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dfw_fan
DfW
Post #16
Thursday October 12, 2017 2:56pm

Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts: 911
Original post from chris_thebassplayer

We can always use more scouting, but Imo, that area has noticeably improved. We have a lot more quality players coming through and it will get even better. Unfortunately, we had a big gap in the pipeline that just killed us...great piece from BShred.

Imo, the biggest problem is a lack of true quality coaches through out the entire developmental ranks...from the kids up to and including the nats. Some of the pundits were trumpeting Ramos as a solution for the current meltdown...made me want to barf. It is classic USSF mentality...completely inbred with no sense of enlightened thought. Same treadmill of low level names bouncing around from team to team in the youth ranks.

USSF rarely will give up control to an outsider. They did with JK, but he didn't have the tactical goods, and was, Imo, a poor man manager. He had the grand vision but not the details to get there. USSF thinks they can do it themselves...their way, but they need to go outside again....and this time actually get a quality tactician as a coach.

Our program should be built on the U17s and the players that come after them...those players will have the skill level to succeed...We just need to prioritize getting them some proper coaches.


I would also have scouting and recruiting encouraging and poaching dual national kids in Germany, there is no reason not to catch them early, we would have the best farm system there is.

Know Nothing
Post #17
Thursday October 12, 2017 3:49pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,186
I may get some stick for this, but we should not be heavily recruiting dual nationals. The shirt should be worn by players that want to wear it for pride purposes, not because we gave them the best offer.

I am not saying we don't talk to dual nationals, I am saying if we talk to them we give each one the same pitch...this is who we are, these are our plans and this is what we expect from you.

If they have questions trying to decide, promptly answer them...but we will only seek them out and ask once.

We need to face the hard facts that we need to do a better job of developing our own players. We need to not only nurture their skills, but also to fuel their competitive desire.

This may seem myopic, but I would rather lose with 11 mediocre players giving maximum effort than to lose with 11 talented players who may not care enough to try to overcome adversity.

Know Nothing
Post #18
Thursday October 12, 2017 4:04pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,186
Thinking outside the box, we should seek out the Scandinavian federations whose leagues have shut down for the winter and work on details for an annual winter tournament in Florida, California, or Arizona (you can rotate it).

To add some spice to it, you can make it two tournaments in one...one open to full national and U-23 teams and the other open to U-20 and U-17 teams.

Granted everyones best talent would still be playing in Europe, but it is a means to try new players.

For instance, in the "Men's Tournament" you would have two groups of 4:

Group A: Norway U-23, Finland MNT, US U-23, Sweden MNT
Group B: Norway MNT, Finland U-23, US MNT, Sweden U-23

In the youth tournament, same deal.

Group A: Norway U-20, Finland U-17, US U-20, Sweden U-17
Group B: Norway U-17, Finland U-20, US U-17, Sweden U-20

This allows for the evaluation of quite a few players and affords training time for the domestic based players.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #19
Thursday October 12, 2017 4:16pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,321
Original post from Know Nothing

Thinking outside the box, we should seek out the Scandinavian federations whose leagues have shut down for the winter and work on details for an annual winter tournament in Florida, California, or Arizona (you can rotate it).

To add some spice to it, you can make it two tournaments in one...one open to full national and U-23 teams and the other open to U-20 and U-17 teams.

Granted everyones best talent would still be playing in Europe, but it is a means to try new players.

For instance, in the "Men's Tournament" you would have two groups of 4:

Group A: Norway U-23, Finland MNT, US U-23, Sweden MNT
Group B: Norway MNT, Finland U-23, US MNT, Sweden U-23

In the youth tournament, same deal.

Group A: Norway U-20, Finland U-17, US U-20, Sweden U-17
Group B: Norway U-17, Finland U-20, US U-17, Sweden U-20

This allows for the evaluation of quite a few players and affords training time for the domestic based players.


If you are going to do that I would expand it a little more too:
Iceland, also doesn't play in Winter
Ireland, also doesn't play in Winter
Brazil, also doesn't play in Winter
China, also doesn't play in Winter
South Korea, same
Canada, same

2 groups of 5. Play everyone once. Also would get some better teams in there (addition of Brazil, Iceland, South Korea, and Ireland would be good.

Top 2 from each group advance.

Call them in mid January, train for 2 weeks. Then play in February. Most of them start in March.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #20
Thursday October 12, 2017 4:23pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,321
Also finished with the stats from all the teams still alive for the world Cup:

24% are 30 and over (only Uruguay had 40%+ like the USA did...only their 30 and over crowd contains several world class players...ours doesn't).

47% are in their Prime Years. (only France had less than us. But they have several 23-24 year old World Class players).

28% are 24 and under.

Uruguay is the only one who had a make-up like we did that is still alive. And again you are talking about Godin, Cavani, Saurez, and Stuani. Compared to Dempsey, Cameron, Bradley, and Besler.

IE No comparison.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
Know Nothing
Post #21
Thursday October 12, 2017 5:09pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,186
Original post from USAGunner

If you are going to do that I would expand it a little more too:
Iceland, also doesn't play in Winter
Ireland, also doesn't play in Winter
Brazil, also doesn't play in Winter
China, also doesn't play in Winter
South Korea, same
Canada, same

2 groups of 5. Play everyone once. Also would get some better teams in there (addition of Brazil, Iceland, South Korea, and Ireland would be good.

Top 2 from each group advance.

Call them in mid January, train for 2 weeks. Then play in February. Most of them start in March.


Sure, the more the merrier

tylercocinas
Post #22
Thursday October 12, 2017 8:03pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,109
Original post from Know Nothing

I may get some stick for this, but we should not be heavily recruiting dual nationals. The shirt should be worn by players that want to wear it for pride purposes, not because we gave them the best offer.

I am not saying we don't talk to dual nationals, I am saying if we talk to them we give each one the same pitch...this is who we are, these are our plans and this is what we expect from you.

If they have questions trying to decide, promptly answer them...but we will only seek them out and ask once.

We need to face the hard facts that we need to do a better job of developing our own players. We need to not only nurture their skills, but also to fuel their competitive desire.

This may seem myopic, but I would rather lose with 11 mediocre players giving maximum effort than to lose with 11 talented players who may not care enough to try to overcome adversity.


Not saying that you were implying a correlation between dual nationals and WCQ, but what dual nationals were on the pitch in Trinidad? Pulisic (CRO), Omar (MEX), Paul (MEX), Jozy (HAI), and Jorge (MEX). We didn't lose that game because of Fabian Johnson, Julian Green, Timmy Chandler, Alfredo Morales, nor Danny Williams.

If you have options, you're going to look at your options. That doesn't mean you don't love both countries.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #23
Thursday October 12, 2017 8:29pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,238
Scouting to find better players and scouting to find better coaches. It's that simple folks.

Know Nothing
Post #24
Thursday October 12, 2017 8:33pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,186
Original post from tylercocinas

Not saying that you were implying a correlation between dual nationals and WCQ, but what dual nationals were on the pitch in Trinidad? Pulisic (CRO), Omar (MEX), Paul (MEX), Jozy (HAI), and Jorge (MEX). We didn't lose that game because of Fabian Johnson, Julian Green, Timmy Chandler, Alfredo Morales, nor Danny Williams.

If you have options, you're going to look at your options. That doesn't mean you don't love both countries.


I suppose I should have included dfw's original post into my post as it was a response to that.

Poaching dual nationals is a quick fix and doesn't fix the underlying problems of developing players. I am not implying any correlation between tuesdays result and the players that played or didn't play. I did a poor job of saying that for those players that agree to wear the shirt, we should expect 100% effort from them every time they wear it.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #25
Thursday October 12, 2017 9:20pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,144
Original post from tylercocinas

Not saying that you were implying a correlation between dual nationals and WCQ, but what dual nationals were on the pitch in Trinidad? Pulisic (CRO), Omar (MEX), Paul (MEX), Jozy (HAI), and Jorge (MEX). We didn't lose that game because of Fabian Johnson, Julian Green, Timmy Chandler, Alfredo Morales, nor Danny Williams.

If you have options, you're going to look at your options. That doesn't mean you don't love both countries.


FabJo and Chandler are dogs.

That doesn't mean that other dual-nationals don't have the love for the US, or that single-national US players are never dogs, but those two are garbage.

stoked3
Ft Lauderdale, FL
Post #26
Thursday October 12, 2017 9:54pm

Joined Oct 2014
Total Posts: 189
I agree with most statements, we need to develop our player pool. However, heart is a big part of the equation regarding dual nationals. I thought Jones, Green, always gave it their all; Johnson did last cycle. Chandler and Johnson this cycle had zero heart.

D. Williams played hard when given the chance.

Doesn't hurt us to bring on dual nationals so long as they fit into and buy into the team and Flag. And didn't just join the US b.c they didn't have any other options. Not sure who said it but we should ask 1x then its up to the player, then we move on.

The big thing is to stop the pay to play--and we need a TD who may not have ties to the US team. Polatics played a huge role in player selection on PDL, club, and the youth nats teams.

If we have a TD who only cares about soccer results and not the bottom line that will go along way.
Stoked
stoked3
Ft Lauderdale, FL
Post #27
Thursday October 12, 2017 10:07pm

Joined Oct 2014
Total Posts: 189
BTW the heart comment doesn't just apply to dual nationals. People like jozy who walk around the field in a must win game while down a goal should never see the field.
Stoked
Know Nothing
Post #28
Thursday October 12, 2017 11:18pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,186
Original post from stoked3

BTW the heart comment doesn't just apply to dual nationals. People like jozy who walk around the field in a must win game while down a goal should never see the field.


Too true

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #29
Thursday October 12, 2017 11:32pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,144
Original post from stoked3

BTW the heart comment doesn't just apply to dual nationals. People like jozy who walk around the field in a must win game while down a goal should never see the field.


Tell that to TSS

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #30
Friday October 13, 2017 1:33am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,144
Too, too many of the press are being soft on the whole system, or on the players, or on Gulati, etc.

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