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Dave
Post #1
Sunday August 5, 2018 2:26am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 901
Now that we're past the halfway point of the MLS Season, which players deserve a shot at the next "Camp Cup Cake"?

Keepers:- 4
Steffen, Gonzalez, Bono, Turner,

Defenders: - 11
Lima, Cannon, Vincent, Glad, Trusty, Zimmerman, D. Acosta, Farfan, Long, Parker,

Midfielders: - 10
Durkin, K. Acosta, Delgado, Jones, Lletget, Muyl, Roldan, Trapp, Yueill,
Adams (Unless he leaves for Europe)

Attackers: - 10
Arriola, Kovar, Picault, Rowe, Agudelo, Allen, Jamieson IV, Lennon, Lewis, Mueller,

I've tried to limit the call-ups to players 25 and under as I don't see any point in calling up anyone who'll age out before the 2022 WC.

db707
Post #2
Sunday August 5, 2018 6:40am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 644
Original post from Dave

I've tried to limit the call-ups to players 25 and under as I don't see any point in calling up anyone who'll age out before the 2022 WC.


We still want to win the Gold Cup next year, I believe the camp should take that into account. Our second goal in the near term is qualifying for the 2020 Olympics. If we want to prioritize a fringe player who will be eligible for those games over a player who will not be, I can see that.

Dave
Post #3
Sunday August 5, 2018 9:41pm

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 901
Original post from db707

We still want to win the Gold Cup next year, I believe the camp should take that into account. Our second goal in the near term is qualifying for the 2020 Olympics. If we want to prioritize a fringe player who will be eligible for those games over a player who will not be, I can see that.


Yes we want to wing the 2019 Gold Cup, but our best players (those who'll help us win the GC) are all playing in Europe (Pulisic, Brooks, Miazga, McKennie, Weah, etc....). These players will not be available for the January Camp. We have to make due with players from MLS.

Again to qualify for the Olympics we need to rely on MLS & Liga MX players. That's why I tried to target youngish players (Under 25). These are the players who are likely to be part of the qualification tournament. EU Teams rarely release players for the Qualification tournament. Only after qualifying will we be able to add players like Pulisic, McKennie, Weah, etc... to the Olympic team.

db707
Post #4
Sunday August 5, 2018 10:03pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 644
Yes, true, my point is that some of the MLS guys you named are very fringe (Kovar, Picault (who is too old by your measure anyway), Muyl, etc.) and not eligible for the Olympics. So if they're very unlikely to feature in 2022 anyway, I'd pick a player over them who may have more upside for the Olympic or other youth cycles.

Dave
Post #5
Sunday August 5, 2018 11:21pm

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 901
Original post from db707

Yes, true, my point is that some of the MLS guys you named are very fringe (Kovar, Picault (who is too old by your measure anyway), Muyl, etc.) and not eligible for the Olympics. So if they're very unlikely to feature in 2022 anyway, I'd pick a player over them who may have more upside for the Olympic or other youth cycles.


Do you have some names/examples of who should be considered? Most of the top performers in MLS who are eligible for the US are Older than the players I identified and so are going to be aged out for 2022, let alone aren't eligible for the Olympics.

db707
Post #6
Monday August 6, 2018 5:50am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 644
Carleton for one, who isn't on your list. I'm also loathe to just disregard anyone who might happen to be 30+ in 2022.

Lilshmike
Post #7
Monday August 6, 2018 1:55pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 728
Original post from db707

Carleton for one, who isn't on your list. I'm also loathe to just disregard anyone who might happen to be 30+ in 2022.
I would agree on the 30+ in most circumstances, but it all depends on the position they play, how good they are, and how old they are going to be. I'd put the cutoff at 32ish in 2022. Goalkeepers should have a cutoff of 36ish. Johannsson would be over 30 in 2022, but could be an option. Guzan would be 37 and could possibly still be one of our best goalkeepers if he is still playing. Not saying these guys would be starters at that time, but could still be legitimate options and maintain a position on the bench.

But of course, all would come down to a case by case basis. Its always good to have a good blend of youth and experience.

Lilshmike
Post #8
Monday August 6, 2018 2:04pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 728
Something that I would like to see them do, which I have posted in previous threads, is to have a massive January camp. Call in about 40 guys or so, and whittle down from there until you have the 25. Have it almost like a combine - test them physically, assess them in drills and scrimmages, play them in different positions and with different groups of people.

One problem I feel like we have is that since we don't have a big number of standout players, its difficult to determine a consistent pool. Too many times when there are selections I feel less than satisfied with who gets called in because there is a limited number of "rotating" positions (at least there have been up to this point) on the USMNT and guys who may be in the conversation for a spot only get one chance every blue moon. It's hard to get an accurate read on players if they only get into one friendly or camp and play against teams like Nicaragua. If we get a huge group of guys together to assess all the fringe talent, I feel like it would be easier for us to round out the squad.

Dave
Post #9
Tuesday August 7, 2018 2:12am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 901
Original post from db707

Carleton for one, who isn't on your list. I'm also loathe to just disregard anyone who might happen to be 30+ in 2022.


OK. You want to add 1 young prospect....Carleton...who could be considered for the Olympics. While I don't think he's ready yet, fine.

As for adding players who above 25....I guess your OK with adding the retreads & veterans from the failed 2018 cycle back into the mix.
Jozy, Dwyer, SaPong, Bradley, Hedges, Marshall, Morrow, etc....

db707
Post #10
Tuesday August 7, 2018 5:21am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 644
Dave, 5 of the 7 guys you listed didn't play a second in qualifying last time. Not saying I'd call any of them for that camp but you can't exactly blame them for us failing to qualify. In a 35 man camp taking looks at youth players like Alvarez, Ferreira, Busio isn't a bad idea. Nor is calling in a guy like Dwyer who has double digit goals over someone who is there because he just happens to not be older than 25 like Kovar.

Lilshmike
Post #11
Tuesday August 7, 2018 1:48pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 728
Original post from db707

Dave, 5 of the 7 guys you listed didn't play a second in qualifying last time. Not saying I'd call any of them for that camp but you can't exactly blame them for us failing to qualify. In a 35 man camp taking looks at youth players like Alvarez, Ferreira, Busio isn't a bad idea. Nor is calling in a guy like Dwyer who has double digit goals over someone who is there because he just happens to not be older than 25 like Kovar.
Good point.

As for players over 25, I'd like to see a few involved that haven't gotten much love. In particular, Perry Kitchen and Greg Garza. Also, as long as it doesn't put him in jeopardy of losing a spot on his team, Romain Gall could be an option. The Swedish league follows the same calendar as MLS, and if Malmo isn't in Champions League then he may be available.

hamsamwich
Post #12
Tuesday August 7, 2018 2:12pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,657
I think the right mix is important. The young players should be surrounded by the best available American players. The gold cup is around the corner and this camp cupcake will be like the rest... a chance for guys like Acosta (maybe) and Adams (maybe) and Lletget to stand out amongst their less talented domestic players. I wouldn't discount Bradley for example- he still is mentally miles ahead of most players and I would rather have him show the Durkins and Carletons the ropes rather than say Russell Canouse or Perry Kitchen. I would not call Bradley in myself, just making a point that the national team is still for the best players, who need to be beaten out, not over promoted. And Cupcake has always been about the best domestic based players.

- Bruin - Dwyer -
-- Rowe ---
- Lletget - Acosta -
--- Trapp ---
Vincent Parker Glad Lima
-- Steffen ---

Adams will be transferred by then, Walker Zimmerman is definitely in the mix as well. It was a lost season for Polster. The other keepers are so inferior to Steffen that unless he is transferred I can't see another goalie overtaking him.

Lilshmike
Post #13
Tuesday August 7, 2018 7:34pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 728
Original post from hamsamwich

I think the right mix is important. The young players should be surrounded by the best available American players. The gold cup is around the corner and this camp cupcake will be like the rest... a chance for guys like Acosta (maybe) and Adams (maybe) and Lletget to stand out amongst their less talented domestic players. I wouldn't discount Bradley for example- he still is mentally miles ahead of most players and I would rather have him show the Durkins and Carletons the ropes rather than say Russell Canouse or Perry Kitchen. I would not call Bradley in myself, just making a point that the national team is still for the best players, who need to be beaten out, not over promoted. And Cupcake has always been about the best domestic based players.

- Bruin - Dwyer -
- Rowe -
- Lletget - Acosta -
- Trapp -
Vincent Parker Glad Lima
- Steffen -

Adams will be transferred by then, Walker Zimmerman is definitely in the mix as well. It was a lost season for Polster. The other keepers are so inferior to Steffen that unless he is transferred I can't see another goalie overtaking him.
Building off your Steffen point, I agree to an extent. Assuming that we were in the WC tomorrow, I would pick Guzan. And if he is still around and playing by 2022, he may still be one of our top choices. Goalkeepers have a different shelf life than field players, so this shouldn't be a controversial statement.

Going into qualifying, I think that Guzan and Steffen should be chosen every time when they are healthy and available. If it were me, I'd likely play Guzan in the important qualifying games and ease Steffen into the mix through friendlies and less important matches. Obviously this could change throughout the course of qualifying, but at least do this to start.

Maybe a topic for another thread, but at this point we should be looking for our 3rd choice keeper. It could be worth not even bringing Steffen in in January, considering we already know what he has to offer, so that we could get a better look at other guys to round out our pool.


The final stretch of the English league season is upon us, with several Americans on the verge of relegation with their teams.
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