said that he passed up on "potential interest from Championship clubs" and stayed with Sunderland because he is committed to them and wants to bring them up to the premier league. If anything, his last statement opens the door for him to leave Sunderland at the end of his contract (which ends this season). As db707 said, for all you know he stayed at Sunderland because his GF lives there.

Hahaha but actually, what do your other comments have to do with anything we have been talking about? Its like you're losing in a game of monopoly and flipping the board over to scatter all the pieces out of anger...

Lilshmike
Post #146
Tuesday October 9, 2018 2:43pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 783
Original post from Dave

I would argue that if we would play a formation suited to our player pool (4-2-3-1 instead of 4-1-4-1) we could consider Saief as our default LM & Green our default CAM (unless Pulisic is deployed @ CAM). IMO our best XI right now would be:

----Wood---
-Saief--Green--Pulisic-
--McKennie--Adams--
Robinson-Brooks--Miazga-Yedlin

This would give us speed & creativity (Saief & Pulisic) on either side. Yedlin & Robinson could provide the width without leaving a huge gap in the back. McKennie & Adams to make the late runs into the box that made Bradley was so successful at back in the 2010 & 2014 cycles.

Then there are a group of prospects who need to be tested as back-ups or pushing to overtake the default starters:
LM - Amon, Weah, Manneh,
CAM - Hyndmann, Scott, Parks
RM - Weah, Arriola, Gall, Gooch
CM - Acosta, Nagbe, Moralez, Williams, Canouse, Trapp

The biggest issue at the moment is that we've never had my above XI in a camp all at the same time, nor have we tried anything other than the 4-1-4-1 under the current coach. Instead the coach he keeps trying to force McKennie & Adams to be more creative CM's instead of what they're used as at the club level (CDM's or Box-to-Box CMs).

The sooner we get a real coach in the better off the team will be.
Fair points, but I'm not sold on a 4-2-3-1 as our best formation given the personnel. Honestly, it could be a 4-3-3 or a 5-2-3/3-4-3 with wing backs.

Not only that, but I don't know if Saief at LM or Green at CAM are our best options for those spots. I think the rest of your picks are pretty accurate. I'd personally pick a healthy Johannsson over Wood, and maybe a healthy Williams over Adams. My gripe with Saief is that he isn't very fast, and to play the wing you either need to have good pace or have the ability to cross/ping balls on a dime wherever you are. I don't know if Saief has proven he is capable of that yet. Personally, I would like to try out Saief at CAM.

One question - is this your best starting 11 assuming that the WC was tomorrow, or the best 11 if you were the manager now leading the team into the next cycle?

hamsamwich
Post #147
Tuesday October 9, 2018 2:47pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,691
As far as Arriola goes- he plays as part of a team. Reading the game, making runs etc. Nobody played well against Brazil and I would say that guys like Arriola need the midfielders to possess the ball im a dangerous area- which arriola plays off of. We haven't seen Arriola (or Weah or whoever) playing with a 10 to help unlock the penalty area. This is where Pulisic would come into play. With Rooney and Acosta at D.C., Arriola has those type of players around him. Bobby Wood and Julian Green just aren't those type of players. We are currently mismatched all over the field. It's going to take a few years to find a complementary best XI. It all starts in the midfield in my opinion, the CMs... they need to be better at possession and movin the ball forward.

Lilshmike
Post #148
Tuesday October 9, 2018 3:01pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 783
Original post from hamsamwich

As far as Arriola goes- he plays as part of a team. Reading the game, making runs etc. Nobody played well against Brazil and I would say that guys like Arriola need the midfielders to possess the ball im a dangerous area- which arriola plays off of. We haven't seen Arriola (or Weah or whoever) playing with a 10 to help unlock the penalty area. This is where Pulisic would come into play. With Rooney and Acosta at D.C., Arriola has those type of players around him. Bobby Wood and Julian Green just aren't those type of players. We are currently mismatched all over the field. It's going to take a few years to find a complementary best XI. It all starts in the midfield in my opinion, the CMs... they need to be better at possession and movin the ball forward.
Agreed. He scores most of his goals from making runs and being on the receiving end of crosses/through balls.

hamsamwich
Post #149
Tuesday October 9, 2018 4:30pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,691
Also Gooch will soon be in MLS, and he also hasn't been playing the last few games. Should've moved two years ago when his stock was higher (that damn loyalty). Good luck to the kid. Returning to MLS has proven to be a career benefit for many a player (including the over 1M transferred Arriola). I think we all agree the players need to be better.

bjelks
Post #150
Tuesday October 9, 2018 5:57pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 707
Gooch has been injured the last few games with hamstring issue and Sunderland is currently in a promotion spot.

If there's nothing special about Arriola and he lacks comfidence and creativity against big teams it is what it is. We have more dynamic options that need to be vetted. At the international level, you need players with 1v1 ability.

Again @lilshmike , the article states that he has mls as well as championship interest. He says that this is home being Sunderland and we want to get back to where we belong being premier league. You can interpret however your heart desires. I'm just not going to take anybody that fanboys over MLS, Bradley and Jozy seriously. If you can't read, between the lines that's on you.

One thing we could do to improve possession is play our 2 best center mids and ball winners in a double 6 pivot with a real 10 in front. We still haven't seen Green or Saief at 10 with Adams and Mckennie behind. I'd also run out Soņora. If Bradley can be gifted a call back and Trapp can be captain, he can get a run out.
goalsense
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