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mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #1
Friday June 23, 2017 10:14pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,144
Jones has had some great matches for the USMNT, and he scored one of the most important goals in USMNT history.

ALSO, I highly suspect that he is horribly disruptive to chemistry, and has been a drag on the US since the 2014 WC ended. (I think that the people who knew this and wouldn't call him out directly are cowards, by the way)

ALSO, this: https://twitter.com/DaMexicoStats_/status/877...

He is our Lawrence of Arabia: suffering hero for first half, villain for the second half.

Jones is dead to me. If Arena calls him in once, Arena's dead to me.
Galaxy is dead to me, at least until they get rid of him. (I never wanted him in the first place, it's the stupid "over-pay 35 year olds" thing they've been doing for years)

I'm not over-reacting, everyone else is under-reacting.

I now have a three player list of people who were a disgrace to the USMNT:
John Harkes (ruining our '98 WC by sleeping with Wynalda's wife months before the tourney, and getting canned for it, thus ruining both our morale and our starting XI
Freddy Adu (being a complete bum, over and over and over and over again)
Jermaine Jones (disruption and selfishness, putting on a Mexico jersey)

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #2
Friday June 23, 2017 10:25pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,144
I mean, I kept mostly quiet about that dude around here in 2015 and 2016.
Now I'm done.

I'm sick of the pig circus that he's trying to put on.

navi8132
New York
Post #3
Friday June 23, 2017 11:53pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 2,756
Is there any precedent of a USMNT player wearing another country's jersey (much less Mexico) when the USA isn't in the tournament?

dolcem
Post #4
Saturday June 24, 2017 10:24am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,755
I'm sorry guys but you're wrong about this one.

Jermaine Jones was one of the most important players in USNT history. His tenacity, fearlessness, and competitiveness were unmatched by any other player we've had in recent history. He always gave 110% and embodied everything we want from our players. Well, maybe not everything. He's a dirty player and kind of a jerk...but we needed someone like that in our locker room. Someone who played at the highest level and has the confidence (or arrogance, depending on which way you look at it) to go toe to toe with any player in the world. Sometimes good to have a few guys like that in the squad (has done wonders for the Seahawks).

More importantly, this guy was a dual-national. At a time when we had a lot of them breaking into the team and there were many concerns about the dynamic between them and the American players and, more importantly, their own level of commitment (cough cough Chandler), Jones was there to be a shining example for them. I don't care if he joined us late in his career. When he put on the shirt, he was playing for glory and left absolutely nothing on the field, and I have no doubt this is one of the reasons the other dual nationals in that 2014 squad played so hard as well. And let's not forget that he was definitely our best field player that World Cup despite being played out of position.

I think you guys are getting mixed up with club teams. Sure, you're never supposed to put on your rival club teams jersey. But we're not talking about Barcelona vs. Real Madrid, these are national teams. When Argentina played Germany in the 2014 final, most Brazilians wanted them to win. Sure, a lot of them didn't and were very vocal about it (mainly because the Argentines are such annoyingly sore winners), but especially if any Latin team other than Argentina is playing a European team, the rest of Latin America will support that team. If Uruguay is playing Germany, Colombians will root for the charruas. I know this because I've been to most countries in Latin America and was living in Argentina at the time of the 2014 World Cup (and was in Brazil right before it).

I root for CONCACAF teams outside of CONCACAF in the same way that people root for teams from their own conferences in college football bowl games, even when it's their arch rivals. Maybe it's because I'm a Mexican citizen (long story, I'm 100% white American without Mexican descent if that's what you're asking), but this includes Mexico. Of course there's a bit of a conflict I have because Mexican fans can be SO annoying. So if there's a big upset about to happen, I might root against Mexico because it's funny to see their egos deflated. But other than that, especially when Mexico plays top teams, I root for them.

There is absolutely nothing to see here and some of the comments that have been made about this (not referring to you guys) have been quite racist. Because of the amount of tension between our two countries and the embarrassment that is our president, Jones did the right thing. Everyone hates Americans right now-Mexicans have good reason to right now-so it's great to see something something positive coming from our side at the moment.
GET A CLUB TEAM
SamHays1999
Kansas
Post #5
Saturday June 24, 2017 11:18am

Joined May 2017
Total Posts: 173
I'm personally on mmee's side here. Maybe not as extremely, but mostly agree. I'd be done putting Jermaine Jones on the squad, both for the reason mmee stated and that I want to go for younger CDMs who I would prefer right now regardless. The glowing example right now is definitely Kellyn Acosta. He should be our #1 CDM no matter what. And we saw another one for the future in the U-20s who I really like in Derrick Jones. Jermaine Jones's time on the USMNT should be over. It's the guys like Howard, Dempsey, and maybe Bradley, if he step it up, who should be the veteran examples to help out the youth. No more Jones or Beasley even.

hamsamwich
Post #6
Saturday June 24, 2017 12:43pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,516
Jones and Beasley are legends for two different reasons (Beasley is better than Villafaña right now still).

Jones was a beast, but his time is up.

dolcem
Post #7
Saturday June 24, 2017 12:53pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,755
His game is up and I, too, think he should be phased out. I didn't say he should still be playing for us. I'm just referring to the reaction to him wearing a Mexican NT jersey. There's nothing wrong with what he did and he's not a villain. He's a USNT legend and always a hero in my book.
GET A CLUB TEAM
mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #8
Saturday June 24, 2017 5:35pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,144
I know it's kinda hard to remember on BBS boards who said what in the past, but my complete disgust with Jones in no way means that I'm an ultra-nationalist or hate Mexicans.

When I wrote US Soccer about this, I wrote out an "even though" list. I'll quote it here. I massively object to Jones wearing a MNT jersey even though:

• I fully support that the USNT demonstrated a show of unity with MNT on Nov 11, 2016, win, lose or draw. In a very real sense, I wouldn't trade that for a victory on that day without that show of unity.

• I support healthy respect between USNT and MNT fans and players; I think fans should have a friendly rapport at all times. I have practiced what I preach here at all times.

• I agree with the general idea that the better CONCACAF does, the better it is for the US.

• I have no personal animus toward any Mexican-American players who decide to play for either national team, or whose hearts are torn on this matter.

• ....and after saying the above, I hope you'd assume that I'm good with USNT and MNT players playing club ball together.

I'm surprised that dolcem thinks wearing the rival jersey matters for club but not for country. Good grief. There are so many other ways he could have wished Dos Santos or even Mex luck without putting on the jersey. I don't think he did it to be tone-deaf. I think he did it because he likes causing a scene.
I will bet you guys anything that at times he's a divider in that locker room, and maybe has been since the problems in 2013. He's all about himself.

Dave
Post #9
Saturday June 24, 2017 6:46pm

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 767
I am a huge fan of our veteran players...Howard, Jones, Beasley, Dempsey, etc... they've helped to take soccer in the US to where it is now, and have influenced countless young players who'll carry the torch going forward.

That being said they are human and will make some bad choices/decisions. IMO Jones putting a MNT jersey on was a poor decision. There are other ways he could have supported his club teammate competing in a competition the US isn't in....a scarf, a flag, etc... This shouldn't take away from all that he's contributed to the USMNT or what he's done in the past, but will likely effect his future with the Team. Recall that when Dempsey had his issue (ripping up the ref's notebook), he lost the Captains Armband and was left out of the side for a few games. Now when Dempsey did that there wasn't many players challenging him for a roster spot, where-as Jones has significant challengers.

I'm not a person who believes in replacing players strictly due to their age, but it is time to shelve both Jones & Beasley. While both can still play & contribute they are not significantly better than younger options (Acosta & Villafana). When the difference in quality between 2 players isn't significant you should be giving the minutes to the younger option in order to give them the experience they'll need to improve as individuals and as a team. Beasley & Jones should only be called up again if something happens to sideline one of the Veterans.
This is also why I strongly believe that Howard/Dempsey shouldn't be called up for friendlies any more. Us some of the younger options to get them experience & integrated into the team. We can't count on these guys forever, and if we don't find replacements then we're in real trouble.

hamsamwich
Post #10
Saturday June 24, 2017 11:43pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,516
@dave- I'd agree Acosta over Jones is similar, but Villafaña has poor awareness and will cost USA a goal at the wrong time, so I wouldn't lump Beasley in there. He is still in the first situation you described where the upcoming talent (Villafaña, Garza, Morrow, whoever) hasn't proven to be better, but with a similar attitude. In that case @mmee is correct, Acosta over Jones because of attitude and team spirit.

SamHays1999
Kansas
Post #11
Sunday June 25, 2017 12:37am

Joined May 2017
Total Posts: 173
Original post from Dave

This is also why I strongly believe that Howard/Dempsey shouldn't be called up for friendlies any more. Us some of the younger options to get them experience & integrated into the team. We can't count on these guys forever, and if we don't find replacements then we're in real trouble.


Agreed. Ethan Horvath, Zach Steffen, and Jesse Gonzalez are the future of goalkeeper for us. Horvath has ONE senior team cap. ONE. And still has more than the other two. Steffen has played just U-20 WC in 2015 and a little bit of U-23 stuff, while Gonzalez has played for Mexican youth. Horvath not making the Gold Cup side is disappointing for me, but hopefully he gets time afterwards. The one young GK we do have on the side is Gonzalez, and I'm hoping he atleast plays against Martinique in GC. And for Dempsey, with guys like Wood, Dwyer, etc., definitely shouldn't be playing friendlies.

bjelks
Post #12
Sunday June 25, 2017 2:31am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 410
Jermaine Jones was our best player in the last World Cup and one of our best players ever. He just happens to be 35 and past his prime. If we are disappointed in anything, it should start with players like Wondo and Beckerman starting in the last World Cup and Bedoya and Zusi continuing to get calls.
Bradley scored a hell of a goal in the last game, but he's beginning to be pushed by clearly better players.
By the next WC, we could have 11 World Class players in the 11, but Bruce will have to make tough decisions and push the old weight out.
It would be a travesty if Acosta, D. Will, and Mckennie don't make the team.
goalsense
Dave
Post #13
Sunday June 25, 2017 4:22am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 767
@bjelks - There are going to be a number of quality players left off the 2018 WC roster. Be it for injuries or because someone else provides greater versatility. There are going to be some tough decisions....and that is why I was disappointed that Bruce chose so many "Old Dogs" and MLS guys, but didn't call up many of the Fringe guys from Europe for the Gold Cup.
I understand the desire to have European guys (especially the young ones) involved in their clubs pre-season, but players like Williams, Gooch, Hyndman, & Green should have been included over McCarty, Bedoya, Zusi, & Wondo.

Some players (Mckennie & CCV) aren't likely to be added to the team until after the 2018 WC. That's when we'll get a new manager who'll have their own thoughts on players/formations. We'll also see a lot of the older players retire from international competition between 2018-19.
Retiring after 2018 WC:
Howard, Dempsey, Besler, Bedoya, Zusi, Gonzalez, Jones, Ream, Williams, Lichaj.
Retiring or pushed out after 2019 GC:
Guzan, Cameron, Bradley, Fabian, Williams, Chandler, Villafana/Graza, Hedges, Morales, Johannsson(?), Jozy(?)

That is a large portion of our 23 & depth players that will have to be replaced over the next 2 years.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #14
Sunday June 25, 2017 10:52am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,144


I'm going to put the actual picture here, for those of you who think it's not a big deal. Maybe this will help you.
By the way, in case you need a fricking reminder, Mexico is in the Confed Cup because they beat us out for it, and Jones was in those matches.


admsghs27
Post #15
Sunday June 25, 2017 11:29am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
I always been against players not born in USA simply because they don't have the culture and love for this country. Til the day I die I will never ever be fully supported of non born USA players because they don't have the heart or believe as a REAL American that actually grew up here. No offense in those non born who represent our country but they will never have the same love as those who are from here is just a fact. I Just took A quick Look At The Starting usa Lineup vs Mexico and Including subs All Were Born here Love The Real American Attitude...

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