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Ten-Towns
Post #1
Tuesday July 31, 2018 7:29am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,835
With Wood, Sargent, Weah, and Novakovich the USMNT seems to be trending well in the FWD department. Siebatcheu could make the switch to the US, but for right now I am leaving him out. Johannsson is perennially injured which I think prompted Werder to bring back Pizzaro. With that being said I have left him out of this as well until he shows that he can stay healthy.

Who scores more goals this season?

I have Novakovich scoring 16 goals for Sittard

Wood scoring 11 goals for Hannover

Sargent bagging a respectable 5 in his first season

Weah bagging 4( unless he goes on loan and his numbers might increase).

if Siebatcheu makes the switch then the US will be one hell of an attacking team come the Gold Cup next summer.

Lilshmike
Post #2
Tuesday July 31, 2018 3:35pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 863
As much as it pains me to say, but we have to still include Altidore. He is our best hold up guy at the moment and deserves to at least be on the bench.

Dom Dwyer keeps getting overlooked as well. Depending on form of our players, he should be in the discussion to have a rotating spot on the bench/possibly get in a game if we have injuries/openings due to club conflicts.

My money is on Novakovich scoring more goals, simply because the Dutch league is notorious for padding the stats of attacking players. I think your assessments of the goals are fairly reasonable and likely. I would switch Sargent with Johannsson though. Yes, he is always injured, but when healthy, he is their first striker off the bench and possibly the starter for Bremen.

Lilshmike
Post #3
Tuesday July 31, 2018 3:38pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 863
Also, although he isn't exactly a forward, I wouldn't be shocked to see Pulisic pull in double digit goals this season

bjelks
Post #4
Tuesday July 31, 2018 7:47pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 796
Actually, we don't have to include Altidore. He is not a better hold up player than Boyd or Wood.
There is no need to waste a valuable spot on an older player that's on the downside of his career instead of using that spot to give a young player that's developing and working to improve experience. It sends the wrong message to the pool.
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #5
Tuesday July 31, 2018 8:16pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 863
Original post from bjelks

Actually, we don't have to include Altidore. He is not a better hold up player than Boyd or Wood.
There is no need to waste a valuable spot on an older player that's on the downside of his career instead of using that spot to give a young player that's developing and working to improve experience. It sends the wrong message to the pool.
Jozy
Age: 28
Last Season Apps: 33
Last Season Goals: 18

Boyd
Age: 27
Last Season Apps: 17
Last Season Goals: 4

Info above is taken from Wikipedia. Jozy and Boyd are 1 year apart in age. Jozy is playing and scoring. Boyd is not. Picking a player who is virtually the same age, with far less international experience, playing time, and goals scored for their club... sends the wrong message.

bjelks
Post #6
Wednesday August 1, 2018 6:47am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 796
Original post from Lilshmike

Jozy
Age: 28
Last Season Apps: 33
Last Season Goals: 18

Boyd
Age: 27
Last Season Apps: 17
Last Season Goals: 4

Info above is taken from Wikipedia. Jozy and Boyd are 1 year apart in age. Jozy is playing and scoring. Boyd is not. Picking a player who is virtually the same age, with far less international experience, playing time, and goals scored for their club... sends the wrong message.


Again, I disagree. Picking a player who decided to chase money and pad stats over the highest level of competition sends a bad message to young players in the pool. Boyd is still fighting to earn a spot in the Bundesliga, while Jozy is coasting in MLS. 2 totally different mentalities. We know that Jozy has a lackluster work rate, limited 1v1 ability, quality and doesn't perform under pressure. He sounds like exactly the type of guy we don't want in a program rebuild.
goalsense
db707
Post #7
Wednesday August 1, 2018 7:55am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 720
LOL, bjelks. Just say Boyd is on the books in Europe and Jozy is not. Boyd isn't even in the conversation until he proves he can stay healthy and get regular playing time anyway, so as usual with you it's moot.

cudevil
Post #8
Wednesday August 1, 2018 1:52pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 705
Original post from bjelks

Again, I disagree. Picking a player who decided to chase money and pad stats over the highest level of competition sends a bad message to young players in the pool. Boyd is still fighting to earn a spot in the Bundesliga, while Jozy is coasting in MLS. 2 totally different mentalities. We know that Jozy has a lackluster work rate, limited 1v1 ability, quality and doesn't perform under pressure. He sounds like exactly the type of guy we don't want in a program rebuild.


And yet Jozy would double, if not more, Boyd's scoring rate if he played in Bundes 2. There is literally nothing Boyd does at a higher level than Jozy. But hey, Europe!

bjelks
Post #9
Wednesday August 1, 2018 2:28pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 796
Again Boyd is still trying to get back to Bundesliga and Jozy is cherry picking in MLS so you can't say the goals translate. And scoring is about opportunity and service. If Jozy gets the same or less chances in Bundesliga, I haven't seen anything from his history that would make me think he would convert more. The problem with Jozy is that he's never been a player to make something and never had the quality to be efficient with chances. Boyd has a better 1st touch, better shot from distance, better 1v1 ability, better work rate. Most importantly a tougher and more ambitious mentality which mls fan boys don't understand, because hey, we accept mediocrity and soft minded players.
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #10
Wednesday August 1, 2018 3:08pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 863
Original post from bjelks

Again Boyd is still trying to get back to Bundesliga and Jozy is cherry picking in MLS so you can't say the goals translate. And scoring is about opportunity and service. If Jozy gets the same or less chances in Bundesliga, I haven't seen anything from his history that would make me think he would convert more. The problem with Jozy is that he's never been a player to make something and never had the quality to be efficient with chances. Boyd has a better 1st touch, better shot from distance, better 1v1 ability, better work rate. Most importantly a tougher and more ambitious mentality which mls fan boys don't understand, because hey, we accept mediocrity and soft minded players.
Dude... stop with this nonsense.

Lilshmike
Post #11
Wednesday August 1, 2018 3:51pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 863
@bjelks

Hahaha actually, come to think of it, you know who you remind me of who used to be on the boards... that Alcharod character. But instead of blowing up the boards with condescending statements and nonsense about Freddy Adu, its about how any guys playing in Europe are automatically better than any player in MLS and how MLS sucks.

BUT I know you like stats and facts, so here are some more.
Highest transfer fees (adjusted for inflation)
  • Boyd's highest = $3.08M in 2014, $3.3M in today's dollars
  • Jozy's highest = $10M in 2008, $11.7M in today's dollars
Current Market Value (via Transfrmrkt, a European group)
  • Boyd's value = $0.6M
  • Jozy's value = $5.9M
As stated, I will gladly continue this discussion IN ANOTHER THREAD if you want. You start the thread, and we can continue. Until then, let's keep on topic for this one moving forward (myself included).

bjelks
Post #12
Wednesday August 1, 2018 5:16pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 796
Jozy being bought by Villarreal for 10m has nothing to with how mentally soft he is and how poor his finishing has been in the box throughout his career. He was bought as an experiment and marketing ploy and became a bust and disappointment.

Jozy, was such a failure he was sold back to MLS for half of what he was originally bought for in the prime of his career. Jozy had no offers in Europe division 1 or 2 for even close to what Toronto paid for him. The only reason he's valued at 5m is because he has a ridiculous dp contract. None of this has anything to do with his work rate, 1v1 ability, finishing quality. Jozy scored 1 goal for a bottom 3 premier league team in 42 appearances in 2 yrs. Jozy was voted as the worst striker in Premier League History by the Daily Mail in 2015.

So when I say, that Jozy is soft, lacking quality, a failure, not respected by the international football community, easy to replace and cherry picking in MLS, I have very sound evidence to prove it. Lastly, Jozy's MLS goals are meaningless and do not translate to higher levels.

Boyd has all the tools for the highest level and just has to stay healthy and get chances.
goalsense
cudevil
Post #13
Wednesday August 1, 2018 5:27pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 705
Original post from bjelks

Again Boyd is still trying to get back to Bundesliga and Jozy is cherry picking in MLS so you can't say the goals translate. And scoring is about opportunity and service. If Jozy gets the same or less chances in Bundesliga, I haven't seen anything from his history that would make me think he would convert more. The problem with Jozy is that he's never been a player to make something and never had the quality to be efficient with chances. Boyd has a better 1st touch, better shot from distance, better 1v1 ability, better work rate. Most importantly a tougher and more ambitious mentality which mls fan boys don't understand, because hey, we accept mediocrity and soft minded players.


Literally none of what you posted about Boyd is accurate. How do I know? Because he wasn't getting regular time for a mid-level second division team (that was only 3 points above the relegation playoff). Someone with the alleged skillset of Boyd wouldn't be a sometimes starter with a poor scoring rate. But hey, Europe!

And while some of Jozy's current value on the market has to do with his over-valued contract with TFC, you are absolutely certifiable if you don't think teams would value him at 3x the money of Boyd.

Lilshmike
Post #14
Wednesday August 1, 2018 6:32pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 863
Original post from bjelks

If my comments can't be taken seriously, why do you get so worked up about them lol?
I've given you many advantages top European 2nd divisions have over MLS, just reread the thread. This whole discussion about La Liga 2 compared to MLS was used to explain why there's no evidence that Cannon is better than Moore or even playing at the same level as well as why this is a better league for his development than MLS. As a suggestion, why don't you tell me how many MLS players transferred to to 1st division Euro Leagues, for how much, how many minutes they played, goals scored and created compared to players who transferred and promoted from Euro 2nd divisions?
This comment by you was in the thread for Shaq Moore. Here is the hyperlink.
http://locker.yanks-abroad.com/index.php?mode...

I'm pretty much giving you what you asked for, with respect to Jozy and Boyd. This is why your comments can't be taken serious. By your own standards, Jozy is proven to be a better choice than Boyd. But you won't accept it and constantly change your arguments because (as cudevil has put it)... hey, Europe!

bjelks
Post #15
Wednesday August 1, 2018 7:10pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 796
Original post from cudevil

Literally none of what you posted about Boyd is accurate. How do I know? Because he wasn't getting regular time for a mid-level second division team (that was only 3 points above the relegation playoff). Someone with the alleged skillset of Boyd wouldn't be a sometimes starter with a poor scoring rate. But hey, Europe!

And while some of Jozy's current value on the market has to do with his over-valued contract with TFC, you are absolutely certifiable if you don't think teams would value him at 3x the money of Boyd.


Jozy's quality is at or below the avg striker in Bundesliga 2 smh. Just because you are skilled, doesn't mean you will play or score. We've all established that Jozy was a sometime starter with a poor scoring rate for the worst teams in the premier league. So much so, that he was rated the worst premier league player of all time by a British paper. Boyd was also a sometime starter for a bottom Bundesliga side with a poor scoring rate, at least he was developed in one of the premier academies in the world and has a fundamental understanding of technique and tactics as well as the fortitude and belief to try to earn his place in a top league. That mentality that American players don't have to play in a top league to be rated for the national team is why American players are so soft and the biggest difference between us and world powers.

Essentially Jozy is at the level of a 2nd division player based on his reputation of being the worst premier league player ever and that's a result of not only his poor scoring rate, but his poor work rate and lack of technical quality. Also, being a regular has more to do with your favor with the manager and not your skill set. As stated the biggest difference between goal scoring and not is chances created by team and ability to create out of nothing. In Boyd's situation, his injuries and lack of chances created by team have played the biggest part in inconsistent play and scoring.
goalsense
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The final stretch of the English league season is upon us, with several Americans on the verge of relegation with their teams.
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