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bjelks
Post #91
Friday March 9, 2018 2:40pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 546
Saief, Robinson, EPB should be no brainers...Sargent can have zardes or Jozy spot
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #92
Friday March 9, 2018 3:45pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 579
Original post from bjelks

Saief, Robinson, EPB should be no brainers...Sargent can have zardes or Jozy spot

To anyone calling for Josh Sargent to be included... thats absolutely ridiculous.

The kid has never played any 1st team professional football in his life and made his name in a U-17/U-20 tournament. He does not deserve a call up, is not good enough yet to warrant a call up, and should not even be considered over anyone who is actually playing first team football professionally.

Not to say he won't be good enough in the future or anything like that. BUT AT THIS TIME it is ridiculous to even call for the kid to be in when he hasn't even played against grown adults yet.

Know Nothing
Post #93
Friday March 9, 2018 4:49pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,324
Original post from Lilshmike

To anyone calling for Josh Sargent to be included... thats absolutely ridiculous.

The kid has never played any 1st team professional football in his life and made his name in a U-17/U-20 tournament. He does not deserve a call up, is not good enough yet to warrant a call up, and should not even be considered over anyone who is actually playing first team football professionally.

Not to say he won't be good enough in the future or anything like that. BUT AT THIS TIME it is ridiculous to even call for the kid to be in when he hasn't even played against grown adults yet.


True, he has never played first team football.

However nobody is saying play him, they are saying bring him in to camp to acclimatize him to the nats then release him before the match to return to training.

Know Nothing
Post #94
Friday March 9, 2018 5:01pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,324
We can afford to experiment with a younger team since none of our matches will be meaningful for a while.

From 2Tones suggested roster I would add Robinson and drop Villafana, drop Corona or Trapp and add Scott, drop Zardes and add Saief, drop Chandler and add Moore, add EPB

hamsamwich
Post #95
Friday March 9, 2018 5:57pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,594
Sargent should've made the gold cup roster that's how good of a player he is. Green went to a World Cup and scored in a similar situation. As @dolcem said on a different thread, other countries push their players more. Arena had no concern of Sargents future and if the kid was a dual he would've went the way of Gonzalez. When a player stands out above his peers at not only his level (U-17), but three ages above that (U-20), other countries would have boosted him to the full national team. And that was almost a year ago already.

Mental ability trumps physical and technical ability (both of which Sargent has in abundance) every time. Until he turned 18, he could not sign a contract and was not eligible for the second half of the bundesliga for that reason, not because he is/is not talented. Josh Sargent is one of the five or six best American players right now, regardless of his status with Werder Bremen. Tim Weah had a passport and so was able to go to PSG right away, and people want him to get a look. Side by side, Sargent blows Weah out of the water for anyone who has seen the two play. He's the best forward I have seen produced at his age in the USA and that's by a large margin.

Lilshmike
Post #96
Friday March 9, 2018 10:50pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 579
@hamsamwich

I respectfully disagree with a number of points you made.
  • Some (top) countries tend to push their kids more, yes... when those kids are regularly playing top flight football
  • Green went to a WC, yes... but we all know that it was because Klinsmann wanted him to commit to USMNT over Germany (and look how well Green has turned out so far)
  • Standing out at the lower ages doesn't mean a player should/will get boosted to the senior team (taking England as an example, Phil Foden stood out, but not called into the senior team. Why? Hes not playing first team football. Marcus Rashford was... after playing regularly at ManU)
  • Relating the previous point to the USMNT - Freddy Adu, Danny Szetela, Gale Agbossumonde, etc. stood out above their peers at the u-17/u-20 levels... where are they now?
  • Josh Sargent is not one of the top 5/6 players we have right now. Altidore, Wood, Pulisic, Johnson, Dwyer, Dempsey, Williams, McKennie, Saief, etc. are all better than him. Aron Johannsson, who is at the same club as Sargent, plays the same position, and actually plays and gets minutes for the first team instead of the youth/reserves, is also better than him.
  • Relating to the previous point, if you were to have put any one of those guys in at the u-17/u-20 WC, from where they are right now, they would have destroyed those kids and stood out

Sargent did well in the u-20 WC, but sub par in the u-17 WC considering what the expectations were. Lets be realistic here... calling kids on youth teams without any first team experience into the national team would make the USMNT look like a joke. Its one thing directly after a youth WC as a reward (like the one call-up Sargent got), but after going to a professional club in Europe and having yet to even break the bench on the first team... thats makes us look like a joke and is a slap in the face to other, better, and more deserving players.

Lilshmike
Post #97
Friday March 9, 2018 10:58pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 579
Again, not saying that Sargent isn't good, talented, or a promising prospect. But at this point in time, we have better players and players who deserve it more. The moment Sargent starts getting minutes for Werder Bremen, I will be right there with you guys to call him in. But he has yet to do that, so he shouldn't be considered over the number of guys we have in front of him in the ST pool right now:
  • Altidore
  • Wood
  • Johannsson
  • Dwyer
  • Agudelo
  • Rubin
  • Ramirez
  • Boyd
  • Green
  • Even Novakovich and Siebatcheu


Lilshmike
Post #98
Friday March 9, 2018 11:16pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 579
This friendly is not serious, we don't have a manager, and its going to be played at a crappy venue. Theres no urgency to integrate youth at this time when the current coach (hopefully) will be out the door shortly and an entirely new staff with roll in and start from fresh in a few months. But it would be good to have some younger guys who have already had exposure to the senior team called in. This is the perfect, and legitimately only, time though to have a farewell for some of the older guys. If it were me, the roster would go like this:

GK: Howard, Steffen, Guzan/Bono
Def: Garza, Beasley, CCV/Parker, Cameron, Miazga, Brooks, Yedlin, Chandler/Lichaj/Moore
Mid: Saief, Manneh, Arriola, Pulisic, Bradley, Williams, Acosta, Delgado/Parks/Hyndman/Adams/Nagbe
Fwd: Dempsey, Johannsson, Altidore, Dwyer/Wood

Notes:
Beasley, Howard, Cameron, Dempsey - Let them play their last game, at home in front of a USA crowd, then move on in the summer to start a clean slate during the friendlies in Europe. Let Deuce get a shot at the record.
Chandler/Lichaj/Moore - I would only call one of those guys in. Chandler has been playing well, but doesn't seem to really care about the USMNT tbh.
Guzan/Bono - Figure out if Guzan is going to be in the picture in 2022. I think he should be, and if so, call him in. Otherwise, go with Bono.
McKennie - coming back from injury, no need to call him in. We know what he can do, he is in the picture moving forward
Anyone playing in CCL - depending on how MLS progresses, adjust some of the names on the list
Jermaine Jones - I'd call him in to be one of the old guys to send off... but his attitude has been irking me, and him running his mouth doesn't help. No sense in rewarding bad behavior.

navi8132
New York
Post #99
Friday March 9, 2018 11:43pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 2,951
People are forgetting Antonee Robinson at LB.

hamsamwich
Post #100
Saturday March 10, 2018 12:07am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,594
That's a lot to respond to. In your opinion, those guys are better. But not a fact.

Altidore- seen him a bunch of times, I'm a fan of his compared to most of the fan base.
Wood- I backed him when others did not (bob wood) in the fan base... injuries have stalled his career and could end it. Playing in a meaningless friendly is a waste of time. When on top form he's our current best striker but he's a long way away.
Johansson- a natural player with too many injuries to count on. He was the one selected by klinsmann ahead of Donovan and he blew his chance that year as he was injured. More of an attacker than a striker.
Dwyer- is this a joke? Come on.
Agudelo- inconsistent, we all thought he was destined for greatness. Still has a chance but is spinning his wheels.
Rubin- I mean he hasn't done anything as a professional.
Ramirez- late bloomer and should start this Paraguay game if it was up to me.
Boyd- needs to stay healthy. Fun guy, used to be a prospect.
Green- you can't argue against, and the for the same guy. Stayed too long at Bayern but proved that youth and inexperience are not a deterrent to being called up. Needs to become a consistent player though.
Novakovich- we were robbed when Reading didn't release him a few years ago for the u20 and we were short a target man. But that's what he is, a target man.
Siebatcheu- isn't even an American player yet. Sure call him in. I know next to nothing of him but he is an exciting prospect.

The only guy on the list with a similar tool set to Sargent is Agudelo who has for the most part failed mentally. I do not see a single name you listed that is any better than Sargent is right now. I could play the same game and say Clint Dempsey is still far and away our best attacker not named Pulisic but he is just a national team sub in the future. The time to look ahead is now.

hamsamwich
Post #101
Saturday March 10, 2018 12:38am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,594
As for the roster itself- I would call a mix of veterans and youth.

--- Ramirez ----
Saief - Clint - Arriola
-- Adams - Williams
Robinson - Parker - Miazga - Yedlin
---- Steffen ---
Subs: CCV, EPB, Parks, Manneh, Sapong, Agudelo

GK- all things being equal, with all MLS keepers there, I'm going with Steffen to start.

D- with Brooks not ready, someone must start next to Miazga. Tim Parker sounds like a good choice to me. I'd call in Robinson too.

M- a 4-2-3-1 likely being the scenario, I'd bring in Tyler Adams for the injured Kellyn Acosta. Let him get some run with Danny Williams in behind the withdrawn forward. Pulisic should stay in Germany, and so I would like to see Saief on the left and Arriola right.

F- Christian Ramirez deserves the shot to play. I would have Clint Dempsey out there with him as he can still provide minutes and a leadership role. (Johansson would be my choice but with him finally getting back into the first team at Bremen it would be unwise to risk his new position.)

GK- Steffen, Robles, Bono
D- Robinson, Beasley, Parker, CCV, Miazga, EPB, Yedlin, Moore
M- Williams, Adams. Stanko, Parks, Saief, Green, Arriola, Manneh
F- Ramirez, Sapong, Dempsey, Agudelo, Sargent

bjelks
Post #102
Saturday March 10, 2018 12:40am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 546
The way to make our program look like a joke is to continue to call washed up players like Jozy, Demps (with all due respect) or never was like Dwyer with no upside...
This program needs to push players to challenge themselves and not reward mediocrity and complacency.
goalsense
chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #103
Saturday March 10, 2018 5:31am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,373
Imo, Sargent's maturity and soccer IQ are near Pulisic level. Even though he hasn't proven himself at the club level yet, that doesn't mean he shouldn't have the chance to prove his level with the nats. Imo, his overall game is better than most of those guys on the list. I only hope he has the chance to prove it.

navi8132
New York
Post #104
Saturday March 10, 2018 7:35pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 2,951
Weah with 2 games with PSG these last few weeks, I think he should be called up. I see no reason to call up older strikers. This whole year should just be youth. I don't want the older players to pass on their culture to the young.

Dave
Post #105
Saturday March 10, 2018 10:51pm

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 870
With only 1 game set for March, and some of our players just returning from injuries, I'm hoping we'll see something along the following called up for this game:

Striker: Wood, ArJo, Sargent, Zardes/Dwyer
LM: Saief, Green, Manneh/Amon
CM: Pulisic, Lletget, Parks
RM: Arriola, Scott, Lennon
CDM: Williams, Adams (Parks)
LB: Villafana, Robinson
LCB: Zimmerman, Glad
RCB: CCV, EPB/Birnbaum
RB: Yedlin, Moore
GK: Steffen, Gonzalez, Hamid/Horvath

Leave McKennie & Brooks out since they've had injuries lately. Bring them in for the May/June friendlies.

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