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Samtom23
Post #76
Monday July 27, 2020 3:05pm

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 373
Original post from hamsamwich

I'm pretty sure everyone has given you their reasons for Morris which you either don't like or don't agree to: makes the right runs, is faster to the ball than the defender, and then can shoot with either foot to score. Most have said he's not our ideal player and would like to see a healthy Weah play over him.

Lederman and Gaines are not good enough but what do they have to do with Konrad? If he ended up like Traore from wolves that would still be good enough. Dos Santos was a dual nat for Mexico who they felt they had to cap tie. But we aren't in that position.


Apologies, I didn't give enough context. Recently read the article about Mckennzie Gaines. He was signed not for development but to challenge the younger prospects, it seems. Wonder if that was the same situation with Konrad? I do hope he continues doing well and breaks into the first team. He is younger and it could be completely different. And it could be that Konrad himself has reached a point of development where he explodes onto the scene, so to speak. Ledermen was just a tale of caution. It was interesting learning of his trouble with FIFA and how that costs him development time.

https://sbisoccer.com/2020/07/hannover-signs-...

bjelks
Post #77
Monday July 27, 2020 8:29pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,679
Original post from hamsamwich

I'm pretty sure everyone has given you their reasons for Morris which you either don't like or don't agree to: makes the right runs, is faster to the ball than the defender, and then can shoot with either foot to score. Most have said he's not our ideal player and would like to see a healthy Weah play over him.

Lederman and Gaines are not good enough but what do they have to do with Konrad? If he ended up like Traore from wolves that would still be good enough. Dos Santos was a dual nat for Mexico who they felt they had to cap tie. But we aren't in that position.


I think making the right runs is a basic trait of a competent professional wing.
Being faster to the ball than the defender for Morris really depends on the level of play he's against.
Usually he's faster to the ball than very low level defenders which doesn't help the natl team.
I don't agree that Morris shoots well with either foot especially the left. He's not really known for his bangers even in 3rd tier mls.

I can't quantify how many USMNT fans value Morris as a player and thinks he belongs in the 23, but I can tell you that they are probably huge supporters of mls and believe it is a higher level than people outside of USA believe it is.

I think if we're to ever get to a level where we can take the game to top teams, we can't keep calling guys at Morris' level. We have to raise our standards and stop hyping guys for doing basic things against low level competition. I wouldn't say we're above calling arguably the top Barca reserve. We've called and started much worse players, don't believe me watch the Canada loss.
goalsense
Samtom23
Post #78
Tuesday July 28, 2020 3:28am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 373
Original post from bjelks

I think making the right runs is a basic trait of a competent professional wing.
Being faster to the ball than the defender for Morris really depends on the level of play he's against.
Usually he's faster to the ball than very low level defenders which doesn't help the natl team.
I don't agree that Morris shoots well with either foot especially the left. He's not really known for his bangers even in 3rd tier mls.

I can't quantify how many USMNT fans value Morris as a player and thinks he belongs in the 23, but I can tell you that they are probably huge supporters of mls and believe it is a higher level than people outside of USA believe it is.

I think if we're to ever get to a level where we can take the game to top teams, we can't keep calling guys at Morris' level. We have to raise our standards and stop hyping guys for doing basic things against low level competition. I wouldn't say we're above calling arguably the top Barca reserve. We've called and started much worse players, don't believe me watch the Canada loss.


The overall strategy failed in the Canada loss and the European players had more to do with Mexico scoring. Boyd not marking his man for the first goal, McKenzie playing it back to Steffen In dangerous territory, Morales simply being ran past for the third goal.

And instead of bashing the MLS. You should be seeking to raise its standard. That means keeping young talent domestically and abroad. Why should we rely on the Barca's, Dortmund's, Bayern to develop our national team talent? Also, not only the players benefit from MLS but there is local job creation from the vendors to the executives. You want to grow the sport in USA? Then, quit bashing the league and it's players. You can revel in the success in our foreign players but don't but proven results over unproven potential.

And about Konrad you said so yourself he doesn't finish in the final third. So why am I going to select him over Morris? Because he looks pretty when he dribbles? Put the ball in the back of the net, Morris has more of a proven history. And if Konrad was ready he would've lit up U20 World Cup. So you want to promote him to the full USMNT when he didn't earn it? All you see when you see Konrad is BARCA, BARCA, BARCA. If Konrad was ready he would've destroyed the U20 World Cup. So if he cannot perform against the world's best U20 how can he compete with the 23-30 year olds, he will be facing. You can go look at Global football rankings but you want find any results, but you can look at the U-20 and have a better idea of where he is at.

hamsamwich
Post #79
Tuesday July 28, 2020 5:16am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,321
making the right run is the job of the wing I agree but unfortunately we've had too many Americans whether in MLS or before this time, mostly abroad, look suspect at doing just that. So just because we now have a guy that competently does that I'm not going to bash it. Making that run off the ball and taking guys one v one yes sure for the highest level guys they do both with ease but take your Mahrez for example he doesn't really make that run in behind, but he's screative as hell one v one. USA think of a bofo saucedo. What I'm saying is Pulisic aside we don't have anyone who makes that run. Maybe timmy Weah who I would love to see but he's basically missed a year of soccer.
Scoring bangers I don't think anyone is asking that. How many bangers does Raheem sterling score? I mostly see him beating defenders to a spot by being faster mentally and physically and then making good contact somewhere between the penalty spot and 6 yard box. So no I don't need a banger I just need someone to make good solid contact with good placement and it will go in. Again I'd love to see Weah get that chance I'm pretty sure he has the recognition and speed to get to those spots and the technique with either foot to score it.
Calling Konrad Barca's top reserve is stretching it just a bit. I think that's what people don't get. Nobody is saying he isn't good. But you're making him out to be something he's not.

bjelks
Post #80
Tuesday July 28, 2020 2:18pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,679
Original post from Samtom23

The overall strategy failed in the Canada loss and the European players had more to do with Mexico scoring. Boyd not marking his man for the first goal, McKenzie playing it back to Steffen In dangerous territory, Morales simply being ran past for the third goal.

And instead of bashing the MLS. You should be seeking to raise its standard. That means keeping young talent domestically and abroad. Why should we rely on the Barca's, Dortmund's, Bayern to develop our national team talent? Also, not only the players benefit from MLS but there is local job creation from the vendors to the executives. You want to grow the sport in USA? Then, quit bashing the league and it's players. You can revel in the success in our foreign players but don't but proven results over unproven potential.

And about Konrad you said so yourself he doesn't finish in the final third. So why am I going to select him over Morris? Because he looks pretty when he dribbles? Put the ball in the back of the net, Morris has more of a proven history. And if Konrad was ready he would've lit up U20 World Cup. So you want to promote him to the full USMNT when he didn't earn it? All you see when you see Konrad is BARCA, BARCA, BARCA. If Konrad was ready he would've destroyed the U20 World Cup. So if he cannot perform against the world's best U20 how can he compete with the 23-30 year olds, he will be facing. You can go look at Global football rankings but you want find any results, but you can look at the U-20 and have a better idea of where he is at.


So much to unpack and I haven't had my coffee. But I disagree with all of this lol.
We lose The game to Canada bc Gregg doesn't pick the right team. When you put guys on the field from a league like mls where the intensity and technical quality isnt very high you ruin the standard of the overall team and create disorganization in the team. When you play top players with other top players there's obviously more cohesion than when you play with them with 3rd tier talent like mls.

I've never bashed mls, that's a ridiculous assertion to make. I stated facts about its level compared to the global standard and how their players perform against top and even mediocre competition.
I think that if you want to improve mls you should call mls what it is instead of hyping so you dont get your hopes up, while bringing better players abroad down. Again I think you think the national team should be some sort of pay to play country club and not a seriously competitive program.
For the record, I don't care where our players play or develop as long as they come from the most competitive environment. We all know mls isn't that. The academy route like Kayo or the leave at 18 route like Adams is good, but players that stay in mls after 21 usually don't have the profile to be top players.

MLS is a developmental league that should be used for selling guys under 21, after that players are useless for the full natl team. If you want to raise the mls standard, you should be talking about pro/ rel, intercontinental play, single table format. Anything but what you're doing which is mindlessly hyping a product without asking for anything from it.

Lol I've never said Konrad doesn't finish. Like where did you even come up with this? I may have said Ruud says he needs to score more to get to Barca's 1st team, but he has everything right now to be better than Morris. Your opinion is Morris has a more proven history bc you're impressed with mls and concacaf play which means nothing on the global level. Just trying to educate you.
And no, Konrad's U20 performance has nothing to do with how well he played with Barca B in the playoff, he was among their top 3 highest rated players.

I share all this info with you and choose to go awol and spew madness anyway lol. I care about winning, you care more about promoting mls, which I think makes you less credible.
goalsense
bjelks
Post #81
Tuesday July 28, 2020 2:44pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,679
Original post from hamsamwich

making the right run is the job of the wing I agree but unfortunately we've had too many Americans whether in MLS or before this time, mostly abroad, look suspect at doing just that. So just because we now have a guy that competently does that I'm not going to bash it. Making that run off the ball and taking guys one v one yes sure for the highest level guys they do both with ease but take your Mahrez for example he doesn't really make that run in behind, but he's screative as hell one v one. USA think of a bofo saucedo. What I'm saying is Pulisic aside we don't have anyone who makes that run. Maybe timmy Weah who I would love to see but he's basically missed a year of soccer.
Scoring bangers I don't think anyone is asking that. How many bangers does Raheem sterling score? I mostly see him beating defenders to a spot by being faster mentally and physically and then making good contact somewhere between the penalty spot and 6 yard box. So no I don't need a banger I just need someone to make good solid contact with good placement and it will go in. Again I'd love to see Weah get that chance I'm pretty sure he has the recognition and speed to get to those spots and the technique with either foot to score it.
Calling Konrad Barca's top reserve is stretching it just a bit. I think that's what people don't get. Nobody is saying he isn't good. But you're making him out to be something he's not.


I'm not hyping Konrad as anything more than a Barca reserve right now and I believe it's a bigger achievement to play for Barca B than to play for the Sounders. I also believe like I've stated that Konrad is among the 5-6 wingers that are better than Morris, not that Konrad is a for sure starter.
I'll add that Sterling can and does score bangers from range and Morris doesn't. Just last night, Morris was played off the field by an mls team lol.
And again I'll say we have several wingers that move off ball and create with the ball better than him and Morris is an example of pay to play privilege and domestic hype not quality or merit.

This Barca scout calls Konrad Barca B's top talent at attacker and says he could be on the Fati trajectory.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jr0tz2lYW3U
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #82
Tuesday July 28, 2020 3:35pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,425
Original post from bjelks

I'm not hyping Konrad as anything more than a Barca reserve right now and I believe it's a bigger achievement to play for Barca B than to play for the Sounders. I also believe like I've stated that Konrad is among the 5-6 wingers that are better than Morris, not that Konrad is a for sure starter.
I'll add that Sterling can and does score bangers from range and Morris doesn't. Just last night, Morris was played off the field by an mls team lol.
And again I'll say we have several wingers that move off ball and create with the ball better than him and Morris is an example of pay to play privilege and domestic hype not quality or merit.

This Barca scout calls Konrad Barca B's top talent at attacker and says he could be on the Fati trajectory.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jr0tz2lYW3U
Hate to point out the obvious here (who am I kidding, I love doing this), but...

Ansu Fati is 17
Konrad de la Fuente is 19

Calling it for what it is at face value... no, Konrad is not on the Fati trajectory. Objectively, he is already 2 years behind the curve. Fati has been featuring for the Barca senior team. Konrad is not. Fati has been rumored the subject of $100m+ bids. Konrad has not been anywhere in the same realm.

Lets come back down to earth here and not cement our feet in the sand and argue a moot point until we are blue in the face and make ourselves look like idiots.

General consensus by most here... Konrad is a promising youth prospect. Just that... promising and young. Not saying he won't get there at some point, but if we had a must win, WCQ tomorrow, I highly doubt many would put Konrad in the 23 man roster (let alone the starting 11) and would be willing to seriously bet that most would slot in Morris somewhere in the 23 at the very least.

Slow down the hype train. The kid is still developing... and playing in the 3rd division of Spain... which is basically the USL. Come on guys.

hamsamwich
Post #83
Tuesday July 28, 2020 3:54pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,321
I'm gonna say Konrad plays in the developmental league, where the players are there to get better.

On the other hand, MLS is not that. Hell, my Chicago team still don't have a second team, so that's a hard statement to make. I think the MLS mostly reflects the average American player, while trying to be a competitive option to attract a casual fan. For its European imports its a life away from the pressure and media. But it's not a developmental league. Maybe for a few teams yes but for the majority, no. That's what we would like it to be, but it's not. Nobody around the world sends their players here to develop them. That's just not true.

The real question is which MLS guy can produce and hang with their more talented counterparts who play overseas? Morris? Yes. Long? Maybe. Yueill? We will see. Aaronson? Looks the part. McKenzie? I think so. Pomykal? Yes.... anyone else?

Samtom23
Post #84
Tuesday July 28, 2020 5:52pm

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 373
Original post from hamsamwich

I'm gonna say Konrad plays in the developmental league, where the players are there to get better.

On the other hand, MLS is not that. Hell, my Chicago team still don't have a second team, so that's a hard statement to make. I think the MLS mostly reflects the average American player, while trying to be a competitive option to attract a casual fan. For its European imports its a life away from the pressure and media. But it's not a developmental league. Maybe for a few teams yes but for the majority, no. That's what we would like it to be, but it's not. Nobody around the world sends their players here to develop them. That's just not true.

The real question is which MLS guy can produce and hang with their more talented counterparts who play overseas? Morris? Yes. Long? Maybe. Yueill? We will see. Aaronson? Looks the part. McKenzie? I think so. Pomykal? Yes.... anyone else?


Possibly George Bello but I think to early to say.

bjelks
Post #85
Wednesday July 29, 2020 1:41am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,679
Lol the only way you can prove someone can hang with players at a higher level is by actually letting them prove it at that higher level.
Otherwise it's just opinions vs opinions. The problem with Morris and Long is that you say they can without them actually proving anything.

There are 3 types of players in MLS: 1) the euro players looking for a retirement check 2) the young players looking to develop, 3) and the career 3rd tier player that knows his career is going nowhere. I would say the global football community looks at MLS' value as a farm for cheap transfers.

Also, Konrad will be training with the first team tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/futureusmnt/status/128824...
goalsense
hamsamwich
Post #86
Wednesday July 29, 2020 3:56am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,321
I'm talking about when the players are called into the senior national team do they make a difference or just exist on the field? Do they fit in with their teammates who play overseas or don't they? I'll agree with @samtom here. At the u20s (which is admittedly not the best judge but it provides the only context we have) Konrad looked out of place alongside his teammates (guys like Dest or Richards or Soto or even Ledezma or Mendez). Llanez who was on the bench behind Konrad looked like an upgrade every single time. Giving Konrad all the benefit of the doubt, he needs to be called into a camp to see if he can hang with his senior national team teammates- that's pretty much the only way and first step. And so if Konrads parents didn't move to Spain and he didn't have the passport and his name was some MLS name you'd say he sucks.

hamsamwich
Post #87
Wednesday July 29, 2020 4:32am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,321
I'm not vouching for Long as I would for Morris because he doesn't consistent produce. Morris has lasted three USMNT coaches who are all very different. Not sure if he was hurt during the Sarachan year or not off the top of my head but Jurgen called him up from college where he looked good against Germany and Holland. And up to Gregg now calling him in. All the MLS guys are not eh same but to be fair Long has wanted a move but he can't get one because of a lot of arcane MLS rules so no I don't think they are all the same. Konrad is in the right place for him right now because he had the passport to be. But don't downgrade and lump together all the MLS guys as the don't have that passport and are in a different situation.

Samtom23
Post #88
Wednesday July 29, 2020 9:18am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 373
Original post from bjelks

Lol the only way you can prove someone can hang with players at a higher level is by actually letting them prove it at that higher level.
Otherwise it's just opinions vs opinions. The problem with Morris and Long is that you say they can without them actually proving anything.

There are 3 types of players in MLS: 1) the euro players looking for a retirement check 2) the young players looking to develop, 3) and the career 3rd tier player that knows his career is going nowhere. I would say the global football community looks at MLS' value as a farm for cheap transfers.

Also, Konrad will be training with the first team tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/futureusmnt/status/128824...


Konrad just completed his season. Why wouldn't he be used in training? It would be noteworthy if they called him up in season.

And there are a lot of young faces in MLS now. The Lewis Morgans and the Jurgen Damms. Morgan is 23 and on the Scottish National Team. Jurgen Damm is 27 and was used in Mexico, if he performs he might very well be again. You can call me crazy but I think tops MLS teams can finish between 5-15 in the Premier League.

bjelks
Post #89
Wednesday July 29, 2020 1:01pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,679
Original post from Samtom23

Konrad just completed his season. Why wouldn't he be used in training? It would be noteworthy if they called him up in season.

And there are a lot of young faces in MLS now. The Lewis Morgans and the Jurgen Damms. Morgan is 23 and on the Scottish National Team. Jurgen Damm is 27 and was used in Mexico, if he performs he might very well be again. You can call me crazy but I think tops MLS teams can finish between 5-15 in the Premier League.


I'm not calling you crazy, I'm calling you foolish and ignorant.
You're making an idiotic claim that mls teams that are on average worth 20 mil less than the avg Championship team can even win the Championship based on pure fanboydem.
You bring up 2 scrubs, 1 is a fringe player on a mediocre national team and the other a fringe player on a trash national team to try to prove that mls could play in the prem.
This is beyond laughable. We get it, you like MLS for no other reason than it's your domestic league. But at this point, it's clear you're either trolling or don't know what you're talking about so I'm just going to try to refrain from engaging.

This mls is back tournament has been awful outside of LAFC. If you can't acknowledge that, I can't respect anything you say. Speed of game, space, time on the ball, quality of overall play is well below even the Championship standard.
https://twitter.com/3four3/status/12882894229...
goalsense
bjelks
Post #90
Wednesday July 29, 2020 1:16pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,679
Original post from hamsamwich

I'm not vouching for Long as I would for Morris because he doesn't consistent produce. Morris has lasted three USMNT coaches who are all very different. Not sure if he was hurt during the Sarachan year or not off the top of my head but Jurgen called him up from college where he looked good against Germany and Holland. And up to Gregg now calling him in. All the MLS guys are not eh same but to be fair Long has wanted a move but he can't get one because of a lot of arcane MLS rules so no I don't think they are all the same. Konrad is in the right place for him right now because he had the passport to be. But don't downgrade and lump together all the MLS guys as the don't have that passport and are in a different situation.


When I watch Long, his 1st touch, passing, recognition of danger, even 1v1 defending lacks and this is against MLS competition. I'm not just saying bc he's an mls player, he's not useful. He has major holes in his game that are glaring against mediocre pressure as evidenced by Canada, Mexico, Venezuela. It's not about a passport, it's about profile and development. America doesn't know how to develop or doesn't have the environment to develop top talent so players that stay in America too long, usually aren't as polished.

Morris has been called by several US coaches, true. So has Beckerman, Wondolowsi, Omar Gonzalez, Villafana. They all have 1 thing in common, they all sucked. He's played against Germany and Holland, that doesn't mean he made an impact against them. Just bc he was good enough 3 yrs ago doesn't mean he's good enough today with the improvement of the pool. And when you say he's consistent, you can't leave out the context that he's been productive against bad teams and consistently unproductive against mediocre teams being Mexico and teams in tough situations like Canada.
goalsense
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