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goods
Post #1
Monday February 12, 2018 10:24pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 555
He got his first start in Belgium in a 1-1 draw.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #2
Tuesday February 13, 2018 3:09am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,590
Sweet! Good luck to him. Might see him called up in March.

hamsamwich
Post #3
Wednesday February 14, 2018 2:11pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,599
Palmer-Brown was failed by MLS and SKC and Peter Vermes. He's the exact example of a guy who wasted three years of a career because MLS owned his rights. He's the reason Sargent didn't even think about going to SKC- no playing time. It seems like young Chris Durkin from D.C. is about to follow that path, sad. I saw EPB make his debut in person and he should've been playing much more since that day, rather than rotting on a bench.

He can make up for lost time, but had he gone to Juve two and a half years ago or whatever he'd be a lot better and closer to his true level. I hate don garber.

Lilshmike
Post #4
Wednesday February 14, 2018 3:19pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 586
Original post from hamsamwich

Palmer-Brown was failed by MLS and SKC and Peter Vermes. He's the exact example of a guy who wasted three years of a career because MLS owned his rights. He's the reason Sargent didn't even think about going to SKC- no playing time. It seems like young Chris Durkin from D.C. is about to follow that path, sad. I saw EPB make his debut in person and he should've been playing much more since that day, rather than rotting on a bench.

He can make up for lost time, but had he gone to Juve two and a half years ago or whatever he'd be a lot better and closer to his true level. I hate don garber.

I feel like some of these MLS clubs purposely hold some of the young guys back and not play them in order to keep them longer. EPB should not have been a starter at SKC behind Opara and Besler, and that's understandable. However, he should have for sure been the first guy getting in that wasn't one of those two.

The lack of freedom players have to handle their contracts in MLS and decide where they land, and the fact that they sign a contract with the league instead of with the team, is a problem.

guilmend
Costa Rica
Post #5
Wednesday February 14, 2018 4:39pm

Joined Feb 2018
Total Posts: 4
The main issues its that must of MLS Teams continue to buy players from Abroad, i understand that that help to grow the game, but man so many foreigners on the pitch its just ridiculous, if you watch MLS game you will see that for the must no more than 2 American play on each team, and one of those its a Goalkeeper.
Guillermo Mendez
Lilshmike
Post #6
Wednesday February 14, 2018 6:39pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 586
Original post from guilmend

The main issues its that must of MLS Teams continue to buy players from Abroad, i understand that that help to grow the game, but man so many foreigners on the pitch its just ridiculous, if you watch MLS game you will see that for the must no more than 2 American play on each team, and one of those its a Goalkeeper.

Its a business. Gotta try to field the best players and/or put guys on the field who will put people in the stands. Maybe a topic for another thread, but I feel like thats an example of why we need to have better established pro leagues with geographic based pro-rel. Most important thing is playing and getting minutes, but it doesnt help when young guys (sub 23) who, for whatever reason, wont go to USL/NASL clubs since there is no clear path to moving up or out.

mandela
Post #7
Wednesday February 14, 2018 10:02pm

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 62
Original post from Lilshmike

I feel like some of these MLS clubs purposely hold some of the young guys back and not play them in order to keep them longer. EPB should not have been a starter at SKC behind Opara and Besler, and that's understandable. However, he should have for sure been the first guy getting in that wasn't one of those two.

The lack of freedom players have to handle their contracts in MLS and decide where they land, and the fact that they sign a contract with the league instead of with the team, is a problem.


very good point....i think this is something most people dont grasp fully.

if MLS teams can delay development but maintain rights to a player they can indirectly keep that player from leaving their team and get away with it.....most just turn it into a "good enough" problem when I think you are on to something here, for sure.....

it's better for an MLS club with a good prospect if that prospect becomes a good MLS player but not so good that a foreign club wants to buy that player....a sort of glass cieling incentive is there for MLS teams i.e. homegrown development....i think most assume MLS teams arent savvy enough to pull off something like this...but I have noticed the same thing.

Dave
Post #8
Thursday February 15, 2018 4:29am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 870
To me the issue is that MLS doesn't want to admit, or be seen as a feeder league. IMO they should target young talent (sub 18's) like Adams, EPB, Sargent, Wright, etc...
Sign them with the understanding that if/when a European club comes calling with an offer that they'll sell/transfer them.
MLS would get a couple years out of these guys, and then cash in. If they don't draw interest MLS keeps them until there either is interest, or until they prove not to be worthwhile anymore. If they go to Europe and fail than MLS would still be there to give them a place to land. I'd be much better for the league than trotting out "Old" guys & has-beens like Clark, Evans, Beasley, Jones, and others who aren't worth the roster spot at this point.

goods
Post #9
Thursday February 15, 2018 6:00pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 555
I think NYRB have started doing that. You saw with Miazga they were willing to sell him when the offers came. I have a feeling now that Adams is officially 18 yesterday he could be sold this summer or coming winter.

Lilshmike
Post #10
Thursday February 15, 2018 7:18pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 586
Original post from Dave

To me the issue is that MLS doesn't want to admit, or be seen as a feeder league. IMO they should target young talent (sub 18's) like Adams, EPB, Sargent, Wright, etc...
Sign them with the understanding that if/when a European club comes calling with an offer that they'll sell/transfer them.
MLS would get a couple years out of these guys, and then cash in. If they don't draw interest MLS keeps them until there either is interest, or until they prove not to be worthwhile anymore. If they go to Europe and fail than MLS would still be there to give them a place to land. I'd be much better for the league than trotting out "Old" guys & has-beens like Clark, Evans, Beasley, Jones, and others who aren't worth the roster spot at this point.

Being seen as a feeder league isn't the issue. The issue is that MLS is essentially a single entity, with each MLS team being a franchise.

When you join MLS, you don't sign a contract with the team, you sign one with the league. MLS has the final say over whether a player gets sold or not, and they have exercised their right to say no on more than one occasion (even with EPB).

As such, the owners of each franchise don't have an incentive to build a model off developing and selling players. That's because not too many players have been leaving MLS to go to Europe, when they do clubs aren't receiving a high payment for the player, MLS receives a cut of every transaction so they don't even get the full transfer amount, and at the end of the day MLS can reject the transfer if they so choose. Instead, they build their product on marketing/attendance. Some of that has to do with fan experience, some with quality of results, some with high profile players who out people in the seats.

MLS is more concerned with marketing higher profile, older, recognized names of foreigners and national team players than promoting a system that develops youth.

Lilshmike
Post #11
Thursday February 15, 2018 8:22pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 586
Further, the fact that there is no pro-rel protects the owners and their investment in joining the league. If the team does poorly, then there is no risk of dropping out of the league and losing out on TV/sponsorship/league payments. As a result, there is no need for them to try and build a team off youth performance and development, as there isn't a high upside.

A lot of teams in Europe, since they aren't shielded from pro-rel, have to make wise business decisions that translate to better performance on the field. Most look for building the best team they can at the lowest cost. Younger players will demand lower salaries, they develop them in house cheaper than purchasing them, and they can sell them for a profit that they keep in its entirety. MLS does not worry about this as their main priority is marketing and commercialization of the league as a whole (not individual teams).

Not only that, but when players in Europe are sold, the youth and local clubs who "developed" them get payments for their work since the purchasing club didn't have to pay for it. This flows all the way down to the bottom, and the better a player becomes, and the more places he moves, the more money the previous clubs he played at will receive. As a result, there is another incentive to build youth talent and sell them to bigger clubs because the selling club realizes that they will likely receive more payments down the road as that guy progresses in his career.

US Soccer and MLS teams don't make these payments to youth and local clubs for developing players like they do in Europe. So there is not a high priority on implementing a business model based on receiving future payment for the development of youth.

dolcem
Post #12
Saturday February 17, 2018 10:55pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,786
Great posts. But you're missing one important point: the salary cap. Even if an MLS team were to make a huge sale of a player, they wouldn't be able to invest that money back in the squad because of the salary cap.

And there's the youth thing too, which you mentioned. Basically there's no financial incentive in America to develop young talent. That's why we still aren't elite yet.
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Lilshmike
Post #13
Tuesday February 20, 2018 3:58pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 586
Original post from dolcem

Great posts. But you're missing one important point: the salary cap. Even if an MLS team were to make a huge sale of a player, they wouldn't be able to invest that money back in the squad because of the salary cap.

And there's the youth thing too, which you mentioned. Basically there's no financial incentive in America to develop young talent. That's why we still aren't elite yet.

The salary cap works both ways. The cap prevents investment into the player salaries, causing some players who are actually good enough to receive high salaries to not want to stick around as they can get paid more money overseas. So, if you're young and have the option, it would make sense to not play in MLS and go elsewhere as the level of play overseas is better and you'll more than likely get paid the same if not more than playing in MLS.

If you're an older player who is coming from overseas to MLS, you likely won't get paid as much as you would if you were to stay in Europe. Not only that, but you sign a contract with the league which restricts your mobility to negotiate the terms of your current and future contract, determine what team you can play for, and provides little updside earning potential for winning cup/tournament games.

I feel like a lot of the "older" players who come to MLS aren't doing it for a pay day. They are doing it because there is one intangible that MLS has that other leagues can't offer: living in the US and having the quality of life that comes with that. When players get into their 30s and have families, priorities shift. Can't blame them for that. But from a quality and growth standpoint, that doesn't exactly help the league and the development of our players.

Lilshmike
Post #14
Tuesday February 20, 2018 4:00pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 586
The salary cap does play an important role though, and I'm not exactly against it. It does help prevent ridiculous spending by clubs that don't have the resources to sustain high player salaries, adding a safety net that helps prevent clubs from folding by spending themselves broke.

dolcem
Post #15
Tuesday February 20, 2018 10:02pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,786
Original post from Lilshmike

I feel like a lot of the "older" players who come to MLS aren't doing it for a pay day. They are doing it because there is one intangible that MLS has that other leagues can't offer: living in the US and having the quality of life that comes with that. When players get into their 30s and have families, priorities shift. Can't blame them for that. But from a quality and growth standpoint, that doesn't exactly help the league and the development of our players.


I agreed pretty much everything you said except for here. I've noticed a lot of people make this claim...what exactly is better than the quality of life in the US than compared to European countries (or even some places in Asia)? The one thing I can think of is that the big name European players can be anonymous in the US, which is a huge plus. But you bring up families...if it's only going to be a couple of years, it'd be a pain to relocate your family to a different continent and then come back to your own. The kids would have to switch school systems, etc. It makes less sense if you have a family, IMO.
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