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Lilshmike
Post #181
Friday February 1, 2019 2:54pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,143
Give the people what they want... more memes and gifs

bjelks
Post #182
Friday February 1, 2019 3:45pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,199
Original post from Philip

I would be willing to bet that if Heskey had not been born in England he would not have those stats. I would also bet that if Zardes had been born in England he would have Premier League minutes.


This is ridiculous. More youth players play in England per capita than America, the EPL has fewer teams than MLS, and the EPL has more foreign allotments than MLS, so it's actually less likely a player born in England will play in EPL or EMNT.

I'd bet money if Zardes was the caliber of player he is now and born in Eng he'd still be a League One or Championship player
goalsense
Philip
Post #183
Friday February 1, 2019 4:01pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 31
Original post from bjelks

This is ridiculous. More youth players play in England per capita than America, the EPL has fewer teams than MLS, and the EPL has more foreign allotments than MLS, so it's actually less likely a player born in England will play in EPL or EMNT.

I'd bet money if Zardes was the caliber of player he is now and born in Eng he'd still be a League One or Championship player

With a few rare exceptions American youth players do not have access to Premier League level training. There might be more teams in MLS than there are in the Premier League but there are more professional teams in England than there are in USA. There are more opportunities for high level training for youth players in England. Emile Heskey was born in Leicester and that gave home access to their youth program which led him to the Premier League and then Liverpool, American players don't have that access.

Lilshmike
Post #184
Friday February 1, 2019 4:08pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,143
Original post from Philip

I would be willing to bet that if Heskey had not been born in England he would not have those stats. I would also bet that if Zardes had been born in England he would have Premier League minutes.
So what you're saying is that Heskey, having grown up and brought up in the English system, was able to make it and play in the Premier League because it was his domestic league...

In essence making the claim that your nationality and where you grew up/were developed soccer wise is a large determining factor in the league with which you will most likely end up and play...

For example, you're English and play in the Prem. You're German and play in the Bundesliga. You're French and play in Ligue 1. Spanish in La Liga. Mexican in Liga MX. American in MLS...

Interesting. That makes a lot of sense. Not only is that not ridiculous, but it is highly rational. Who would have ever thought that this was the case...

Know Nothing
Post #185
Friday February 1, 2019 5:36pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,596
Original post from Lilshmike

Give the people what they want... more memes and gifs


Just going with my first instinct.

Who knows what would have happened with Zardes if he was born in England. My guess is he would have bounced around the lower leagues, maybe even played on a team that got promoted to the PL.

English teams are always looking to the American market for either more profit through market share or cheap alternatives. Teams have taken chances on Dempsey and McBride and come out okay. But on the other hand you have Eddie Johnson, an equally physically gifted player with more skill than Zardes who did not pan out.

bjelks
Post #186
Friday February 1, 2019 6:30pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,199
Original post from Lilshmike

So what you're saying is that Heskey, having grown up and brought up in the English system, was able to make it and play in the Premier League because it was his domestic league...

In essence making the claim that your nationality and where you grew up/were developed soccer wise is a large determining factor in the league with which you will most likely end up and play...

For example, you're English and play in the Prem. You're German and play in the Bundesliga. You're French and play in Ligue 1. Spanish in La Liga. Mexican in Liga MX. American in MLS...

Interesting. That makes a lot of sense. Not only is that not ridiculous, but it is highly rational. Who would have ever thought that this was the case...


EPL is considered the top league in the world and they have the most money and the most foreign allotments, so it's much more difficult to make it to the EPL and become a regular no matter where you're from than a lesser league, say MLS.
There are 25 spots on an EPL roster and EPL teams are only required to have 8 English players.
There are 30 spots on an MLS team. 23 teams, 198 total foreign players, so an avg of 8 foreign players and 22 Americans per MLS team.

Emile Heskey made it to one of the biggest clubs in the world and in England, scored lots of goals and competed in Europe, we can't compare the quality of him with a homegrown, career MLS player.
goalsense
Philip
Post #187
Friday February 1, 2019 6:32pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 31
Original post from Lilshmike

So what you're saying is that Heskey, having grown up and brought up in the English system, was able to make it and play in the Premier League because it was his domestic league...

Obviously we all know there is more to it than just that but it does play a big role. It is a big part of what your training will be like at an early age. What style of play you will be exposed to, what kind of coaching you will get, what skills will be emphasized are all greatly influenced by where you are born. When you grow up in Spain and learn to play the Spanish way, you will find it easier to fit and succeed in La Liga then you would in Serie A. Then you throw in youth transfer rules and work permit issues and it becomes that much more difficult for a kid from Mexico to go play for Liverpool then it is for a kid from Liverpool.

Lilshmike
Post #188
Friday February 1, 2019 6:39pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,143
Original post from Philip

Obviously we all know there is more to it than just that but it does play a big role. It is a big part of what your training will be like at an early age. What style of play you will be exposed to, what kind of coaching you will get, what skills will be emphasized are all greatly influenced by where you are born. When you grow up in Spain and learn to play the Spanish way, you will find it easier to fit and succeed in La Liga then you would in Serie A. Then you throw in youth transfer rules and work permit issues and it becomes that much more difficult for a kid from Mexico to go play for Liverpool then it is for a kid from Liverpool.
That makes a lot of sense.

All this time I thought that foreign players couldn't make it in those leagues because they lacked the mentality...

Lilshmike
Post #189
Saturday February 2, 2019 3:42pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,143
Berhalter already stated that he was going to make minimal changes today.

I expect the same formation with maybe 3 changes max to the lineup. Wouldn't be surprised to see Zardes get the start again (unfortunately).

hamsamwich
Post #190
Saturday February 2, 2019 3:55pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,106
It's not like Ramirez or Ebobisse is better than Zardes. Really it's a non issue as Josh Sargent is better than all three. Zardes is a place holder.

Does anyone really see another player besides Steffen and Long who will be in the first XI when the full team comes around??? Maybe Mihailovic, maybe as a long shot, Lima. The rest, including Bradley, are fringe options... they play now and start because they are the best domestic options that can play in Berhalter's system. They can make the system function, but the better players will soon force them out.

bjelks
Post #191
Saturday February 2, 2019 3:59pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,199
Original post from Philip

Obviously we all know there is more to it than just that but it does play a big role. It is a big part of what your training will be like at an early age. What style of play you will be exposed to, what kind of coaching you will get, what skills will be emphasized are all greatly influenced by where you are born. When you grow up in Spain and learn to play the Spanish way, you will find it easier to fit and succeed in La Liga then you would in Serie A. Then you throw in youth transfer rules and work permit issues and it becomes that much more difficult for a kid from Mexico to go play for Liverpool then it is for a kid from Liverpool.


I'm noy saying it's not easier for domestic players developed in the league's country to ascend to that country's top flight, but I also believe the foreign players that have been good enough in the past have found ways to join the league and if a player is good enough currently, he will find a way as well.
When I say an American player has a weak mentality, I'm saying this player has had opportunities to join a better league and test himself and chooses not to.
If a player doesn't have an opportunity to join a better league, than I don't think he's not as good as the players in the league.

If you've spent your whole career in the D-league, then I can't see how you're better than players in the NBA
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #192
Saturday February 2, 2019 4:35pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,143
Original post from hamsamwich

It's not like Ramirez or Ebobisse is better than Zardes. Really it's a non issue as Josh Sargent is better than all three. Zardes is a place holder.

Does anyone really see another player besides Steffen and Long who will be in the first XI when the full team comes around??? Maybe Mihailovic, maybe as a long shot, Lima. The rest, including Bradley, are fringe options... they play now and start because they are the best domestic options that can play in Berhalter's system. They can make the system function, but the better players will soon force them out.
Outside of Pulisic, Brooks, Yedlin, and McKennie, there are no players who are guaranteed first 11 players. If Adam's keeps it up in Germany, he will quickly move to that list as well.

Steffen possibly... but as I've stated, he will be at least starting every game through gold cup in order to fulfill the requirements for his work permit.

Long isn't. Not yet at least. He very much is fringe roster selection at this point. I genuinely don't think he has done enough to even be a consistent name in our 23. There is competition at that spot.

Theres no way that Brooks isn't in the starting 11, nor Yedlin. As much as everyone overlooks him, Yedlin has been, currently is, and will be our starting RB moving forward when the entire pool is available for selection. Yes, Lima did well on his debut... but it was against a Panama B team. And it was only 1 game. Same for Mihailovic. Let's not get carried away...

And Bradley is a fringe option as far as starting 11 go, not selection to the 23. Berhalter has already stated that Bradley is in the plan moving forward.

blaise213
Post #193
Saturday February 2, 2019 4:41pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,889
I was going to go to the game but it's a monsoon outside

bjelks
Post #194
Saturday February 2, 2019 5:01pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,199
I can't see any reason outside of clear and blatant nepotism to call in Bradley over healthy D Williams and in form Morales. Until US soccer cuts that practice, we'll never improve as a nation or be respected by other countries.
goalsense
Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #195
Saturday February 2, 2019 6:37pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 784
Original post from bjelks

I can't see any reason outside of clear and blatant nepotism to call in Bradley over healthy D Williams and in form Morales. Until US soccer cuts that practice, we'll never improve as a nation or be respected by other countries.


Hence why you comment on soccer blogs and are not a coach within the US system.

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