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Lilshmike
Post #46
Thursday June 25, 2020 6:58pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,549
Boys, boys, boys... I've been saying this for at least the last year (when he got moved out to wing).

Morris is a forward. He started his career as a forward.

He got moved out to the wing after he injured his knee, when Seattle picked up Raul Ruidiaz as both a DP and filling option up top while he was out.

When Morris got back to health, he was too valuable to leave out of the starting lineup... but not as good as Ruidiaz at ST. As a result, he got pushed out to the wing in a front 3 (remember, Morris is very fast) in order to accommodate both of those guys in the starting lineup. This has bled over into the national team, as Morris has been playing wing at club... not ST.

I made almost this exact post like a year ago.

Dave
Post #47
Friday June 26, 2020 1:07am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 1,124
Original post from Lilshmike

Boys, boys, boys... I've been saying this for at least the last year (when he got moved out to wing).

Morris is a forward. He started his career as a forward.

He got moved out to the wing after he injured his knee, when Seattle picked up Raul Ruidiaz as both a DP and filling option up top while he was out.

When Morris got back to health, he was too valuable to leave out of the starting lineup... but not as good as Ruidiaz at ST. As a result, he got pushed out to the wing in a front 3 (remember, Morris is very fast) in order to accommodate both of those guys in the starting lineup. This has bled over into the national team, as Morris has been playing wing at club... not ST.

I made almost this exact post like a year ago.


I don't think many would disagree that Morris was a stop gap at the wide attacking position. A place holder until a legitimate option emerged to play opposite Pulisic. With the meteoric rise of Reyna over the past 6 months, there is no justifiable reason to keep Morris on the wing. Especially when there are additional depth options who will hopefully challenge him-players like Weah, Uli, & Boyd will hopefully all continue their development and push for minutes with the Sr. USMNT.
.
However, considering the lack of options at striker, IMO we haven't seen the last of Morris in a USMNT jersey. Jozy is likely still our 1st choice CF, but he's often injured and he is getting older and lazy(er). Sargent has shown flashes of class, but needs to be more consistent and ruthless in front of goal. Zardes has the hustle and motor, but lacks the technical ability the rest of the team is moving towards. Nova may be an option, but I see him more as a throwback target CF. I'm not sure he has the speed to press or the movement off the ball to assist in the slow, methodical build-up play that the team is moving towards. I think of him like AC did with Gooch at times....a player to throw on when down a goal and you're lofting balls into the box and hoping for him to get a head on it.
There are other young players people are bantering around, but none of them have really made a solid case at the club level to really force their way into the discussion-.so I'd give the nod to Morris on experience if I were putting together a roster right now; I'd have him & possibly Zardes as the 3rd & 4th string striker and a depth option for the wing to help kill off a game

bjelks
Post #48
Friday June 26, 2020 2:37am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,920
Original post from Dave

I don't think many would disagree that Morris was a stop gap at the wide attacking position. A place holder until a legitimate option emerged to play opposite Pulisic. With the meteoric rise of Reyna over the past 6 months, there is no justifiable reason to keep Morris on the wing. Especially when there are additional depth options who will hopefully challenge him-players like Weah, Uli, & Boyd will hopefully all continue their development and push for minutes with the Sr. USMNT.
.
However, considering the lack of options at striker, IMO we haven't seen the last of Morris in a USMNT jersey. Jozy is likely still our 1st choice CF, but he's often injured and he is getting older and lazy(er). Sargent has shown flashes of class, but needs to be more consistent and ruthless in front of goal. Zardes has the hustle and motor, but lacks the technical ability the rest of the team is moving towards. Nova may be an option, but I see him more as a throwback target CF. I'm not sure he has the speed to press or the movement off the ball to assist in the slow, methodical build-up play that the team is moving towards. I think of him like AC did with Gooch at times....a player to throw on when down a goal and you're lofting balls into the box and hoping for him to get a head on it.
There are other young players people are bantering around, but none of them have really made a solid case at the club level to really force their way into the discussion-.so I'd give the nod to Morris on experience if I were putting together a roster right now; I'd have him & possibly Zardes as the 3rd & 4th string striker and a depth option for the wing to help kill off a game


What do you think about Jesus Ferraria?

What was your justification of Jozy being the first choice? You just said he's old and lazy lol.

I also don't think we carry more than 2 9s.
Worse come to worse, Weah and Reyna can play false 9.
goalsense
Dave
Post #49
Friday June 26, 2020 5:16am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 1,124
Original post from bjelks

What do you think about Jesus Ferraria?

What was your justification of Jozy being the first choice? You just said he's old and lazy lol.

I also don't think we carry more than 2 9s.
Worse come to worse, Weah and Reyna can play false 9.

-
Personally I like Ferraria, and believe he's in the mix for the 3rd striker spot. He plays really well between the lines of the oppositions CB's & CM. His link up play was spot on in his only USMNT match. My concern with him is can he actually be the point of the spear in a 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-3-1....or is he more of a withdrawn/2nd striker/False 9 type.
-
I give the nod to Jozy for right now due to experience. But it's becoming very, very narrow margins. CONCACAF is an extremely physical region and his size & strength serves him well...especially in away games. That said, he's going to have to stay healthy and improve his fitness to remain relevant much longer with this team.
-
Yes Weah & Reyna can play a false 9....but as I mentioned CONCACAF is a physical region. I question if either could stand up to the beatings that most of the regions CB's lay on CFs. Outside of CONCACAF I'd be more open to them being used as in this roll.
-
I've rarely seen any national team (except Spain) carry less than 3 strikers on a Tournament roster. Traditionally you get 8 Defenders, 8 Midfielders, & 4 forwards....unless you're truly committed to the 4-3-3 formation. Since I believe our best formation is a 4-2-3-1, I'm projecting 3 CFs...Jozy, Sargent, Morris (for now). This still gives us 1 spot to use on a flyer.
Yes, Reyna & Weah could also fill-in at striker, but their primary position on my squad would still be wingers.
-
If I were picking a roster from our player pool I'd select a formation that best suits our best XI players....than try and balance depth at unique positions with players who are versatile enough to cover multiple positions....or can best match up against an opponents strength. Currently we don't have enough quality/ability to pick the best 20 and let them dictate the game (yet). We have to be adaptable to what our opponents strengths & weaknesses are and pick a roster that can match them or exploit their weaknesses.
-
We can't take this cycle for granted like we did in 2018. We have to be prepared to mix & match our player pool to give us the best opportunity to get results. if that means we play a 4-3-3 with physically robust players (Yedlin, Fabian, Adams, McKennie, Morales, Zardes, Morris, Jozy) and slug it out in a physical battle so be it.
Next game we could field a 4-2-3-1 with speed/technical players (Dest, A. Robinson, Adams, McKennie, Reyna, Pulisic, Uli, Sargent) and make the opponent chase us around all game.
Until we actually qualify we have to be pragmatic and take what our opponents give us and maybe even have 2 different rosters and styles depending on if we're Home or Away. At least until our prospects mature and prove themselves in adverse situations.

hamsamwich
Post #50
Friday June 26, 2020 3:03pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,540
I think Robinson is going to finally put some bulk on now that he's getting into his twenties. I'd love to see him go to Italy or anywhere that isn't Wigan after this season, just to add a different flavor to his game. His problem for the national could simply be competition at LB, an unheard of potential position of strength for the USA. Gloster, maybe a few more like Sousa and the talented hotshots (Kobe, Gomez, Bello?) coming up to challenge Robinson. And of course because of the depth at RB it's always a possibility GGG will put Dest on the left side and bench Robinson. And the Tim Ream as LB thing must always be kept in mind. The competition will bring out the best in Antonee I think which is good for the USA. The time is right for Robinson to stake his claim as we are running out of games to impress Gregg the next time he plays needs to be good.

bjelks
Post #51
Friday June 26, 2020 8:52pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,920
Original post from Dave

-
Personally I like Ferraria, and believe he's in the mix for the 3rd striker spot. He plays really well between the lines of the oppositions CB's & CM. His link up play was spot on in his only USMNT match. My concern with him is can he actually be the point of the spear in a 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-3-1....or is he more of a withdrawn/2nd striker/False 9 type.
-
I give the nod to Jozy for right now due to experience. But it's becoming very, very narrow margins. CONCACAF is an extremely physical region and his size & strength serves him well...especially in away games. That said, he's going to have to stay healthy and improve his fitness to remain relevant much longer with this team.
-
Yes Weah & Reyna can play a false 9....but as I mentioned CONCACAF is a physical region. I question if either could stand up to the beatings that most of the regions CB's lay on CFs. Outside of CONCACAF I'd be more open to them being used as in this roll.
-
I've rarely seen any national team (except Spain) carry less than 3 strikers on a Tournament roster. Traditionally you get 8 Defenders, 8 Midfielders, & 4 forwards....unless you're truly committed to the 4-3-3 formation. Since I believe our best formation is a 4-2-3-1, I'm projecting 3 CFs...Jozy, Sargent, Morris (for now). This still gives us 1 spot to use on a flyer.
Yes, Reyna & Weah could also fill-in at striker, but their primary position on my squad would still be wingers.
-
If I were picking a roster from our player pool I'd select a formation that best suits our best XI players....than try and balance depth at unique positions with players who are versatile enough to cover multiple positions....or can best match up against an opponents strength. Currently we don't have enough quality/ability to pick the best 20 and let them dictate the game (yet). We have to be adaptable to what our opponents strengths & weaknesses are and pick a roster that can match them or exploit their weaknesses.
-
We can't take this cycle for granted like we did in 2018. We have to be prepared to mix & match our player pool to give us the best opportunity to get results. if that means we play a 4-3-3 with physically robust players (Yedlin, Fabian, Adams, McKennie, Morales, Zardes, Morris, Jozy) and slug it out in a physical battle so be it.
Next game we could field a 4-2-3-1 with speed/technical players (Dest, A. Robinson, Adams, McKennie, Reyna, Pulisic, Uli, Sargent) and make the opponent chase us around all game.
Until we actually qualify we have to be pragmatic and take what our opponents give us and maybe even have 2 different rosters and styles depending on if we're Home or Away. At least until our prospects mature and prove themselves in adverse situations.


Actually most if not all national teams pick players based on their system.
The number of strikers, backs, mids, etc is based on your system and what is needed to backup every position.

If we're in a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1, we only need 1 backup 9 unless we're taking a 3rd that can play multiple positions.
What we actually need in this system is 8 backs, 6 mids, 4 wings, 2 strikers, and a utility guy.
2 Gks of course.

I'll disagree on us not having the quality to dictate a game. I believe we do.
Regarding concacaf, I don't care what other teams have or what their strengths are, we have the best 23 player players in the region.

I don't think we should change our style or roster based on opponent, France and Brazil don't do that. They put their best on the field and try to the boss the game. So anything outside of our best quality players is a waste of time.

I think picking lesser players bc of fear of physicality is the type of crazy Arena idea that caused us not to qualify. The pragmatic strategy is to play your best players and try to score more goals than the other team.

I don't know who the prospects are or what that means. I only see footballers. If Gio, Richie, Sarge, Uly, Dest, Antonee, Duane can break through at big clubs in adverse club environments they're surely more prepared to get a result in Panama or Honduras than the guys that lost in Canada with no top level club experience.
goalsense
Dave
Post #52
Saturday June 27, 2020 12:55am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 1,124
Original post from bjelks

What we actually need in this system is 8 backs, 6 mids, 4 wings, 2 strikers, and a utility guy.
2 Gks of course.
For tournaments you're required to carry 3 dedicated GK.

I'll disagree on us not having the quality to dictate a game. I believe we do.
Regarding concacaf, I don't care what other teams have or what their strengths are, we have the best 23 player players in the region.
No we don't. We may arguably have the 7-10 of the top 20 but Mexico has just as many (or more) quality players...and there are a usually a couple on CR's team. On a quality field I agree we can dictate to most of CONCACAF, but we can't take for granted that we'll win every game. The formula for advancing to the WC out of our regions HEX is Win your home games and get a handful of results in the away fixtures. We failed to do that last cycle.

I don't think we should change our style or roster based on opponent, France and Brazil don't do that. They put their best on the field and try to the boss the game. So anything outside of our best quality players is a waste of time.
We aren't France, Brazil, or anyone else. We don't have an assembly line of top players. We've got a fairly high quality level for our starting XI....and possibly a couple extras. I'd rather risk a 2nd or 3rd tier player (Morris/Zardes) on the shit fields in Guatemala & El Salvador than risk Reyna.

I think picking lesser players bc of fear of physicality is the type of crazy Arena idea that caused us not to qualify. The pragmatic strategy is to play your best players and try to score more goals than the other team.
Arena chose his players not because of fear of physicality, but reliance on players he knew/trusted. Again I'd rather risk Morris/Zardes/Morales to the hack tactics than a Reyan or Dest. Even our 2nd/3rd tier players should be good enough to get the necessary results. It just won't be as pretty.

I don't know who the prospects are or what that means. I only see footballers. If Gio, Richie, Sarge, Uly, Dest, Antonee, Duane can break through at big clubs in adverse club environments they're surely more prepared to get a result in Panama or Honduras than the guys that lost in Canada with no top level club experience.
On quality fields with impartial refs I'd play our best players every time. Unfortunately, that's not what you get in away games in CONCACAF. Outside of the US, Mexico & Canada the fields in CONCACAF are shit. Our best players (Gio, Dest, Pulisic, etc...) have to change their natural playing style to deal with the field conditions...and their vastly superior technical ability is marginalized. While someone like Zardes, who isn't that technical to begin with, doesn't have to change his game as much. Getting results in El Salvador & Guatemala with our 2nd/3rd tier players is still achievable without risking injuries to our top players. Injuries that could sideline them for months, and prevent them from getting the more important Home wins. The loss to Canada while painful was not a loss that hurt us all that much since it was during a worthless tournament and was Greg's decision making more than anything else.


EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #53
Thursday July 30, 2020 9:16am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,386
http://www.americansoccernow.com/articles/aft...

Good read from Sciaretta

Lilshmike
Post #54
Thursday July 30, 2020 4:40pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,549
Wigan was relegated...

Which means Robinson can now go with a release clause of less than $2m...

@bjelks... $20m bidding war, eh? How about that...

hamsamwich
Post #55
Thursday July 30, 2020 5:56pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,540
I think it would pretty great if Robinson could play outside of England and work on a different style of play. Either way he's playing first division soccer somewhere next year. Especially at that price.

Samtom23
Post #56
Thursday July 30, 2020 6:55pm

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 514
Original post from hamsamwich

I think it would pretty great if Robinson could play outside of England and work on a different style of play. Either way he's playing first division soccer somewhere next year. Especially at that price.


Be nice to see where he ends up.

Lilshmike
Post #57
Thursday July 30, 2020 7:58pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,549
If he isn't going to find a team in either at least lower to mid table Prem, Bundesliga, La Liga, or Serie A where he is able to cement a starting position and play every week... I'd rather have him stay in the Championship, playing every week, so he can continue developing like he has this last season.

For example, I wouldn't like him to go to a big name club only to be a bench option. I'd like him playing all the time. For me that is whats most important, especially at this stage in his career.

Samtom23
Post #58
Friday July 31, 2020 2:13am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 514
Original post from Lilshmike

If he isn't going to find a team in either at least lower to mid table Prem, Bundesliga, La Liga, or Serie A where he is able to cement a starting position and play every week... I'd rather have him stay in the Championship, playing every week, so he can continue developing like he has this last season.

For example, I wouldn't like him to go to a big name club only to be a bench option. I'd like him playing all the time. For me that is whats most important, especially at this stage in his career.


I think he says that himself in the interview. Most likely it's the Championship or a low level Premier league team.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #59
Friday July 31, 2020 3:33am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,605
I mean AC Milan showing that they wanted him should mean he could play for other big teams. I would love to see him in the Bundesliga.

BMD15
Boston
Post #60
Friday July 31, 2020 8:53pm

Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts: 157
Sorry to disappoint guys but we can just table this discussion. Brian Kleiban, savior of American soccer, says Antonee Robinson isn't cut out for the national team...ARob, we hardly knew ye

https://youtu.be/XkjQNpVioPM (about 2:30 in)

Kobe Hernandez-Foster just signed with Wolfsburg and has 114 USL minutes, cap him now!!!
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