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stoked3
Ft Lauderdale, FL
Post #376
Wednesday June 12, 2019 5:59am

Joined Oct 2014
Total Posts: 291
Original post from Lilshmike

Candidly, everyone is freaking out and its unnecessary. Yeah, Venezuela isn't exactly considered "good", but I don't think its time to hit the panic button yet.

These friendlies were opportunities for guys to show what they could provide and make a case for their inclusion in the team moving forward. That is the time to do it - during friendlies, not during competitive games.

People can complain about player selections all they want, but the fact of the matter still remains - we lack good enough players. We just simply aren't at the level that people want us to be at, and no matter how many different players are selected, that likely won't change in the near term. This is the same reason that we need to keep players like Bradley and Jozy around, because although they may not be game changers, they don't completely suck and can do the job. Not only that, but none of the other guys in our pool really have any experience playing in big international games. We need guys like that who have been there and who know (leader/veteran type guys) in the locker room and on the field.

If we lay an egg at the Gold Cup, then sure, thats the time to start getting irritated. But until then, just sit back, see what happens, and chill out.


Im not freaking out about the loss but rather the player selection and then the loss. Dave Saracan brought on young new guys to the team and gave them exp, we learned some of them can hang at this level and some could not-but the point was we added players and thus that helps with depth.

You said what I have been saying for a while. We should try new guys out in friendlies and frankly we should have brought newer faces in to the Gold cup, who cares really how we do in this tournament. Our goal is to redeem ourselves in 22.

So when you call the same guys, who have shown what they can and can not do and then lose like we did, yes we can be pissed.

Why not try the new guys, whom we have not seen, and see what they bring and if we lose a game or two who cares. But to not have guys like-wooten, Nova (who I don't rate) green, or frankly some u20 guys, Sargent etc in camp our debate on here is pointless-the simple truth is we do not know how these new guys will do at this level.

BUT what we could learn is will they be better come qualifying time than the current players.

and if that is case then those players need to be given fair shot. Why does it take foreign players longer to get call ups than some of these mls guys and why is Omar Gondolas given more opps why not Alvarez or EPB etc?

Regarding leadership-we cares if Jozy and Bradley played in big games, Jozy was walking in the biggest game and biggest failure of our program, plus he is injury prone- Bradley was great for the US team in his day, and frankly I wouldn't mind if he was brought in I prefer him over Trapp. But he is limited now, there are other players that can play his position. We know what he brings, so lets see youth and if they fail come qualifying we know what we have in bradley and then bring him in. but let the youth and or different guys get the same chance some of the favorites have been given

I really feel like we do have the talent to field a really strong starting 11. Its just will the coach call in the appropriate players.

The way we evaluate players really needs an upgrade.
Stoked
blaise213
Post #377
Wednesday June 12, 2019 7:06am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,927
Original post from bjelks

At 25, Jozy hit rock bottom and became a permanent MLS player at what you would think is the prime of his career. Jozy is back where he started, playing below Championship level and will never play meaningful club ball again.


I lost interest in MLS after the CCL ass whooping and started to realize that MLS defenders are bad. I haven't watched an MLS game after I saw Wondo break the goal record, his first 2 goals were like watching an amateur league. It's insane that Berhalter calls in so many players from MLS. All MLS has done is make other concacaf teams better.

venicebeachbull
Post #378
Wednesday June 12, 2019 7:52am

Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts: 131
No Adams? Oof. A shit tourney here and me thinks Pulisic goes into Vela mode for the Nats. Chelsea is probably holding their breathe too.

Samtom23
Post #379
Wednesday June 12, 2019 7:54am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 46
This is a pretty good article about GB

https://mlsmultiplex.com/2019/06/10/usmnt-3-r...

Just for fun-Here is the 40 man roster-I would've liked to seen at the Gold Cup.

Goalkeepers-Zack Steffen, Ethan Horvath, Sean Johnson and Bill Hamid.

Defenders-Matt Miagza, Brendan Hines-Ike, CCV, Walker Zimmerman, Auston Trusty, Nick Lima, Marlon Fossey, Reggie Cannon, Aaron Long, McKennie (as the hybrid), Garza, Miles Robinson, Sam Rogers, Justen Glad, Antonee Robinson,

Midfielders-CP, Adams, Bradley, Holmes, Hyndman, Zelalem, Aaronson, Mihilavoc, Yuiell, Nebiyou Perry, Kelyn Acosta (sucks but little choice), Keaton Parks, Luca De La Torre

Forwards: Altidore, Nokavich, Morris, Johansson, Amon, Boyd, Lewis, Wright,Eboisse

This is Brendan Hines-Ike. I think he is worth a call-up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh3ZsWY3Mh8

After thinking about it, I think if Sargent and Weah should've went to the U-20 World Cup that would've been fine. Once Sargent wasn't allowed to go, he should've been a lock for the USMNT. Instead with lack of thinking, GB screwed the U20s and the USMNT but only a little. This tournament is not that important unless you royally screw up, which might be the case with GB.

I really hope Zelalem finds his old form and confidence. If he does, he should be lock but it may take another year to regain that swagger. Could be wishful thinking but would love for him to take Trapp's spot. Here is a reminder of what he used to be able to do. Hopefully, he can do it again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2xat-pbsnE

Now there are A LOT of reaches but I don't think there is a fair evaluation until viewed in person.

db707
Post #380
Wednesday June 12, 2019 12:25pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 959
Original post from venicebeachbull

No Adams? Oof. A shit tourney here and me thinks Pulisic goes into Vela mode for the Nats. Chelsea is probably holding their breathe too.


All 3 of our top young players are on the cusp of being labeled injury-prone if they're not there already. That's definitely, at least for me, a cause of the elevated pessimism.

hamsamwich
Post #381
Wednesday June 12, 2019 1:38pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,143
Lol @lilshmike- "until then sit back and chill out". Don't worry that's already happening. Nobody cares. The rest of us wanted to turn the page, you enjoy the stagnation. The fans are the only ones who care. Not the suits upstairs. Not the people with guaranteed money. Not the marketers and organizers. The players don't seem to care. The coach is pretending to care. What limit of apathy do you find unacceptable @lilshmike??? You drink straight from the kool aid jug not bothering to grab a cup just gulp straight from the tap.

@db707- I can see where you would say that and injuries are a part of the game. Ask Neymar (or Jozy). However I can see a scenario where since this is already a junk summer, plans are being made to ensure these players health for the upcoming season and their long term development, rather than the Mickey Mouse Cup.

whyneverme
Post #382
Wednesday June 12, 2019 11:39pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 34
Not sure why everyone thinks this tournament means nothing. This tournament represents the only tournament the USMNT can win. It is also important to build a winning confidence. Winning begets winning and we better start winning the events we can actually win! We don't have the pedigree to treat any competition as inferior to the USMNT!

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #383
Thursday June 13, 2019 12:08am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,357
Original post from Samtom23

This is a pretty good article about GB

https://mlsmultiplex.com/2019/06/10/usmnt-3-r...

Just for fun-Here is the 40 man roster-I would've liked to seen at the Gold Cup.

Goalkeepers-Zack Steffen, Ethan Horvath, Sean Johnson and Bill Hamid.

Defenders-Matt Miagza, Brendan Hines-Ike, CCV, Walker Zimmerman, Auston Trusty, Nick Lima, Marlon Fossey, Reggie Cannon, Aaron Long, McKennie (as the hybrid), Garza, Miles Robinson, Sam Rogers, Justen Glad, Antonee Robinson,

Midfielders-CP, Adams, Bradley, Holmes, Hyndman, Zelalem, Aaronson, Mihilavoc, Yuiell, Nebiyou Perry, Kelyn Acosta (sucks but little choice), Keaton Parks, Luca De La Torre

Forwards: Altidore, Nokavich, Morris, Johansson, Amon, Boyd, Lewis, Wright,Eboisse

This is Brendan Hines-Ike. I think he is worth a call-up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh3ZsWY3Mh8

After thinking about it, I think if Sargent and Weah should've went to the U-20 World Cup that would've been fine. Once Sargent wasn't allowed to go, he should've been a lock for the USMNT. Instead with lack of thinking, GB screwed the U20s and the USMNT but only a little. This tournament is not that important unless you royally screw up, which might be the case with GB.

I really hope Zelalem finds his old form and confidence. If he does, he should be lock but it may take another year to regain that swagger. Could be wishful thinking but would love for him to take Trapp's spot. Here is a reminder of what he used to be able to do. Hopefully, he can do it again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2xat-pbsnE

Now there are A LOT of reaches but I don't think there is a fair evaluation until viewed in person.


I think everyone should be eagerly eagerly watch Marlon fossey this year. He has tremendous upside and ability as a RB. Won't be surprised to see Fossey and Dest as our RB's at the 2022 WC.

Lilshmike
Post #384
Thursday June 13, 2019 3:03pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,178
Original post from hamsamwich

Lol @lilshmike- "until then sit back and chill out". Don't worry that's already happening. Nobody cares. The rest of us wanted to turn the page, you enjoy the stagnation. The fans are the only ones who care. Not the suits upstairs. Not the people with guaranteed money. Not the marketers and organizers. The players don't seem to care. The coach is pretending to care. What limit of apathy do you find unacceptable @lilshmike??? You drink straight from the kool aid jug not bothering to grab a cup just gulp straight from the tap.

@db707- I can see where you would say that and injuries are a part of the game. Ask Neymar (or Jozy). However I can see a scenario where since this is already a junk summer, plans are being made to ensure these players health for the upcoming season and their long term development, rather than the Mickey Mouse Cup.
It has nothing to do with apathy. Again, there is a reason that we are sitting behind a screen typing on a keyboard and other are out there making decisions.

You, and others, are freaking out because we lost to Venezuela and Jamaica in friendly warm ups - in games where the objective was to give guys opportunities to play themselves in or out of the team. In an environment like that, sure, you will have hiccups.

None of us are in training everyday. None of us see how these guys do against their peers in scrimmages and practice. Of all the names excluded, who really deserved to be included?

Fabian Johnson - He pretty much said hes done with the national team. The only way he comes back is if he is still playing at a high level come next world cup and we need him.
Danny Williams - This must be a joke. He has been hurt all year, has played no minutes, and isn't fit. Oh, right, and he also just got dropped by his club. Hard pass.
Romain Gall - We've been through this argument before... he just isn't there yet.
Andrew Wooten - For anyone who claims we should look at Wooten and exclude Jozy... you're a hypocrite. Sure, he did well this season, but he is on the outside looking in and his exclusion is not controversial in the least.
Alfredo Morales - Sure, I can see it being a snub to not select him... but its not like he is some prodigy or game changer, and he has always been sub par for the USMNT. Also, who knows if he is actually open to the idea of playing for us.
Ventura Alavarado- He should have been called in, no excuses there.
Ethan Horvath - Absolutely should have been called in.

Outside of that, who genuinely should be included? People can nit pick random U-23 and U-20 guys, but those guys are playing with their age groups. And don't start the whole Sargent thing...

If we want to see how we will really play... we need to wait until we see us play in a legitimate competitive setting. Friendlies, where you are rotating players and putting them into a new system to give them a chance of playing their way in or out of the team, is not a good indicator of where our team is at.

That indicator comes in competitive matches when the games mean something. Hence, why people need to wait until the Gold Cup to complain. If we lay an egg and suck up the place, go for it. I'll do it too. If we do well, guaranteed people will curb their emotions.

Lilshmike
Post #385
Thursday June 13, 2019 3:05pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,178
Original post from whyneverme

Not sure why everyone thinks this tournament means nothing. This tournament represents the only tournament the USMNT can win. It is also important to build a winning confidence. Winning begets winning and we better start winning the events we can actually win! We don't have the pedigree to treat any competition as inferior to the USMNT!
Bingo.

How well we do in friendlies means nothing. We can smoke teams in friendlies and suck in tournaments and vice versa. The measure of how well we will do is how we do in competitive games... not friendlies where we are rotating players to give them opportunities to play their way in or out of the team.

hamsamwich
Post #386
Thursday June 13, 2019 3:25pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,143
I never listed those players and pretty much none of my opinion has anything to do with the player selection. I haven't once made a thing of Zardes over Sargent since the roster was selected. In fact I said a month or so ago not to be surprised with an MLS scrub heavy roster.
I complained long before these friendlies bud, they are expected results. It's the Gold Cup where you all seem to think we are just going to wave a magic wand. Panama and T&T deserve to be respected.

This is the same aloof nonsense that saw players carried over a water moat in Couva.

Again, it's 100% apathy. I guess you haven't been to any recent games.

I do not claim to be a better coach than Berhalter, just that he is the wrong guy and he was put there by his good old boys.

I'm at the keyboard because I'm a fan, giving a fans opinion. Just like you. But why are so invested in Berhalter and the zero progress since Sarachan?

@lilshmike- do you have a bag over your head, wool over your eyes or your head in the sand?? I can't believe some of the things you say.

bjelks
Post #387
Thursday June 13, 2019 4:02pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,229
Bahahahaha.

The reason others are making decisions is because of good ole boy nepotism and general incompetence of the most underachieving men's program of a 1st world country in international football history.

No one is freaking out because of losing to Venezuela and Jamaica, we are freaking out because Greg continues to pick guys that have proven to be not up to international quality. And he's not even interested in rotating other options.

How we can see other options in training if they're never called into camp.

Until Greg addresses Fab declining an invite, I'm not believing he's not interested.

DWill was just as fit as Jordan Morris before he was called in in March. Not a joke at all, just MLS good ole boy bias.

If Arriola can be completely useless in over a yr of call ups, Gall is definitely ready for a shot right now.

We know that Jozy is a failure, is lazy, is inefficient with chances and not good 1v1.
Why not give someone new who is playing well a shot in arguably a better league in Wooten?
Cuz its not the good ole boy way.

Again Morales may not be a prodigy, but with Trapp, Bradley, and Roldan setting the bar so low, anybody with any athleticism and bite is a major step up and the goal is to be as competitive as possible.

I'd add EPB would be a major step up in athleticism and skill from Long, Zman and Ream.

And Sonora would be a much better depth piece than Roldan and Lewis.
goalsense
db707
Post #388
Thursday June 13, 2019 4:02pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 959
lilshmike, Horvath is hurt, finger injury.

As previously noted my objection to the Jamaica game is, if they wanted to use it to figure out who should be in the 11 from the 23, absolutely fine, that is the purpose of a pre-tournament friendly. At this stage though, using that game in front of a paying crowd to whittle down the 40 to 23 was bad. If Berhalter can't figure out a 23 from the previous friendlies, from scouting, reviewing tape and from who performs well in practice and scrimmages (the Annapolis camp), that doesn't speak well to his talent evaluation/decision-making abilities. That is a legitimate cause for concern to me, as it speaks to Berhalter's lack of experience/meaningful qualifications for the job. The results are whatever, but they speak to deeper problems with the leadership of the team.

Lilshmike
Post #389
Thursday June 13, 2019 4:13pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,178
Original post from hamsamwich

I never listed those players and pretty much none of my opinion has anything to do with the player selection. I haven't once made a thing of Zardes over Sargent since the roster was selected. In fact I said a month or so ago not to be surprised with an MLS scrub heavy roster.
I complained long before these friendlies bud, they are expected results. It's the Gold Cup where you all seem to think we are just going to wave a magic wand. Panama and T&T deserve to be respected.

This is the same aloof nonsense that saw players carried over a water moat in Couva.

Again, it's 100% apathy. I guess you haven't been to any recent games.

I do not claim to be a better coach than Berhalter, just that he is the wrong guy and he was put there by his good old boys.

I'm at the keyboard because I'm a fan, giving a fans opinion. Just like you. But why are so invested in Berhalter and the zero progress since Sarachan?

@lilshmike- do you have a bag over your head, wool over your eyes or your head in the sand?? I can't believe some of the things you say.
I listed those guys not at you in particular, but in a general sense because those names seemed to pop up a bunch throughout this thread.

Again... these were friendlies. We have been rotating players and giving them chances to prove themselves. If you want to make an omelette, you have to crack a few eggs. Thats just the nature of the beast. And again, we just simply aren't at the level that a lot of people want us to be at, and people need to take a hard look in the mirror and accept the reality of the situation.

I don't think that we are going to wave some magic wand and do well. I'm not super invested in Berhalter. I clearly stated that we should wait until competitive games (the Gold Cup) to pass judgement, because we have no idea how things will pan out when we are in a must win setting. If we do well, great. If we don't, then I'll start getting pissed.

We have no idea what the starting line-up is going to look like, we have no idea what the tactics are going to be, we legitimately have no idea. He may play this system hes been trying to install, and we do great. He may do it and we do poor. He may change it up after a game or two if we aren't performing the way we need to.

Wool over my eyes and head in the sand? Seriously, what are you talking about? Candidly, what I have been saying is one of the most rational things on the boards. Its clear that not many people on here neither played at a high level nor coached, otherwise there would be a lot less hysteria. The situation is more complex than just, "we need to do better" or "we lost and have no direction" or "Greg didn't call in the best players" or "some player was walking around" or "if only so and so had been called in", etc.

To reiterate, we don't need to panic just yet. We have not played any competitive games yet. The Gold Cup will be the first ACTUAL test of the team (and remember... we don't even have all of our best players available with Yedlin, Adams, and Brooks out - meaning we have a weakened defense).

Anything less than 3rd at the Gold cup is a disaster. And candidly, finishing 2nd is a success. Mexico is better than us. No question. If they don't win, then thats shocking...

Pstkeeper
Post #390
Thursday June 13, 2019 4:40pm

Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts: 12
Horvath picked up a finger injury in Brugge's last game and my guess is the club was not real excited about him coming in anyways. It's best for him to be 100% ready for the start of their season and be there for all of their pre season. Brugge has a new coach and staff coming in and missing a bunch of Brugge's pre season to sit behind Steffen, since he is going to get all these games, does not make much sense for Horvath right now.

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