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Rey Regicide
Post #181
Thursday July 13, 2017 12:54pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,739
Original post from skangles

This.

Kevin Parsemain has looked really good in the first two games. He would be a bargain pickup for a MLS team looking for attacking depth and if he doesn't get an offer from MLS then he'd be a heck of an addition for any USL or NASL side.


That's fine. I took a look at the youtube, too, and saw that. Couldn't believe it, but all credit to them. But please don't sell me that we're Concacaf dominators. A B or C team beats a minnow like Martinique, handedly.

A B team for a dominant team wins their tournament. With ease.

skangles
DC
Post #182
Thursday July 13, 2017 1:05pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,150
Different squads with different managers so I am not implying a common thread but we have managed to string together 7 poor performances in our last 8 Gold Cup games.

2017
3-2 W vs Martinique - Disappointing
1-1 D vs Panama - Disappointing

2015
1-1 (3-2 loss on PKs) vs Panama - Disappointing
2-1 L vs Jamaica - Just Shoot Me
6-0 W vs Cuba - That was fun
1-1 D vs Panama - Disappointing
1-0 W vs Haiti - Disappointing
2-1 W vs Honduras - Disappointing

skangles
DC
Post #183
Thursday July 13, 2017 1:10pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,150
Original post from Rey Regicide

That's fine. I took a look at the youtube, too, and saw that. Couldn't believe it, but all credit to them. But please don't sell me that we're Concacaf dominators. A B or C team beats a minnow like Martinique, handedly.

A B team for a dominant team wins their tournament. With ease.


I don't know what you think I am selling you. I am in agreement with db that if Martinique were eligible for WCQ they would be part of the last 12. They're a cut above most Caribbean teams and I'd put them on the level of Haiti.

MSantoine
Post #184
Thursday July 13, 2017 4:58pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,688
Why all the love for Zardes? Did people watch a different game then me? Yes his pass to Morris was awesome and he was in dangerous spots all game but he was in dangerous spots all game and his touch was horrendous. he consistently had poor touches. Was the LB just playing off him knowhing he'd screw up? Agudelo, Acosta, and Morris kept putting him in a spot to make the final pass and he couldnt do it until the very end. Rowe out there instead of him and we probably score 3 goals in the first half.

And enough with this talking up Martinique crap. If those players cant beat semi pros, at home, then they cant help qualify for a world cup. Roldan, Zardes, Omar, Hedges should not get any looks once the gold cup is done.

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #185
Thursday July 13, 2017 8:50pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,184
Sometimes there are too many players and changes to assess individual performances. Sure, you're always looking for the player that can bring it together and make others around them perform better as a unit...and gross outlier poor performance is easy. Sometimes it looks like strangers at a pick up kick around...everyone's trying to sort it out and everyone's performance is affected by the other players in close proximity...off the ball movement, which is critical, suffers...nobody has confidence in their runs being productive...which minimizes movement and options to play to...making everything look disjointed and stagnate...so guys turn to trying to do too much individually...which turns into a disjointed crapfest.

I thought there was too much pressure placed on Acosta to be a creator in the 4-4-2. Neither Zardes or Arriola are cut in creators...they drive the line. It should have been obvious for Arena that was a bridge too far for Acosta...his attacking game isn't close enough to pull that off.

Rey - great post, by the way on Roldan's roll.

I don't think you can make long term projections for players in such a disjointed game...barring of course truly shambolic play.

db707
Post #186
Thursday July 13, 2017 10:32pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 395
Giving Martinique some credit for being better than some people think isn't to excuse us nearly failing to beat them. My original point was I never expected us to blow them out. Conceding twice, having scant few individual bright spots, poor team cohesion and leadership, these are all still serious problems. The players not being good enough bear a lot of the burden, Arena as the coach as well (I wondered before the tournament who the captain would be, still not seeing a true captain out there).

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #187
Friday July 14, 2017 1:06am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 1,850
Thoughts on Spector being passed over for these CBs?

Dave
Post #188
Friday July 14, 2017 2:54am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 682
Original post from skangles

For me the biggest loser was Hedges. That's not exactly fair but it's the nature of the situation. I thought he really had a poor game with several mistakes and he faces intense competition at CB with a limited opportunity to make his case. He was far worse than Omar today and I have to think that he's now behind Omar, Ream and Besler as the backup CBs. If the rumors are true that the four Liga MX players will be returning to their clubs after the Group stage then that could give Hedges a second chance to redeem himself against a decent opponent. If Omar stays, I don't see Hedges getting another shot.


I'm torn on where the CB's fell last night. I agree Hedges didn't distinguish himself, but not sure if he lost any ground in the depth chart because of it. As for Omar, I have a bit of dislike for him as a player (distrust from past performances), so tend to grade him Incredibly strictly. At Omar's age and with his experience (40+ caps) he should be standing out from the rest of the current team, but he's not. His performances have been average, at best,....so see that as a negative for someone who should be a veteran leader.

bjelks
Post #189
Friday July 14, 2017 3:38am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 363
@dave a big problem with us soccer is we value age and experience over talent.
Age and experience mean nothing w/ out talent.
Talent will beat age and experience any day.
goalsense
Dave
Post #190
Friday July 14, 2017 4:51am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 682
bjelks - there are multiple tipping points in a players career.
Prospect: Young player with talent, but is still learning.
Inexperienced: Youngish player who is nearly a finished product. They have the skills, but will still make some stupid errors.
Mature: Finished product. Top of physical ability & talent.
Experienced (Aging): Finished product who's starting to slip physically.
Old: A player for who has outlasted their usefulness. Physical ability & talent dropping quickly.

Each player will hit these tipping points at different ages based on what the level of talent is, and what they've been exposed to. Sometimes the transition from stage to stage is quick (Pulisic), sometimes it can take a long time (Dempsey). Other times players stall out at a given point and never progress beyond (Adu).

IMO the bulk of a team should be constructed around "Mature" players. These are the guys who should be the core of your team (~16 of the 23 players). Than to me it is generally better to give time to first 2 groups of players than it is the later 2 groups; unless the talent level of the player in question is drastically higher than that of another player.
I was pleased to see some names when the GC roster was released (Acosta, Morris, Agudelo, Miazga, Saief, Arriola, Roldan) but was very disappointed to see others (McCarty, Pontious, Wondo, Zusi, Bedoya). Ultimately I guess Arena rates these guys higher than I do....as IMO there are any number of players I'd categorize as "Inexperienced" who should have been brought in their place....or was thinking that they'd provide the veteran leadership needed to help mold the inexperienced players. Unfortunately the "Veterans" have failed to actually lead this team.

bjelks
Post #191
Friday July 14, 2017 5:35am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 363
Perhaps the "veterans" such as Omar, Bedoya, McCarty, Zusi have struggled to lead because they're not better than the young players
goalsense
MSantoine
Post #192
Friday July 14, 2017 11:21am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,688
Original post from bjelks

Perhaps the "veterans" such as Omar, Bedoya, McCarty, Zusi have struggled to lead because they're not better than the young players


This can be a huge problem. You have young players who want to do things the right way and not "rock the boat" so they try to take there place in the team and let the "veterans" lead.

On the broadcast they even said Acosta made this very point regarding his free kick/corner kick usage. He said he always felt he could be dangerous with them but when he was younger he didnt want to upset the apple cart and demand to take them. So he let lesser people take them.

It would not surprise me if Hedges thought he was supposed to let Omar call out the defense (when to move the line up, when to switch, etc) or a guy like Acosta expecting bedoya/McCarty to decide which of them moves up and which stays back to defend. Especially when you have some veterans who are clearly coach's pets (Omar, Zusi, even Zardes falls in that group) you dont want to upset them for fear of them going to Arena and now you are on the outs.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #193
Friday July 14, 2017 6:33pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 1,850
You think that they'd "go to Arena"?

MSantoine
Post #194
Friday July 14, 2017 8:56pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,688
All I know is if Miazga isnt in there tomorrow Im done with Arena. Why take him away from Chelsea (they've had 6 other young guys scooped up in loans/transfers already) if you arent going to play him. If you dont like how he looked after Ghana they should have dumped him then, or created a fake injury to swap him out after Panama. No reason to string him along. He should be getting minutes or be with Chelsea. Doing neither is beyond bad coaching

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #195
Friday July 14, 2017 9:28pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 1,850
I know it's only a small number of games here, but how can some of these guys look solid against Ghana, then worse against lesser teams like Panama or Martinique?

HOW.

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