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tjknowsall
Post #586
Saturday June 22, 2019 2:59am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 436
not a problem if out of the 7 guys coming in 5 of them are starters... problem happens if only 2 of the 7 start then we might not make it again imo

bjelks
Post #587
Saturday June 22, 2019 5:37am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,667
Original post from Kamphgruppe

Very well said. I don't think we should jump to conclusions when someone we think should be on the team isn't. Also the racism thing is just plain silly. Our teams are very diverse especially our youth teams. I think our U-20 team is at least 60% Hispanic which seems very natural as the Hispanic population soon will be the #1 in our country. I am a minority myself BTW. I really don't see the white privilege that certain people on here always whine about.


If someone that is white is given an advantage unmerited over a minority, it is white privilege.
If you are a minority and you are given an advantage unmerited because of your relationships with powerful white ppl, you are still benefitting secondarily from white privilege.
There are very clear examples of this in the national team set up.

Greg Berhalter has a losing record in both his manager jobs, he did not have to compete for this job, his brother influenced his hiring. He is unqualified to have this job and got it because of white privilege.

Michael Bradley's position in the national team at this point is unmerited and unopposed. He has struggled at the intl level against quality opposition and even bad opposition the past 5 yrs and has coasted at the club level after being demoted.
US Soccer hasn't even considered to let anyone else compete for his position no matter how bad he has performed.

Danny Williams has been MOTM for US against Brazil and in EPL matches before. Apologists for Bradley's privilege say Danny is always hurt blah blah.
So this Premier League Quality/ intl player with great performances against elite teams can't make a 40 man roster over this Yueill or Baird guy with nowhere near the resume?
Jordan Morris in the same vein received a call up after playing once in 18 months, sucked and has been called every camp since.

Alfredo Morales started half the games in the Bundesliga, again hasn't made camp and Trapp who gets the lowest ratings from fans and media alike every game is an automatic unquestioned call up.

Sonora hasn't been invited to camp and is the first player off the bench for a top half Argentine side that played in Copa Libertadores knockout round. Roldan who benefits from his MLS affiliation with the powerful white men that run USSF is an automatic call up. Again, Roldan is terrible every game and Y'all tell me Sonora has to play more. I'm sorry Sonora plays in a better league than Roldan and can't get invited to camp. Same with Arriola and Gall comparison.

Ill add even when Arriola and Roldan are serviceable, it's against competition that Sonora and Gall would handle just as easily.

This is white privilege and it is killing the national program.
goalsense
Samtom23
Post #588
Saturday June 22, 2019 11:29am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 351
It's nepotism but not white privilege and highly offensive that you go there. It makes me think of the book, ‘The Boy Who Cried Wolf'. He hired is bro and I can agree there could've been better candidates. If Gregg and Jay Berhalter were black, it would be nepotism not black privilege.

You mention Roldan and Arriola, but their ancestry is Mexican and Guatemalan descent so is that Latin privilege? It's simple minded and racist to use race. But it seems you'd say Jozy Altidore is better than Messi or Ronaldo because Jozy is black. Or maybe you'd say because of white privilege Jozy never got the chance to fulfill his potential. That's ridiculous and that is how your argument sounds.

The USMNT has problems. But most stems from economics specifically player salaries compared to MLS and European leagues. They are better paid so attract quality players. And sure, USMNT most likely does promote MLS. But when Pulisic and Adams can stay home and make millions during their peak years, I'll say MLS has made it compared to the top leagues. But until MLS gets a big tv deal that probably won't happen.

But looking forward to the match tomorrow. But pissed that Bradley doesn't stress this game.

bjelks
Post #589
Saturday June 22, 2019 12:21pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,667
@samtom23 Lol do I have to give you a crash course in American history to explain to you why Berhalter's brother is in position to influence hiring of his brother?

First US soccer development and management is disproportionately inaccessible to working and lower middle class people.

Secondly if you follow power, oppression, and corruption in USA you'll understand why minorities have historically not been able to afford to position themselves for influence or development in this game in this country.

Thirdly, I stated the minorities, dual citizens, and even young white players (Sarg) that aren't everyday starters in top leagues but are fringe players in better leagues than mls, do not get the opportunities to prove themselves that or even earn a spot that the lesser talented white and minority puppets get in mls pushing the privileged agenda.

If you took the time to read and comprehend my pt about Arriola and Roldan, you would see that I mentioned that they benefit from being puppets or having relationships with the privileged influencers in the game, because they play in their league (mls) and push their agenda, being that the mls product can produce serviceable USA intls.

I said the same thing about Jozy, he's a puppet of the privileged system ran by good old boys to push their agenda and sell their product.
Jozy is a product of this soft ass privileged system and never made it in a big league because of his weak entitled mentality.
He's essentially what black ppl would call a house negro or Uncle Tom.

Sure, money would improve mls, but the bigger problem is competing with the tradition, prestige, and footballing cultures of big euro leagues. In other words, due to the lack of quality in the league, it is not respected by non-usa fans, media, and leagues.

I say all the time 2 biggest ways to improve mls are to 1) implement pro and rel and 2) participate in copa libertadores. First get respect, then get money, then get better players then more visibility and value.

And disclaimer, I do not think mls players are useless but I do think mls players over 23 are not the level of fringe players in division 2 England/ Germany or higher.
goalsense
Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #590
Saturday June 22, 2019 2:34pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 989
Original post from bjelks

If someone that is white is given an advantage unmerited over a minority, it is white privilege.
If you are a minority and you are given an advantage unmerited because of your relationships with powerful white ppl, you are still benefitting secondarily from white privilege.
There are very clear examples of this in the national team set up.

Greg Berhalter has a losing record in both his manager jobs, he did not have to compete for this job, his brother influenced his hiring. He is unqualified to have this job and got it because of white privilege.

Michael Bradley's position in the national team at this point is unmerited and unopposed. He has struggled at the intl level against quality opposition and even bad opposition the past 5 yrs and has coasted at the club level after being demoted.
US Soccer hasn't even considered to let anyone else compete for his position no matter how bad he has performed.

Danny Williams has been MOTM for US against Brazil and in EPL matches before. Apologists for Bradley's privilege say Danny is always hurt blah blah.
So this Premier League Quality/ intl player with great performances against elite teams can't make a 40 man roster over this Yueill or Baird guy with nowhere near the resume?
Jordan Morris in the same vein received a call up after playing once in 18 months, sucked and has been called every camp since.

Alfredo Morales started half the games in the Bundesliga, again hasn't made camp and Trapp who gets the lowest ratings from fans and media alike every game is an automatic unquestioned call up.

Sonora hasn't been invited to camp and is the first player off the bench for a top half Argentine side that played in Copa Libertadores knockout round. Roldan who benefits from his MLS affiliation with the powerful white men that run USSF is an automatic call up. Again, Roldan is terrible every game and Y'all tell me Sonora has to play more. I'm sorry Sonora plays in a better league than Roldan and can't get invited to camp. Same with Arriola and Gall comparison.

Ill add even when Arriola and Roldan are serviceable, it's against competition that Sonora and Gall would handle just as easily.

This is white privilege and it is killing the national program.


You have no idea what white privilege is. You may want to look up the definition of what that means. So your telling me other races don't hire their family and friends for jobs and positions. Everyone does that, not white privilege. Will Trap gets the callup because he has played for GB and he knows what to expect from him. It is my hope that GB will expand the player pool with future call ups, but it is not unusual at all in football for managers to call in players that they are familiar with. It happens all the time, that is not white privilege.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #591
Saturday June 22, 2019 2:37pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 989
Also I would love for you to call Jozy an uncle tom to his face. I really would.

tjknowsall
Post #592
Saturday June 22, 2019 6:10pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 436
biggest privilege in the united states isn't white or anything its being raised by two parents. just to set that straight. Right now if a black and white baby are born in the same town with the same economic set up and the black baby has two parents and the white baby is being raised by a single mother the black baby is more privileged... just wanted to clarify that...

now i do understand a little what bjelks is saying, but like most people now a days he tries to paint it as black and white. MLS and US Soccer are connected, so of course the MLS will try in whatever why possible to get as many mls players on the team as possible.

If you're a player and you have strong connections to the US national team coach you should try to use them as much as possible. It is like any job. If you have a connection with your potential employer that might give you a leg up over someone more qualified, then you use this to your advantage. This isn't a soccer or US soccer only thing, its in every job around the world.

However, I do agree with Bjelks that us soccer has done an awful job of getting young inner city and lower income players into our soccer setup, and as we know this is where you tend to find the best athletes. Our acadamies will help this in the long run, but it takes time. Our setup was so anti-international success, because of our colleges that it will take time. If you're a new coach do you want to bring the 35th best player that knows the system that you run or the 28th best player that has never played for you? I take the 35th, because I need results, and I know exactly how to coach this player. Now 2 years from now if that 28th best player is better than the 35th best player and you trust him then you take the 28th best player...

I do agree with you on Williams and Morales. I think Morales was never given a fair shot, always played out of positoin. Williams just always injured at the wrong times, but really is our best veteran cm right now imo. But you can't discount what bradley has done for us, and his leadership. I like Bradley he cahllenged himself over seas, and came back to the mls when the money was there. There is a reason he kept his place in the team after bob left and klinssman took over and then arena and then now. Thats 4 coaches that value him as a leader and cm, and i want him on the roster in 2022. As an emergency starter, or d middy for o middy sub late in a game.

tjknowsall
Post #593
Saturday June 22, 2019 6:10pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 436
My boy Conor Obrien also never got a shot despite playing in denmark during his prime, and champions league football, and hes as white as it gets lol

db707
Post #594
Saturday June 22, 2019 9:33pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,068
@bjelks, you lost me at white privilege. Actually you lost me at your username because I knew I would get undiluted crazy from you. Legit question, why do you never whine about Ventura Alvarado? He actually had a good season with Necaxa yet he can't get a recall. I know, you must be racist against Mexican-Americans! See how silly that is?

You also completely ignore context when comparing Williams to Morris. Williams is a 30 year old d-mid who is without a club at the end of the month. Even if we wanted to call him in after a season where he played about 1 game of total league time (and missed significant time the season before that), we shouldn't so he can focus on finding a new club/continuing his career at the highest level possible. We want him to be an option in World Cup qualifying, and that's not going to happen if he gets hurt again before he can get settled at a new club. Morris has a stable club situation and plays out on the wing, where he can more easily be a sub if need be. While I wouldn't have called either one, the cases aren't the same.

Samtom23
Post #595
Saturday June 22, 2019 11:27pm

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 351
I think it is safe to say, a group of former players got together and hired one of their own. Led by Ernie Stewart that happens to be black. But I am sure you'll say he is benefitting from secondary white privilege. So it doesn't matter to about the history because you'll create your own version because you're a rascist. and I don't know if you are African American but I assume you are and you probably believe African Americans can't be racist but you're wrong.

First, middle and lower class are inclusive of all races.

Second, times have changed. Minorities have just as much opportunities as whites nowadays. But it is about personal responsibility, what you do with your life. But it is harder for whites and blacks that are economically disadvantaged.

3rd This is when you really sound racist. If it comes from MLS it is white privilege. Then, you must hate the USMNT because GB got his start there. And anything he chooses is primary or secondary white privilege. Now that Wooten is in MLS, selecting him would be secondary white privilege. And your comments about Jozy are so ignorant and offensive, it's ridiculous. Have you ever lived abroad? He came home have you lived outside of the USA? It's not so easy to not see friends and family but it was his decision to home, earn a good living for him and his family. I live outside USA and by comparison racism is part of society here. But it makes me appreciate how far USA has come. But people like yourself make racism worse.

Bradley and Williams play two different positions. Williams only not here because he is injured.

The rest of your post seems fine and reasonable on how to improve MLS but for the love of god, leave race out of this forum.

navi8132
New York
Post #596
Saturday June 22, 2019 11:55pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 3,122
Lineup is out, its the same exact lineup from last game (I think). What's Jozy got to do to start of Gyasi? Isn't McKennie an injury risk right now? Can't we see a diff leftback for once....

tjknowsall
Post #597
Sunday June 23, 2019 12:06am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 436
GYASI!!! the new bornstein but at the worst position to have a bornstein!!!

tjknowsall
Post #598
Sunday June 23, 2019 12:18am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 436
will be a good test to see if these guys can implant the system... im a little optimistic today. IF GB is good tactically as people say he is then this could be a really good night. My prediction is 3-1.
Bradley, Pulisic, boyd goals and we give up a softy cuz we can't pass out of the back.

tjknowsall
Post #599
Sunday June 23, 2019 12:33am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 436
also transfer of tyler boyd to beskitas being rumoured but mls teams interested as well and might outbid them

bjelks
Post #600
Sunday June 23, 2019 12:48am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,667
Original post from db707

@bjelks, you lost me at white privilege. Actually you lost me at your username because I knew I would get undiluted crazy from you. Legit question, why do you never whine about Ventura Alvarado? He actually had a good season with Necaxa yet he can't get a recall. I know, you must be racist against Mexican-Americans! See how silly that is?

You also completely ignore context when comparing Williams to Morris. Williams is a 30 year old d-mid who is without a club at the end of the month. Even if we wanted to call him in after a season where he played about 1 game of total league time (and missed significant time the season before that), we shouldn't so he can focus on finding a new club/continuing his career at the highest level possible. We want him to be an option in World Cup qualifying, and that's not going to happen if he gets hurt again before he can get settled at a new club. Morris has a stable club situation and plays out on the wing, where he can more easily be a sub if need be. While I wouldn't have called either one, the cases aren't the same.


Again Morris missed 18 months and was called in after 1 game.
If Greg wants to call in his most competitive team and win games, why would he not call somebody to even a 40 man provisional roster who has impressed against Brazil and multiple seasons in EPL.
If we want to help D Will find a new club, wouldn't GC be a good platform to show his stuff?
Just seems there are double standards for players with his profile.

I've seen Alvarado and he doesn't have the size, strength, speed, aerial ability, tacking accuracy, passing range as EPB or CCV.
I also don't rate Mexico as the same quality as Championship or Eredivisie. Even so I rate Alvarado over Zimmerman and Omar, possibly Long.
goalsense
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