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bjelks
Post #346
Tuesday June 11, 2019 1:20pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,126
I'll believe Fabian is done when Greg says he doesn't want to play for us.
Other than that, I don't trust anything that comes out of Greg's mouth.
Sonora and Gall both play on better clubs and are better technically than all of the wings on the roster.
If Willians can play 20-30mins, he's still much better than Trapp, Roldan and Bradley. This could also be an audition for his next club.
I don't care if Wooten was 39, he's currently younger than Jozy and playing at a higher level.
Alfredo Morales had an and down year but still started more than half of the Bundesliga games at holding mid and if he can do that, he can out play Bradley and Trapp.
EPB is a much better athlete and is much more talented technically than all of the center backs not named Miazga.

There are 16/23 players on the roster that have no business at the international level because Greg is trying to paint a narrative that we dont have the talent. I'm not buying that especially when we have nearly a lineup worth of options that he won't try out. Literally, anybody is better than most of the options we have but Greg is too stubborn and arrogant to expand is pool. And eventually he'll pay for his bigotry.
goalsense
hamsamwich
Post #347
Tuesday June 11, 2019 1:37pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,023
Regarding Altidore- he's in a different boat to Zardes. Whereas no decent club would pay a fee for Zardes, they have for Jozy and I believe they would again. His problem has always been his health not his talent or ability. I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion but I've seen them all play and I also think Jozy is better than Wooten, Nova and Zardes.

bjelks
Post #348
Tuesday June 11, 2019 2:09pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,126
Altidore fandom aside, let's look at the facts.
No decent club has paid a fee for Jozy in 6 yrs.
In 4 yrs playing between Spain and English top flights, Jozy has scored 3 goals.
In 80 top flight games, Jozy has scored 3 goals.
And you're telling me a good club in Europe would pay a fee for him and he's better than Nova and Wooden lol, I'll pass.
Jozy has been a failure, a disappointment and the one of the most overhyped us players ever.
This Blind loyalty to him as well as Bradley is one of the reasons our program can't grow.
goalsense
db707
Post #349
Tuesday June 11, 2019 2:26pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 874
bjelks, your nonsense is astounding. Berhalter's a bigot because he won't choose Sonora over Roldan or Arriola? Get out of here. Berhalter and the federation are problems but you're constantly torpedoing your own arguments with patently ridiculous statements.

Lilshmike
Post #350
Tuesday June 11, 2019 2:36pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,085
Original post from db707

bjelks, your nonsense is astounding. Berhalter's a bigot because he won't choose Sonora over Roldan or Arriola? Get out of here. Berhalter and the federation are problems but you're constantly torpedoing your own arguments with patently ridiculous statements.
Seriously...

Hey bjelks - remember your arguments not long ago about Terrence Boyd too? How he was better than Jozy? Don't walk down this road again..

Lilshmike
Post #351
Tuesday June 11, 2019 2:50pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,085
Candidly, everyone is freaking out and its unnecessary. Yeah, Venezuela isn't exactly considered "good", but I don't think its time to hit the panic button yet.

These friendlies were opportunities for guys to show what they could provide and make a case for their inclusion in the team moving forward. That is the time to do it - during friendlies, not during competitive games.

People can complain about player selections all they want, but the fact of the matter still remains - we lack good enough players. We just simply aren't at the level that people want us to be at, and no matter how many different players are selected, that likely won't change in the near term. This is the same reason that we need to keep players like Bradley and Jozy around, because although they may not be game changers, they don't completely suck and can do the job. Not only that, but none of the other guys in our pool really have any experience playing in big international games. We need guys like that who have been there and who know (leader/veteran type guys) in the locker room and on the field.

If we lay an egg at the Gold Cup, then sure, thats the time to start getting irritated. But until then, just sit back, see what happens, and chill out.

bjelks
Post #352
Tuesday June 11, 2019 2:52pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,126
Original post from db707

bjelks, your nonsense is astounding. Berhalter's a bigot because he won't choose Sonora over Roldan or Arriola? Get out of here. Berhalter and the federation are problems but you're constantly torpedoing your own arguments with patently ridiculous statements.


Yes Greg is a bigot because he unapologetically snubs better dual nationals and euro based players to promote the good ole boy system.
My statements may make you uncomfortable, but That's only because truth hurts.
goalsense
bjelks
Post #353
Tuesday June 11, 2019 3:05pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,126
I'm sorry, MLS goals aside I'm still not convinced Jozy is better than Boyd.
At the intl level, they're both mediocre to say the least.
goalsense
Know Nothing
Post #354
Tuesday June 11, 2019 3:06pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,574
Original post from Lilshmike

People can complain about player selections all they want, but the fact of the matter still remains - we lack good enough players.


...and if you put them in unfamiliar positions to which their skill sets are not suited, they become worse players.

db707
Post #355
Tuesday June 11, 2019 3:11pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 874
Original post from Lilshmike

Candidly, everyone is freaking out and its unnecessary. Yeah, Venezuela isn't exactly considered "good", but I don't think its time to hit the panic button yet.

These friendlies were opportunities for guys to show what they could provide and make a case for their inclusion in the team moving forward. That is the time to do it - during friendlies, not during competitive games.

People can complain about player selections all they want, but the fact of the matter still remains - we lack good enough players. We just simply aren't at the level that people want us to be at, and no matter how many different players are selected, that likely won't change in the near term. This is the same reason that we need to keep players like Bradley and Jozy around, because although they may not be game changers, they don't completely suck and can do the job. Not only that, but none of the other guys in our pool really have any experience playing in big international games. We need guys like that who have been there and who know (leader/veteran type guys) in the locker room and on the field.

If we lay an egg at the Gold Cup, then sure, thats the time to start getting irritated. But until then, just sit back, see what happens, and chill out.


Fair, lilshmike, this is a reasonable take, although I will say if we were going to use the first match to cut down the roster to 23, we probably should have just done a closed door scrimmage, then had one or two friendlies with the Gold Cup 23. My opinion is admittedly influenced by the fact I paid to see that dreck against Jamaica.

cudevil
Post #356
Tuesday June 11, 2019 3:21pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 861
Original post from bjelks

Altidore fandom aside, let's look at the facts.
No decent club has paid a fee for Jozy in 6 yrs.
In 4 yrs playing between Spain and English top flights, Jozy has scored 3 goals.
In 80 top flight games, Jozy has scored 3 goals.
And you're telling me a good club in Europe would pay a fee for him and he's better than Nova and Wooden lol, I'll pass.
Jozy has been a failure, a disappointment and the one of the most overhyped us players ever.
This Blind loyalty to him as well as Bradley is one of the reasons our program can't grow.


Now do Jozy for the Nats. That Venezuela game was 15 gallons of shit stuffed in a 10 gallon hat, but one thing that was painfully obvious was that Jozy is waaaay better than any other striker in the pool right now. (I'd still play Sargent because he has mor3 long term potential).

Nova isn't as good as Jozy when comparing them at the same age in the same league. Nova's current holdup play and distribution pale in comparison to Jozy's.

Wooten is actually a couple of months older than Jozy, and has never played above the 2.Bundes level. He's on good form, and should be in the camp over Zardes (same for Nova), but the chances that he's a better all around player are low.

Playing Bradley (or Trapp) when you have Adams and McKennie is dumb and loyalty certainly plays a role there.

Playing Altidore when there aren't better options is fine. And if you were playing a meaningful game for the USMNT tomorrow, picking someone other than Jozy would be a tough argument to make.

bjelks
Post #357
Tuesday June 11, 2019 4:40pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,126
Jozy's first touch, dribbling, work rate, first and second time finishing aren't as good as Nova's in my opinion.
I would also argue Jozy is far from the player he was at 22!as evidenced by playing in a lesser league and club.
goalsense
cudevil
Post #358
Tuesday June 11, 2019 6:27pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 861
Original post from bjelks

Jozy's first touch, dribbling, work rate, first and second time finishing aren't as good as Nova's in my opinion.
I would also argue Jozy is far from the player he was at 22!as evidenced by playing in a lesser league and club.


If all that were true, Nova wouldn't be playing at a bottom table Eresivisie club and unable to break in with Reading.

Considering he's not as good as Altidore was at the same age, it's less likely that he develops into a better player than Jozy. This is particularly true considering that we're talking about someone that is 22. Yes, Nova can still get better, but the bulk of his development has been baked in.

I'm fine with calling up Nova and Wooten, and it's silly they weren't at least included in the preliminary roster, but Altidore belongs in the 23, and, to my eye, remains the no. 1 striker for meaningful games.

bjelks
Post #359
Tuesday June 11, 2019 7:28pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,126
Original post from cudevil

If all that were true, Nova wouldn't be playing at a bottom table Eresivisie club and unable to break in with Reading.

Considering he's not as good as Altidore was at the same age, it's less likely that he develops into a better player than Jozy. This is particularly true considering that we're talking about someone that is 22. Yes, Nova can still get better, but the bulk of his development has been baked in.

I'm fine with calling up Nova and Wooten, and it's silly they weren't at least included in the preliminary roster, but Altidore belongs in the 23, and, to my eye, remains the no. 1 striker for meaningful games.


You make a good pt about player development except for Jozy being someone that peaked at 23 and Nova being someone that is still developing at 22 and has rose his level the last 2 yrs.
With his climb in leagues and consistent production, he still has an opportunity to make it to a top tier league and make an impact within this cycle.
goalsense
cudevil
Post #360
Tuesday June 11, 2019 8:36pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 861
Original post from bjelks

You make a good pt about player development except for Jozy being someone that peaked at 23 and Nova being someone that is still developing at 22 and has rose his level the last 2 yrs.
With his climb in leagues and consistent production, he still has an opportunity to make it to a top tier league and make an impact within this cycle.


Nova isn't currently move up the ladder at the club level, though. Unless I missed something, I believe Reading recalled him from his loan to Fortuna. It obviously means they still value him, but it's not clear that he will get regular run (and Reading were bad last year).

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