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bjelks
Post #16
Wednesday August 1, 2018 7:14pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 707
Original post from Lilshmike

This comment by you was in the thread for Shaq Moore. Here is the hyperlink.
http://locker.yanks-abroad.com/index.php?mode...

I'm pretty much giving you what you asked for, with respect to Jozy and Boyd. This is why your comments can't be taken serious. By your own standards, Jozy is proven to be a better choice than Boyd. But you won't accept it and constantly change your arguments because (as cudevil has put it)... hey, Europe!


I'm sorry this can't be taken seriously because you're not accounting for all the time Boyd has missed due to injury. Also, all Jozy's playing history tells us is that he was the worst premier league player ever, the biggest failed transfer in mls history, and was given every opportunity to succeed.
goalsense
bjelks
Post #17
Wednesday August 1, 2018 7:18pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 707
Original post from cudevil

Literally none of what you posted about Boyd is accurate. How do I know? Because he wasn't getting regular time for a mid-level second division team (that was only 3 points above the relegation playoff). Someone with the alleged skillset of Boyd wouldn't be a sometimes starter with a poor scoring rate. But hey, Europe!

And while some of Jozy's current value on the market has to do with his over-valued contract with TFC, you are absolutely certifiable if you don't think teams would value him at 3x the money of Boyd.


If Jozy is valued at 3x Boyd, how come no one has bidded anything to buy him?
Rhetorical, he's washed, soft, and spineless. Why else would he transfer to a lower league and a big pay day and his prime? But hey, American good old boy favor.
goalsense
Philip
Post #18
Wednesday August 1, 2018 7:58pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 16
I have been a frequent reader of these threads for years but haven't posted. I think one thing that is being overlooked in this is that Boyd being in Germany doesn't necessarily mean he has more drive than Altidore. Boyd is home, he is German, he is staying where he is most comfortable. Altidore did the same thing by coming back to MLS. They are equals with the exception that Altidore has produced much more with the USMNT as compared to Boyd.

Lilshmike
Post #19
Wednesday August 1, 2018 8:01pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 783
Original post from bjelks

I'm sorry this can't be taken seriously because you're not accounting for all the time Boyd has missed due to injury. Also, all Jozy's playing history tells us is that he was the worst premier league player ever, the biggest failed transfer in mls history, and was given every opportunity to succeed.
Jozy had a pretty successful career in Holland. Did you forget about that? That league is at a higher level than 2 Bundesliga.
Original post from bjelks

If Jozy is valued at 3x Boyd, how come no one has bidded anything to buy him?
Rhetorical, he's washed, soft, and spineless. Why else would he transfer to a lower league and a big pay day and his prime? But hey, American good old boy favor.
Nobody has even bid on Boyd. He keeps joining teams on free transfers. At least Jozy has had his pay days. Boyd is still struggling. Again, this counters your argument.

As I have stated, START A THREAD specific to the pros and cons of different leagues and we can discuss. Lets try and keep this thread on topic.

Lilshmike
Post #20
Wednesday August 1, 2018 8:02pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 783
Original post from Philip

I have been a frequent reader of these threads for years but haven't posted. I think one thing that is being overlooked in this is that Boyd being in Germany doesn't necessarily mean he has more drive than Altidore. Boyd is home, he is German, he is staying where he is most comfortable. Altidore did the same thing by coming back to MLS. They are equals with the exception that Altidore has produced much more with the USMNT as compared to Boyd.
Accurate. Very accurate.

bjelks
Post #21
Wednesday August 1, 2018 8:10pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 707
Original post from Philip

I have been a frequent reader of these threads for years but haven't posted. I think one thing that is being overlooked in this is that Boyd being in Germany doesn't necessarily mean he has more drive than Altidore. Boyd is home, he is German, he is staying where he is most comfortable. Altidore did the same thing by coming back to MLS. They are equals with the exception that Altidore has produced much more with the USMNT as compared to Boyd.


@Phillip Everyone outside of America considers Germany a top 4 league in the world and having arguably a top 5 player development system in the world. America isn't in the top 10 in either. How can you not have the drive to compete at the highest level (Jozy) and have the same drive as someone who is striving for promotion to the highest level (Boyd)?
goalsense
Philip
Post #22
Wednesday August 1, 2018 8:20pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 16
Original post from bjelks

@Phillip Everyone outside of America considers Germany a top 4 league in the world and having arguably a top 5 player development system in the world. America isn't in the top 10 in either. How can you not have the drive to compete at the highest level (Jozy) and have the same drive as someone who is striving for promotion to the highest level (Boyd)?


That's my point, you assume he has drive and he is striving to succeed in a top league because that is the country he is playing, I'm saying that may not be true. There is a lot to be said for being somewhere you are comfortable, especially when young. Boyd simply had the good fortune to be born and raised in Germany, Altidore wasn't that lucky. No one on here actually knows either of these guys so we can't say for sure what is in their head. I'm saying there is a possibility that Boyd is playing in Germany because he is comfortable at home. You can't assume that he is above Altidore simply because of the country he plays in.

Lilshmike
Post #23
Wednesday August 1, 2018 8:28pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 783
Original post from Philip

That's my point, you assume he has drive and he is striving to succeed in a top league because that is the country he is playing, I'm saying that may not be true. There is a lot to be said for being somewhere you are comfortable, especially when young. Boyd simply had the good fortune to be born and raised in Germany, Altidore wasn't that lucky. No one on here actually knows either of these guys so we can't say for sure what is in their head. I'm saying there is a possibility that Boyd is playing in Germany because he is comfortable at home. You can't assume that he is above Altidore simply because of the country he plays in.
Preach

bjelks
Post #24
Wednesday August 1, 2018 9:15pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 707
Original post from Philip

That's my point, you assume he has drive and he is striving to succeed in a top league because that is the country he is playing, I'm saying that may not be true. There is a lot to be said for being somewhere you are comfortable, especially when young. Boyd simply had the good fortune to be born and raised in Germany, Altidore wasn't that lucky. No one on here actually knows either of these guys so we can't say for sure what is in their head. I'm saying there is a possibility that Boyd is playing in Germany because he is comfortable at home. You can't assume that he is above Altidore simply because of the country he plays in.


Again @phillip football isn't comfortable, it's cut throat and competitive. The best players play in the best leagues and the best national teams have the most players in the best leagues and consistently performing. It's not rocket science. America has to stop pacifying players for always taking the easy route like Jermaine Jones said. It's obviously not working. Boyd had a very high strike rate in Austria (not Germany) then transferred to a Bundesliga team that was striving to secure a champions league spot and suffered a string of injuries. Boyd didn't go to Red Bull because it was in Germany, he went because he's a hungry footballer and wanted to prove himself at the highest level. Jozy decided that money and job security were more important than the quality of football and that tells you everything you need to know about how much he wants to prove himself and improve his craft. There's nothing comfortable about Boyd playing in a situation where he has to compete for a spot everyday and play for promotion or relegation.
goalsense
db707
Post #25
Wednesday August 1, 2018 9:26pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 664
bjelks, I wouldn't want you anywhere near rocket science.

Philip
Post #26
Wednesday August 1, 2018 9:31pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 16
Original post from bjelks

Boyd didn't go to Red Bull because it was in Germany, he went because he's a hungry footballer and wanted to prove himself at the highest level.


You are assuming there, you don't know what was in his head. High level athletics is cut throat, but Boyd is a low level player. Altidore may not be much better but at this point in their careers the league they play in is not all that relevant. They are not teenagers so Germany being better for development is irrelevant in this context. They are the players they are, neither is developing, the only objective way to compare them is to look at their contributions to the USMNT. I'm sure you know Boyd doesn't even come close to Altidore there. While playing with equal teammates against equal competition Altidore is better.

munns5986
Post #27
Wednesday August 1, 2018 9:37pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 272
Original post from bjelks

Again @phillip football isn't comfortable, it's cut throat and competitive. The best players play in the best leagues and the best national teams have the most players in the best leagues and consistently performing. It's not rocket science. America has to stop pacifying players for always taking the easy route like Jermaine Jones said. It's obviously not working. Boyd had a very high strike rate in Austria (not Germany) then transferred to a Bundesliga team that was striving to secure a champions league spot and suffered a string of injuries. Boyd didn't go to Red Bull because it was in Germany, he went because he's a hungry footballer and wanted to prove himself at the highest level. Jozy decided that money and job security were more important than the quality of football and that tells you everything you need to know about how much he wants to prove himself and improve his craft. There's nothing comfortable about Boyd playing in a situation where he has to compete for a spot everyday and play for promotion or relegation.


Not saying he can't play well and I have always been a fan of Boyd but he shouldn't be in the conversation until he can prove to be healthy and playing for more than a month at a time.

You can have the drive and talent of Messi and Ronaldo but if you only play in 3 matches a year your value isn't very high.

I am not pacifying and making it easier on American soccer players. To be better I think they need to be in Europe but someone who actually plays in MLS versus someone who is regularly hurt will have a higher value. Doesn't matter how much you love one player or hate the other. Have to applaud your passion but you are ignoring logic and facts.

bjelks
Post #28
Wednesday August 1, 2018 10:06pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 707
Original post from db707

bjelks, I wouldn't want you anywhere near rocket science.


I understand I struck a nerve by putting some realistic context in the assessment of the quality your biased favorite league and national team compared to international standards, but I wouldn't want you anywhere near assessment or analysis of football quality outside of America.
goalsense
bjelks
Post #29
Wednesday August 1, 2018 10:26pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 707
Original post from Philip

You are assuming there, you don't know what was in his head. High level athletics is cut throat, but Boyd is a low level player. Altidore may not be much better but at this point in their careers the league they play in is not all that relevant. They are not teenagers so Germany being better for development is irrelevant in this context. They are the players they are, neither is developing, the only objective way to compare them is to look at their contributions to the USMNT. I'm sure you know Boyd doesn't even come close to Altidore there. While playing with equal teammates against equal competition Altidore is better.


We know that Boyd wants to play in the Bundesliga again and has shown flashes that he belongs before injuries and relegation. We know that Altidore was voted the worst premier league player in history and couldn't get a better offer than MLS. You are assuming that where you play doesn't reflect your sharpness, mentality, ability but according to everyone else in the world not an mls fanboy it does and it also reflects international play success. To say Boyd is a low level player 2 yrs removed from Bundesliga relegation is flat out ignorant. There are no low level players in Bundesliga 2. They're all trying to get to Bundesliga 1 or have played there. However, most MLS players will never be good enough to play in a top flight league. I'm sorry US team management has always been a shitshow and it's always been about politics, who came from the good old boy system and not ability. So gold cup tap ins against 3rd world countries means nothing.
goalsense
bjelks
Post #30
Wednesday August 1, 2018 10:28pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 707
Original post from munns5986

Not saying he can't play well and I have always been a fan of Boyd but he shouldn't be in the conversation until he can prove to be healthy and playing for more than a month at a time.

You can have the drive and talent of Messi and Ronaldo but if you only play in 3 matches a year your value isn't very high.

I am not pacifying and making it easier on American soccer players. To be better I think they need to be in Europe but someone who actually plays in MLS versus someone who is regularly hurt will have a higher value. Doesn't matter how much you love one player or hate the other. Have to applaud your passion but you are ignoring logic and facts.


I've said over and over Boyd's issue hasn't been talent, it's been injuries. Of course, he can't play if he's not available.
goalsense
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