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mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #331
Monday June 12, 2017 9:29pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 1,850
Original post from Rey Regicide
I would imagine that at youth levels you get taught vanilla tactics. But as you get more sophisticated, or the need becomes more pressing, they change to fit what best hides vulnerabilities.


For youth soccer, vanilla tactics a lot, but also to take away what the other player likes and what the other team wants. This sometimes includes pressing a player inward, but it's not very common, and it would probably be to take away either their preferred foot, OR to take away their speed (i.e. around the outside).

joey11
Post #332
Monday June 12, 2017 10:30pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 263
Original post from MSantoine

Not sure how anyone who watched the game can be happy going forward. We were lucky to not lose 6-2 or 7-3. Mexico was horrendous in the final third (that air mailing from the 6 yard box late was atrocious). We also had some extremely last second clearances by Cameron that you cant count on going forward.

I know possession isnt everything but if you let a team hold the ball 75% of the time, and take 5-6 times the amount of shots as you take you're going to lose more often than not.

Arena played for the draw and got it so thats great. But usually when you play for a draw you lose more than not.

Also werent we sick of JK preaching attacking soccer and then bunkering down against any decent opponent? I thought we were done hiding vs good teams and hoping for a lucky goal?


It was the game plan, limit opportunities. It was ugly but it was meant to be. How you're not happy with a point coming out of that hell hole is beyond me.

Know Nothing
Post #333
Monday June 12, 2017 11:11pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,062
Original post from joey11

It was the game plan, limit opportunities. It was ugly but it was meant to be. How you're not happy with a point coming out of that hell hole is beyond me.


I think his argument is why didn't we try to go toe to toe with them and try to improve or show how good we are. For me, it is nice to be able to have a plan B, it makes you difficult to defend.

I agree with you...the bottom line is qualifying, not aesthetics. However there seems to be a greater team spirit which has me enthused going forward.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #334
Monday June 12, 2017 11:27pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,116
Original post from cudevil

2-the Moreno free kick off the bar.


Technically hitting a post or bar is not considered a shot on target. But yeah I forgot aboutnthT one.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #335
Monday June 12, 2017 11:31pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,116
Considering how we started the HEX with two losses; I don't see why anyone would be that concerned about aesthetic play against Mexico in Azteca.

I am more confident that this team is capable of playing attractive soccer under Bruce. Nagbe and Pulisic as well Acosta will improve our possession play in midfield.

Right now I don't care how the USMNT play as long as they qualify.

MSantoine
Post #336
Monday June 12, 2017 11:52pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,688
People realize that a loss wouldn't have hurt while a win would have almost guaranteed qualification (assuming wins against Panama and T&T).

It takes 16 points to be safe (15 maybe). If we lost we still get to the magic number with 3 wins in 4 games. The draw still makes us really need 3 wins, or 2 wins and 2 draws. Not too much difference. A win would have been massive and the game plan should have been gamble for a win. Not sit back and hope Mexico doesn't play well.

A point is nice but that's as lucky a point you'll see. (Bradley doesn't score that goal if they play that game 99 more times)

Dave
Post #337
Tuesday June 13, 2017 3:00am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 682
Sometimes you have to play ugly (bunker & counter) in order to get results towards advancement. Was the game last night pretty....No. But it was effective considering the quick turn around between games.

I wasn't shocked by the 3-4-3 formation, but was concerned with some of the players. Bruce rolled the dice, and was successful in his selections (for the most part). I actually think it would have been more successful if he'd been able to use some other players (Fabian in Place of Beasley, Brooks in place of Ream) but I'm just being nit-picky.

I truly believe that our player pool is better than many give us credit for...and if things pan out during the GC should take another leap forward. I see the 2018 pool as follows:

Striker: Dempsey, Jozy, Wood, Morris, Agudelo, Zardes, Dwyer, Green
Wide Mid: Fabian, Pulisic, Nagbe, Arriola, Bedoya, Saief, Gooch,
CM: Lletget, Hyndman, Roldan,
CDM: Bradley, Acosta, Williams,
LB: Villafana, Garza, Lichaj
RB: Yedlin, Chandler, Lichaj
CB: Brooks, Cameron, Ream, Besler, Gonzalez, Birnbaum, Miazga, CCV, EPB
Keeper: Howard, Guzan, Horvath, Hamid, Bingham, Yarbrough, Gonzalez,

The next 12 months should be interesting to watch who steps up...who falls....and who Bruce selects If/When we qualify for the WC.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #338
Tuesday June 13, 2017 3:58am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 1,850
....so many flawed forwards.

Rey Regicide
Post #339
Tuesday June 13, 2017 12:33pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,740
Original post from 2tone

Considering how we started the HEX with two losses; I don't see why anyone would be that concerned about aesthetic play against Mexico in Azteca.

I am more confident that this team is capable of playing attractive soccer under Bruce. Nagbe and Pulisic as well Acosta will improve our possession play in midfield.

Right now I don't care how the USMNT play as long as they qualify.


I don't think we played that badly too.

Uruguay plays defensively.

It's just their Pulisic, Wood and Arriola dwarf ours by MILES. (Suarez, Cavani... )

I honestly feel that we lost points there. That's pretty boss. We used to go into Azteca expecting to lose. Now I'm not sure that we don't expect to get points from here on out.

Mexico got all points from our turf. We were undergoing internal turmoil. That result in November doesn't bother me at all at this point.

Know Nothing
Post #340
Tuesday June 13, 2017 3:19pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,062
Original post from MSantoine

People realize that a loss wouldn't have hurt while a win would have almost guaranteed qualification (assuming wins against Panama and T&T).

It takes 16 points to be safe (15 maybe). If we lost we still get to the magic number with 3 wins in 4 games. The draw still makes us really need 3 wins, or 2 wins and 2 draws. Not too much difference. A win would have been massive and the game plan should have been gamble for a win. Not sit back and hope Mexico doesn't play well.

A point is nice but that's as lucky a point you'll see. (Bradley doesn't score that goal if they play that game 99 more times)


Let me ask then...how would you have set the team up to win?

The fact that their goal came on the counter speaks volumes. We would all like to see an all flowing passing game but let's face it...we are not there yet (exhibit A: Costa Rica away). If we adopted an attacking posture we would have had to deal with even more counters which presumably would have led to more goals. Where we are in the standings goal difference may come into play.

It is also a misnomer IMO to say we did not try to win. We were set up to frustrate them and to keep them from playing the way they like to play. The more frustrated they get the more they press up the field. The further they press upfield the more susceptible they are to counters...and I would say Bradley scores that goal 27 times out of 100.

I will share the stat line from a Premier League game earlier this year where one team dominated possession but were frustrated by their opponents and ended up losing

http://www.espnfc.com/matchstats?gameId=450870

cudevil
Post #341
Tuesday June 13, 2017 5:20pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 458
Original post from Know Nothing

Let me ask then...how would you have set the team up to win?

The fact that their goal came on the counter speaks volumes. We would all like to see an all flowing passing game but let's face it...we are not there yet (exhibit A: Costa Rica away). If we adopted an attacking posture we would have had to deal with even more counters which presumably would have led to more goals. Where we are in the standings goal difference may come into play.

It is also a misnomer IMO to say we did not try to win. We were set up to frustrate them and to keep them from playing the way they like to play. The more frustrated they get the more they press up the field. The further they press upfield the more susceptible they are to counters...and I would say Bradley scores that goal 27 times out of 100.

I will share the stat line from a Premier League game earlier this year where one team dominated possession but were frustrated by their opponents and ended up losing

http://www.espnfc.com/matchstats?gameId=450870


Agree with most of this. I just didn't see a lot of danger from Mexico and it's arguable that we had the most dangerous chances, limited though they were. MSantoine is about the only person that I've seen who seems to believe that the draw wasn't deserved.

db707
Post #342
Tuesday June 13, 2017 5:43pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 395
Yeah, it wasn't a barrage of shots with Guzan standing on his head to save us either. We snuffed out a lot of potential chances. I don't even remember too many gilt-edged chances Mexico missed, besides hitting the bar. It was kind of like the 2002 World Cup second round game with Mexico, with us being on short rest, needing to play a style to frustrate them and counter when we could.

MSantoine
Post #343
Tuesday June 13, 2017 8:38pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,688
Original post from cudevil

Agree with most of this. I just didn't see a lot of danger from Mexico and it's arguable that we had the most dangerous chances, limited though they were. MSantoine is about the only person that I've seen who seems to believe that the draw wasn't deserved.


We scored a once a generation goal. They had 3-4 sitters they blasted over the bar when they already had Guzan beat. Also how many times did Cameron make a last second, last gasp clearance (6?7?8?)

In sports future performance is dictated on more than just results (goal differential, possession, shots for/against, chances created/against) are all good (not perfect) predictors of what to expect.

It was nice to get a point. But if you cant admit that US was lucky to get the point then you either didnt watch the game or dont understand how soccer is played

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #344
Tuesday June 13, 2017 8:52pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 1,850
Original post from cudevil

Agree with most of this. I just didn't see a lot of danger from Mexico and it's arguable that we had the most dangerous chances, limited though they were. MSantoine is about the only person that I've seen who seems to believe that the draw wasn't deserved.


We were lucky to draw. A few of Mexico's chances and half-chances were skied over the bar.
There are a lot of good takeaways from that game, and a few bad.

BMD15
Boston
Post #345
Tuesday June 13, 2017 8:58pm

Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts: 107
I believe someone earlier quoted expected goals at 0.8 for Mexico and 0.5 for the US - that speaks to more than just luck. It wasn't a perfect performance, but it was a well executed game plan. We (for the most part) shuttled Mexico into a lot of east-west movement/passes, held our shape and our lines pretty well, and looked to push Mexico into help whenever possible. Short rest, at altitude, in the toughest venue in CONCACAF and we held our own.

All credit to Mexico for their counterattack goal - Ochoa cut out like 6-7 US players with his outlet but aside from that and the free kick off the crossbar they weren't super dangerous.

If you want to talk luck, Mexico was lucky they weren't playing down a man 5 minutes into the match....otherwise it was a well deserved point.
NETID
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