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Philip
Post #226
Sunday February 3, 2019 4:23pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 30
Holden - 25
Cameron - 27
Dempsey - 24
Quickly off the top of my head that's three guys that contradict your statement. There is no shame in admitting you are wrong. It happens to the best of us.

Philip
Post #227
Sunday February 3, 2019 4:24pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 30
Original post from bjelks

If a player like Morales is called in and is awful and an MLS player plays better, then we can make the argument that not all Bundesliga players are better, but we have a problem with credibility when we don't even give these players who the football world outside of America considers to be better even a call up into camp.

Morales was called in and he was awful.

bjelks
Post #228
Sunday February 3, 2019 4:40pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,086
Original post from Philip

Holden - 25
Cameron - 27
Dempsey - 24
Quickly off the top of my head that's three guys that contradict your statement. There is no shame in admitting you are wrong. It happens to the best of us.


@Phillip you are giving me anomalies, outliers if you will, needles in haystacks. They don't represent just solid or good players in the MLS in their mid 20s.
Those are generational players that made their move at a time when American teenagers were not playing first team football at top leagues.

Geoff Cameron was the last American player over 23+ to transfer to a top league and play immediately and this was 7 years ago.
Just because he did, doesn't mean Will Trapp or Roldan can.
goalsense
bjelks
Post #229
Sunday February 3, 2019 4:47pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,086
Original post from Philip

Morales was called in and he was awful.


I'm trying to be respectful and I don't remember this game but he couldn't have been worse than Will Trapp was last yr, or Bradley in qualification, or Villafana ever, or Beckerman ever.
American soccer fans and media have to cut the bullshit and admit that we treat and evaluate players differently based on their relationship with MLS and USSF.
I would think we want players that are fighting to compete in a top league and give those guys chances based on club level and form, but there's too much bias towards MLS guys.
goalsense
Know Nothing
Post #230
Sunday February 3, 2019 4:50pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,548
I see Trapp was once again a hot topic here.

He was 5 or 6 out of 10 in my book. He did some good things, played some good passes when CR was pushed up the field, but his positioning on a few occasions left us quite vulnerable in the middle. One moment in particular around the 28th or 29th minute.

Philip
Post #231
Sunday February 3, 2019 4:57pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 30
Original post from bjelks

@Phillip you are giving me anomalies, outliers if you will, needles in haystacks. They don't represent just solid or good players in the MLS in their mid 20s.
Those are generational players that made their move at a time when American teenagers were not playing first team football at top leagues.

Geoff Cameron was the last American player over 23+ to transfer to a top league and play immediately and this was 7 years ago.
Just because he did, doesn't mean Will Trapp or Roldan can.

How many examples do you need before they aren't just anomalies anymore? Do they have to be American?

bjelks
Post #232
Sunday February 3, 2019 5:05pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,086
Original post from Philip


How many examples do you need before they aren't just anomalies anymore? Do they have to be American?


How about more than 1 every 7-10 yrs lol?
I mean you gave me 3 players in the past 12.
How are you defining anomaly?
goalsense
Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #233
Sunday February 3, 2019 5:10pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 713
We won the games we were supposed to win and looked like the better team. Nice to know we have some depth. All in all a very successful January camp. I am anxious to see our European players in March. I would also like to face an A team or close to an A team.

Philip
Post #234
Sunday February 3, 2019 5:17pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 30
Original post from bjelks

How about more than 1 every 7-10 yrs lol?
I mean you gave me 3 players in the past 12.
How are you defining anomaly?

You are the one who called them anomalies. How do you define it? I gave you three examples that happened within a 6 year period. The facts are you are oversimplifying things, there is so much more that goes into where a player plays. Holden for one only got his transfer because he had a Scottish passport. He would not have qualified for a work permit otherwise. They are people off the field, they have lives and families and friends and many more things that they have to think about.

navi8132
New York
Post #235
Sunday February 3, 2019 6:29pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 3,044
My take on January Camp:

1) I learnt nothing about Gregg Berhalter's competency. He played a certain way against two mediocre teams (I saw as playing one strict #6 DM). We know nothing about how he will play against heavyweights and against concacaf during high pressure WCQs. I get this weird Caleb Porter 2012 olympic qualifying vibe from him, where any time I hear him speak its in such a "coachy voice."

2) I already liked Long, Zimmerman, and Lleget before this camp, so its nothing new to see them do well.

3) I already disliked Arriola, Roldan (that missed open net was just the icing on the cake), and Zardes, and continue to rate them low.

4) The only new pieces of information I took was that Djorde Milohavic has talent but is unpolished and a little too comfortable/lackadaisical (kinda like Carlton). Lima was a surprise at RB and Jonathan Lewis was alright, but I have my doubts about whether they will be good enough against better opponents or real pressure situations.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #236
Sunday February 3, 2019 6:46pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 713
Original post from navi8132

My take on January Camp:

1) I learnt nothing about Gregg Berhalter's competency. He played a certain way against two mediocre teams (I saw as playing one strict #6 DM). We know nothing about how he will play against heavyweights and against concacaf during high pressure WCQs. I get this weird Caleb Porter 2012 olympic qualifying vibe from him, where any time I hear him speak its in such a "coachy voice."


Couple of things I did like. He never used more than 3 subs. JK used to use all six and we would win the game but we also just brought in 4-5 fresh guys. Berhalter played it more like a non-friendly match. I also thought we were better in the 2nd half of both games, not sure if that was just coincidence or adjustments that the coaching staff were making? It looked like tactical changes were being made from the sideline during play. I am hopeful and looking forward to the march games.

Dave
Post #237
Sunday February 3, 2019 9:21pm

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 975
As always with a January camp there is little hard evidence of value. What Berhalter & his coaching staff learned was....
1) Their style/formation can be successful at least against CONCACAF opponents.
2) There are some diamonds in the rough within the MLS player pool (Milohavic)
3) They can potentially pull some MLS players for depth/rounding out the full "A" Team rosters. Role players like Lima, Lletget, Roldan, Zimmerman, Arriola. Players who could potentially end up on the back half of a tournament roster to provide cover for injury/suspensions. And even though it pains me to say it we're likely to continue to see Bradley, Trapp, & Zardes fall in this category (at least for the short term).

Now the real task for the coaches begin with the March friendlies. They need to evaluate our better players plying their trade in Europe to see which will be able to fit their style/formation. How best to get as many of our top talents onto the field in positions to succeed, and how to get their strategies across in a condensed time frame (3-5 days instead of 2-3 weeks).

The March friendlies will be the real test of Berhalter and his staff. They'll have a chance to use our top talent options (no excuses) and will be facing the type of competition that is within our ability to beat but aren't foregone conclusions. Looking forwards to March...and hopefully a resurgence of the USMNT.

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #238
Monday February 4, 2019 1:13am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,452
Great reaction from the boys in the second half...would have rather seen MB instead of Trapp, but I understand Berhalter is giving him a chance to state his case...needed Baird to be better in the first half...we left some great opportunities on the table with poor final passes. I like Mika, he has a bright future, but I prefer Lletget in that role right now.

If I had to pick a handful of guys from this camp who should be part of the full roster in March....some are obvious... It would be Steffen, Long, MB, Lletget and Lima.

Great to see Lletget play his ass off back in SJ. I was at the Honduras qualie in SJ when he was injured...glad to see him get all the way back to 100%. Still kills me the Quakes botched locking him in...He played youth ball with Santa Clara Sporting...part of the South Bay soccer community.

Great to see Lima have two solid games... the dude is a gamer...great mentality.

I really like what I'm seeing from Berhalter.... a lot.

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