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Rey Regicide
Post #1
Monday April 17, 2017 7:09pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,642
http://www.espnfc.us/united-states/story/3101...

"He said in 2014 that U.S. players like Clint Dempsey and Michael Bradley would have to prove their form hadn't dropped after leaving Europe to return to North America. In response, MLS commissioner Don Garber called Klinsmann's comments "detrimental" and "personally infuriating.""

Paulinho is actually SICK right now for Brazil.

It's not unreasonable to expect that he would dip in form by going to China.

Instead he's used his time there as a personal sand box to develop a passing game (heel flicks WTF!!!)

the same way.. Bradley should have done... hell even the same no. 10 position he's occupying...

Paulinho was asked questions about his form and he's smashed them. I don't feel that was unreasonable.

cleancutimage
Post #2
Monday April 17, 2017 7:16pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,147
Wow, I was just about to post the link to that article. I have made it well known I was a JK supporter, I was disappointed about his tactics(something Phillipe Lahm has been highly critical of) and his roster choices sometimes but his innovative mind and experience at the highest level is something we have never had as a manager.

I think he could have turned it around but I think Garber had a role in turning the MLS-based players against when in reality he is right. MLS is lagging behind Liga MX and Garber wants to think this is a top league, c'mon son. Saprissa has been to more Club World Cups than MLS has. What does Garber even know about soccer? He is a business guy. Similar to Kroenke and Arsenal. Thriving business wise but lacking on the field.

Rey Regicide
Post #3
Monday April 17, 2017 7:22pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,642
Original post from cleancutimage

Wow, I was just about to post the link to that article. I have made it well known I was a JK supporter, I was disappointed about his tactics(something Phillipe Lahm has been highly critical of) and his roster choices sometimes but his innovative mind and experience at the highest level is something we have never had as a manager.

I think he could have turned it around but I think Garber had a role in turning the MLS-based players against when in reality he is right. MLS is lagging behind Liga MX and Garber wants to think this is a top league, c'mon son. Saprissa has been to more Club World Cups than MLS has. What does Garber even know about soccer? He is a business guy. Similar to Kroenke and Arsenal. Thriving business wise but lacking on the field.


Everyone deserves fault, the problem is, the guy who pointed the finger at Garber got fired and there's noone left to point that finger. well it should be Gulati, but MLS is the federation. I don't think FA has that arrangement. The owners of the teams don't themselves hold hegemony over the FA.

Someone correct me please if I'm wrong.

* English FA.

cleancutimage
Post #4
Monday April 17, 2017 7:32pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,147
Original post from Rey Regicide

Everyone deserves fault, the problem is, the guy who pointed the finger at Garber got fired and there's noone left to point that finger. well it should be Gulati, but MLS is the federation. I don't think FA has that arrangement. The owners of the teams don't themselves hold hegemony over the FA.

Someone correct me please if I'm wrong.

* English FA.


I think you are spot on in your assessment and Gulati should have lost his job long ago.
US Soccer needs to distance itself from MLS as much as Garber needs to take the training wheels off MLS and let it ride gracefully or fall over. The first issue in my eyes is the salary cap, it isn't competitive any other place but MLS. If we want to compete with other leagues we either have to raise the salary cap significantly or get rid of it. The latter is unlikely and probably not practical especially with how soccer is a growing sport but not a sport where we can rely on a consistent fan-base showing up to the stadiums every match to support their club regardless of how well or poor they are doing. Certain clubs have that club and representing their city pride but a lot still lack that.

Dave
Post #5
Tuesday April 18, 2017 2:29am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 643
cleancutimage - I've got no love for Gulati or Garber. I think both have served their purpose and should have been dropped at this point. IMO there are a handful of things that MLS should be looking at in order to become more competitive now and for the future....
1) Roster Size: Team depth seems to continue to be an issue with MLS teams. We constantly hear about the difficulty of keeping players healthy due to travel & weather conditions. Adding additional roster spots would potentially help address this issue. Especially if the additional roster spots were filled by young/youth players (see #2 below).
2) Youth Players: While I hate to give the Mexican League any props there is one thing they do that I wish MLS did. Namely institute a rule forcing clubs to have a certain number of youth players (Under 23) on the roster, and force them to actually play them. 10 years ago the Mexican National teams weren't fairing well in international youth competitions, so the League forced teams to have young players and play them. Since then Mexico has steadily improved at all youth levels-and is now seeing improvement at the SR level too. Force clubs to invest in their Academies and develop players rather than just buying scraps from Europe.
3) Salary Cap: The cap needs to be increased and/or other DP salary waivers type clauses need to be added. Make homegrown a greater write off-.or add a US Youth International DP slot. I don't want to continue buying/importing players-.but find a way to get more of our quality young players to sign and playing for the league. I'm tired of seeing MLS paying for old, busted up players....while losing out on some quality young American players because we can't sign them for what their market value is.

cleancutimage
Post #6
Tuesday April 18, 2017 4:34am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,147
Original post from Dave

cleancutimage - I've got no love for Gulati or Garber. I think both have served their purpose and should have been dropped at this point. IMO there are a handful of things that MLS should be looking at in order to become more competitive now and for the future....
1) Roster Size: Team depth seems to continue to be an issue with MLS teams. We constantly hear about the difficulty of keeping players healthy due to travel & weather conditions. Adding additional roster spots would potentially help address this issue. Especially if the additional roster spots were filled by young/youth players (see #2 below).
2) Youth Players: While I hate to give the Mexican League any props there is one thing they do that I wish MLS did. Namely institute a rule forcing clubs to have a certain number of youth players (Under 23) on the roster, and force them to actually play them. 10 years ago the Mexican National teams weren't fairing well in international youth competitions, so the League forced teams to have young players and play them. Since then Mexico has steadily improved at all youth levels-and is now seeing improvement at the SR level too. Force clubs to invest in their Academies and develop players rather than just buying scraps from Europe.
3) Salary Cap: The cap needs to be increased and/or other DP salary waivers type clauses need to be added. Make homegrown a greater write off-.or add a US Youth International DP slot. I don't want to continue buying/importing players-.but find a way to get more of our quality young players to sign and playing for the league. I'm tired of seeing MLS paying for old, busted up players....while losing out on some quality young American players because we can't sign them for what their market value is.


I complete agree with all three points and think those are three of the major points we need to figure out asap.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #7
Tuesday April 18, 2017 10:11pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 1,506
It seems like our group consensus here is: to hell with them all.
Am I reading that right?
If so, I agree.

hamsamwich
Post #8
Wednesday April 19, 2017 12:31am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,413
Should've fired Gulati before he was allowed to hire Bruce Arena. That last game was so very unambitious- just like Gulatis choice in the first place. It seemed like everyone on this board had thrown out candidates that @dolcem said weren't good enough because they didn't have high level playing experience. And so we have what we have now... we all did more research than the economist Gulati, and the whole thing has been revealed for the insiders club it is. I think they are still giving ole bruce a honeymoon period. As for the future, I think grass roots wise we are doing fantastic but I'm not sure the higher ups have similar quality.

MSantoine
Post #9
Wednesday April 19, 2017 11:31am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,600
Regarding Gulati, Im not a huge fan but looking at him objectively its hard to say he hasnt had a positive influence. He took over in 2006 and this was the US Soccer landscape then"

MLS was struggling to stay a float. Just had several teams contract a few years earlier. Teams struggled to be competitive (DC United dynasty) and there was no world appeal to MLS as it was thought as a fad.

US Soccer was heading into a bad world cup with a stagnant coach (Arena part 1), an aging roster, and no type of academy system. Senior team was full of aging non-stars with just a handful of guys who could compete in top Euro leagues.

US Soccer landscape now:

MLS is a top 10 league in the world (Id say 8-10 range) and attracts Euro/South American guys in their prime (Giovinco) as well as national team stars. Euro guys see it as an actual option and look to bring MLS guys to their team (EPB, Najar, Shea, Agudelo, etc).

US Soccer is competitive and the roster from top down for the most part could compete in top euro leagues. Academies are everywhere and firm enough to close Bradenton Academy and top Euro teams try to bring over guys once they turn 18.

I would say Gulati did well the past decade but his challenge is the next decade. US Soccer can no longer be the grit and balls under dog. He needs to develop the national team into a Netherlands, France, England where they can have some expectation of winning every tournament they are in. Most people admit 2018 isnt realistic for this but most think 2022 and especially 2026 should see US compete with the top nations. The key should be if in 2-3 years we dont seem to be on track for that level then he should go. But its hard to argue we arent better off then when we started. His decision after World Cup on next coach (if its Arena he has to go) will be huge in showing whether he still knows how to lead US

spieg32
Post #10
Wednesday April 19, 2017 1:31pm

Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts: 12
Here is what people need to admit. The more US talent that stays in MLS is harmful for the development of the national team. Look at basketball. The international teams improved immensely during the 90's and 00's because their talent came to the NBA, or even the NCAA for that matter. American soccer talent needs to go play where competition, skill, and mindset is the best. That will translate to better players. We are trying to compete with the top teams in world, yet we have countless players playing in MLS, which is equivalent to basketball players playing in the Chinese league or Israel. Sure there are some good players, but the overall talent is not top notch, so players don't develop and reach their ceilings.

Know Nothing
Post #11
Wednesday April 19, 2017 3:37pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,008
Original post from spieg32

Here is what people need to admit. The more US talent that stays in MLS is harmful for the development of the national team. Look at basketball. The international teams improved immensely during the 90's and 00's because their talent came to the NBA, or even the NCAA for that matter. American soccer talent needs to go play where competition, skill, and mindset is the best. That will translate to better players. We are trying to compete with the top teams in world, yet we have countless players playing in MLS, which is equivalent to basketball players playing in the Chinese league or Israel. Sure there are some good players, but the overall talent is not top notch, so players don't develop and reach their ceilings.


I get what you are saying, but I don't think basketball is a good analogy. To play in the US they already had to be good players...it's not like they are coming over here to be trained in a teams youth system. They are getting better at Basketball because they concentrate on shooting the 3 and fundamentals while our players dream of thye next viral slam dunk.

I would have no problem with an all MLS team provided the players played cohesively. The issue is that there is no "American" way to play except perhaps to defend and counterattack. If we have as smattering of players playing in Germany, Spain, England, and Italy, they will be well trained, but also indoctrinated into different styles. The challenge for the coach is how to blend these different approaches into a cohesive unit. I don't think Arena is up to that.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #12
Wednesday April 19, 2017 8:40pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 1,506
There is no process to remove Gulati from office, like for instance if he does something like gives a pedigreed but insane person control over the top two jobs (each of which should be a full time job) and renews his contract too early even though the rest of the world doesn't have coaches on for two terms, for good reason.


I hate to be the harbinger of bad news, ladies and gentlemen, but Michael Orozco will start for the US men's national team in Jacksonville.
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