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Know Nothing
Post #1
Monday June 11, 2018 6:10pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,325
The Yedlin - Moore debate is an intriguing one so I decided to start it's own thread. They are the protagonists du jour for the starting role, but others may join the fray as well.

With the current group that has been playing recently I think Moore fits better because he is more effective with the ball. Yedlin is the better defender due to his slightly better athleticism and experience. So I think whoever starts can be determined by the opponent and how much we anticipate dictating play.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #2
Monday June 11, 2018 8:56pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 646
Moore has just had a couple of substitute appearances in La Liga this season.

Yedlin has 1 full season in the premier league and 1 full season in the Championship and 1 season on loan to regulation threatened Sunderland in the premier league where he helped them avoid regulation. A couple of friendly matches isn't really enough evidence to say anything about Moore one way or the other. His play looks promising but there is no clear evidence that he is better than Yedlin. My guess is that he is still a ways down on the depth chart until he becomes a regular starter in La Liga.

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #3
Monday June 11, 2018 10:18pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,373
I'd like to see where Lima will be in 2-3 years, especially as a wingback. He's tailor made for that role.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #4
Monday June 11, 2018 10:35pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 646
Original post from Kamphgruppe

Moore has just had a couple of substitute appearances in La Liga this season.

Yedlin has 1 full season in the premier league and 1 full season in the Championship and 1 season on loan to regulation threatened Sunderland in the premier league where he helped them avoid regulation. A couple of friendly matches isn't really enough evidence to say anything about Moore one way or the other. His play looks promising but there is no clear evidence that he is better than Yedlin. My guess is that he is still a ways down on the depth chart until he becomes a regular starter in La Liga.


relegation not regulation, Bleeping Spell check

bjelks
Post #5
Tuesday June 12, 2018 12:01am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 546
Moore has actually had a few starts in la Liga, but that has nothing to do with the fact that he's clearly better than Yedlin technically, which makes him better at turning defenders under pressure, going forward, and playing passes into tight spaces,
The problem with American fans is that we refuse to use our eyes or don't know what to look for when evaluating players.
goalsense
db707
Post #6
Tuesday June 12, 2018 12:54am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 513
Yes, because you know better than professional talent evaluators and can evaluate effectively based on some scattered club appearances, youth team highlights and selective memory of 1 national team start. The "debate" is moot until Moore becomes a full-time first team pro. He was injury cover for a brief period but was out of the picture again at season's end. He turns 22 later this year, if he doesn't break through at Levante this year, he might not make it there. Heaven forbid, he could end up back in MLS! The horror!

Dave
Post #7
Tuesday June 12, 2018 1:56am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 870
The debate will rage for a while. There are a number of promising prospects, especially at Wing-Back. But who claims the spot is likely still a year or two away, considering we still don't have a full time manager:

RB: Yedlin, Moore, Olosunde, Lichaj, Lima
LB: Villafana, Robinson, D. Acosta, Farfan, Saief

It's much too soon to determine who the starting backs will be 18-24 months from now.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #8
Tuesday June 12, 2018 2:26am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 646
Original post from bjelks

Moore has actually had a few starts in la Liga, but that has nothing to do with the fact that he's clearly better than Yedlin technically, which makes him better at turning defenders under pressure, going forward, and playing passes into tight spaces,
The problem with American fans is that we refuse to use our eyes or don't know what to look for when evaluating players.


I believe he did start one cup match when the regular starter got injured, you are correct. I am sorry he is not clearly better technically then yedlin. The problem with someone who assumes American fans don't know anything about soccer is they make foolish assumptions based on zero evidence and assume an air of superiority and attempt to talk down to others. Once again, it's like you don't even watch the matches.

bjelks
Post #9
Tuesday June 12, 2018 4:03am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 546
Original post from Kamphgruppe

I believe he did start one cup match when the regular starter got injured, you are correct. I am sorry he is not clearly better technically then yedlin. The problem with someone who assumes American fans don't know anything about soccer is they make foolish assumptions based on zero evidence and assume an air of superiority and attempt to talk down to others. Once again, it's like you don't even watch the matches.


It just seems very much of an Uneducated American fan to talk about games started when someone else mentions skill and technique, which has nothing to do with games started.

We've established that Yedlin plays regularly for Newcastle, because of his raw athleticism. We've also established that he uses this athleticism to compensate for technical shortcomings. As someone who's watched a lot of Yedlin games over the years, I can tell you he has tendencies to back pass, long ball, or turnover under pressure, which is the difference between a bottom tier premier league player and a Europa or Champs League player. They have better technique, so they are more comfortable with the ball under pressure. You don't need a large sample size from Moore to see this.
goalsense
db707
Post #10
Tuesday June 12, 2018 10:31am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 513
Original post from bjelks

It just seems very much of an Uneducated American fan to talk about games started when someone else mentions skill and technique, which has nothing to do with games started.


Insulting is what people do when they don't have a logical argument, and in this case, don't understand the opposing argument.

"We've established that Yedlin plays regularly for Newcastle, because of his raw athleticism. We've also established that he uses this athleticism to compensate for technical shortcomings." You established that and it is b.s. Clearly people at Spurs, then at Sunderland, then at Newcastle, saw enough technical skill in him to bring him on board and, with the latter two, play him in a key role while battling for a Premier League spot. You make Yedlin sound like Marvell Wynne, who never went to Europe at all but was one of the best pure athletes I've ever seen play for the U.S.

"As someone who's watched a lot of Yedlin games over the years, I can tell you he has tendencies to back pass, long ball, or turnover under pressure, which is the difference between a bottom tier premier league player and a Europa or Champs League player. They have better technique, so they are more comfortable with the ball under pressure. You don't need a large sample size from Moore to see this." Comparing Yedlin to a Champions League level player is irrelevant, we're comparing him to Moore. And the games started point is relevant there because Moore isn't fully established as a first-team pro, while Yedlin is. Your assessment is moot until Moore actually is playing regular first-team soccer. We're not calling him in for the 2019 Gold Cup if he spends most of the year in the Tercera Division again.

bjelks
Post #11
Tuesday June 12, 2018 1:57pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 546
I'm sorry, but I'm not trying to be insulting. However, football fans from other countries do not need a resume to use their eyes and assess player technique.

Robinson hasn't played as many 1st team pro games or international games as Villafana, but it's easy to see Robinson is better.

You don't need to see 10 yrs of games to see Mckennie covers more ground, is better trapping and passing under pressure, winning 50/50 balls, forcing turnovers and is a better tackler than Bradley.

It doesn't take 50+ intl games from Danny Williams to see he's quicker, faster, stronger, technical better than Kyle Beckerman.

US has some better players than we've ever had, we can play more technical, and we have to stop being so conservative if we're going to get better.
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #12
Tuesday June 12, 2018 3:16pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 579
Original post from bjelks

Moore has actually had a few starts in la Liga, but that has nothing to do with the fact that he's clearly better than Yedlin technically, which makes him better at turning defenders under pressure, going forward, and playing passes into tight spaces,
The problem with American fans is that we refuse to use our eyes or don't know what to look for when evaluating players.
I don't know what you've watched, but from what I have seen, Moore has a tendency to make mistakes. This happens with young players, and thats to be expected. This happened with Yedlin at the beginning too. But Moore tends to make clumsy challenges, dive in when he shouldn't, and make poor mistakes/decisions.

Moore has some good athleticism, but to say that hes clearly better than Yedlin is ridiculous. Yedlin has years of experience playing professionally, has played years in MLS, the Premier League, as well as the Championship. He is a consistent starter in the most difficult league in the world and has played in a WC. He is faster, stronger, bigger, makes less mistakes, more versatile moving forward, and has ore experience. At this point in time, Yedlin > Moore. Plain and simple. There really is no argument.

Lilshmike
Post #13
Tuesday June 12, 2018 3:21pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 579
Original post from bjelks

I'm sorry, but I'm not trying to be insulting. However, football fans from other countries do not need a resume to use their eyes and assess player technique.

Robinson hasn't played as many 1st team pro games or international games as Villafana, but it's easy to see Robinson is better.

You don't need to see 10 yrs of games to see Mckennie covers more ground, is better trapping and passing under pressure, winning 50/50 balls, forcing turnovers and is a better tackler than Bradley.

It doesn't take 50+ intl games from Danny Williams to see he's quicker, faster, stronger, technical better than Kyle Beckerman.

US has some better players than we've ever had, we can play more technical, and we have to stop being so conservative if we're going to get better.
I agree, Robinson is better than Villafana. Villafana is average at best, and Robinson seems to be better and have a higher upside.

Again, you have to put things in perspective. Yeah, Williams is better than Beckerman... right now. But 4 years ago, at the last WC, Williams was not. He was a better athlete, but he made too may mistakes, gave the ball away too much, gave up too many fouls, and roamed the field too much. Beckerman knew his role, didn't make many mistakes, and was disciplined in his position. As a holding mid, thats what you want. Yeah, he was slow and not as athletic as Williams, but at that point in time he was better for the position and role that was needed for the USMNT.

Lilshmike
Post #14
Tuesday June 12, 2018 3:22pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 579
Original post from db707

Insulting is what people do when they don't have a logical argument, and in this case, don't understand the opposing argument.

"We've established that Yedlin plays regularly for Newcastle, because of his raw athleticism. We've also established that he uses this athleticism to compensate for technical shortcomings." You established that and it is b.s. Clearly people at Spurs, then at Sunderland, then at Newcastle, saw enough technical skill in him to bring him on board and, with the latter two, play him in a key role while battling for a Premier League spot. You make Yedlin sound like Marvell Wynne, who never went to Europe at all but was one of the best pure athletes I've ever seen play for the U.S.

"As someone who's watched a lot of Yedlin games over the years, I can tell you he has tendencies to back pass, long ball, or turnover under pressure, which is the difference between a bottom tier premier league player and a Europa or Champs League player. They have better technique, so they are more comfortable with the ball under pressure. You don't need a large sample size from Moore to see this." Comparing Yedlin to a Champions League level player is irrelevant, we're comparing him to Moore. And the games started point is relevant there because Moore isn't fully established as a first-team pro, while Yedlin is. Your assessment is moot until Moore actually is playing regular first-team soccer. We're not calling him in for the 2019 Gold Cup if he spends most of the year in the Tercera Division again.
+1

This post is spot on.

bjelks
Post #15
Tuesday June 12, 2018 4:35pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 546
Yedlin isn't bigger than Moore. Moore is actually taller and weighs more. Moore is just as fast. Yedlin's lack of discipline earned him a red card against Paraguay in the last Copa making a reckless challenge when he could have used his speed to get back in a defensive position.
He's absolutely not more versatile going forward. Like I stated, no matter what league he's in, he has a tendency to back pass, turnover or long ball under pressure. No matter how much experience he has, his technique will not improve at this pt and he will never be more comfortable with the ball at this feet. If a defender stands him up, his tendency is to back pass. Moore trusts his technique to turn defenders. I'm not saying Yedlin isn't a useful player for us but Moore has much more upside and you can see it with his he handles being pressured.

With Beckerman, I rather someone who makes a mistake trying to make a play like D Will rather than someone who makes a mistake because they are too slow, too weak, lacking quickness, or technique. When you have more ability like D Will, you can roam more because you have the ability to recover and you make the team better because you add an offensive threat and another body that can press. DWill is the same player he was 4 yrs ago, he just plays in the premier league today so he has higher profile. The reason he didn't play in prem 4 yrs ago wasn't ability, but favor with a prem Manager so he had to prove himself in championship.

Soccer is not complicated. The team with the combination of best athletes, skill, and discipline will win.
goalsense
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