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blaise213
Post #61
Friday April 14, 2017 12:50am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,468
Michael Bradley = a white Colin Kaepernik

Used to be good, got paid, regressed, now is mediocre!

cudevil
Post #62
Friday April 14, 2017 2:28am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 548
Bradley owed the fans and his teammates absolutely dick. His job is to get paid when he can. Any arguments to the contrary are utterly ridiculous. It's easy to say Player A or Player B wouldn't have made the same decision when it was never presented to them.

Risk losing life changing money for the fans or teammates? Sure. Right.

hamsamwich
Post #63
Friday April 14, 2017 2:50am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,519
Bradley in fairness @dolcem was #1 pretty good at the World Cup when we got out of that tough group (an argument you've used to support other points, the WC "success" as it were), and #2 was asked in a bonehead move by Klinsmann to play underneath Dempsey. I agree he has regressed since then due to playing in the MLS, but the World Cup where we got good results and he played out of position isn't really the spot to bash him in. It's post WC, especially the 2015 gold cup and concacaf cup; and also recently in the qualifiers. Hopefully Bruce gives him some competition or the entitlement will continue.

bjelks
Post #64
Friday April 14, 2017 3:11am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 426
Wouldn't say he regressed, it's just that we have a better pool with the advancement of the U.S. development program and Klinsman's expansion of dual national recruitment and because of the competition of the pool he looks worse.

To be clear, he was never a champions league knockout round impact player like Jermaine Jones who just aged out.
goalsense
MSantoine
Post #65
Friday April 14, 2017 11:36am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Why cant people accept the fact that in soccer there are consequences for transferring that can knock you out (or in) to your national teams setup. It happens all the time. Some young German is going through their U19/U23 set up. He plays for a mid tier team (Shalke, Leverkeusen, Frankfort, etc). He is either starting to get national team call ups, or at least in the picture. Then he transfers to Dortmund/Munich/EPL, rides the pine, and is never heard from again. Or you have a guy who is starting to lose his place (Chicharito) and his national team stops calling him in every time and its up to that player to transfer to get playing time AND stay in form.

Every other country deals with this and most handle it correctly. USA is the only national team afraid to drop a starter due to poor form. The only time we drop guys is due to injury. Even when Jozy was sucking, and Jones, and Bradley, they were still called into every camp when healthy and usually started (except when Jurgen dropped Bradley when his play really sucked but he was first and only US manager with stones).

To many people (fans and US Soccer people) think people like Landon, Bradley, Dempsey, etc should play every game until they say they are done because they "earned it". Its not about earning it in national soccer. Theres a reason 100 caps used to be a big deal and now we are going to have like 10 guys get there in a 3 year period. We need to stop rewarding mediocrity and passivity and pick the guys who truly earn their spot.

Rey Regicide
Post #66
Friday April 14, 2017 12:18pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,973
Original post from dolcem

I didn't say wait until after the World Cup to sign the contract. I said sign the contract and have the transfer take place on July 1st. This happens all of the time. From a business standpoint, it equally would have made sense. It was a massive coup for Toronto to have gotten him, and they would have offered the same exact contract had the transfer not taken place until the 1st. My guess is that Bradley couldn't wait the 6 months for his new salary to start. He wanted the money then and there. Which I think is pretty lame considering he's a millionaire.

No, I'm not basing it off of star players. A manager wants to win. He'll pick the players that will help him best do that. Roma had injuries in the second half of the season (which was to be expected, given Garcia's style of play), and Bradley would have gotten plenty of minutes. Every season there are players that are outbound, either because their contracts are about to end or because they have been sold. Very often they continue playing. I don't know where you get this bit about them going to the reserves.

Gerrard was a #10 in a 4-5-1. Their system was designed so that he did not really have defensive responsibilities. That's because they needed him feeding balls into Torres and more importantly, he was that good. There are a few world class players at there that should not waste their energy defending, and you have to have the right system to accommodate them (and there's never room for more than one in a team). And this worked. Liverpool won a Champions League playing like this. Bradley sure as shit was never one of these guys, and we weren't really all that good in the 2010 World Cup, when he had the whole team built around him. He had nowhere near the talent to justify it.

When Gerrard had to play deeper, he wasn't as good, because it wasn't his position. Bradley has played as a #6, a #8, and a #10 throughout his career. I just don't see any similarity between the two at all.

No, they weren't the same. Bradley's natural position is the #8. Gerrard is a #10. He's a creative #10 at that. Functionally, they were not alike. Bradley did play as the #10 while at Herenveen and in the latter years of Klinsmann's tenure, but that doesn't warrant a Gerrard comparison.


totally respect your opinion, but Gerrard has never been acknowledged as a 10 ever, anywhere. Zidane respected him because he carried the workrate of a million men. Riquilme is a 10, you cannot slot Gerrard into Riquelme role and expect similar results. And I'm not talking about quality, I rate Rique higher than SG, i'm talking strictly functionality. You can slot Valdivia, or could have, into Villareal and they wouldn't have done as well, but they would have done worse with the same style. Slotting Gerrard into the 10 spot at Villarreal would have changed the style. Literally GErrard is called the lion in the middle of the park.

This isn't an attack on you, or your views, because I think you offer incredible insight, and more often than not we're sharing similar views, but I feel you're wrong on this one.

and yea Benetiz lined up GErrard as a second forward, and in the "10" spot, but he played that role the way MB should have played his. The way Freddy Guarin, played it in the 10 spot at Inter, the way Boateng played it at AC Milan. Defense to offense, energy, energy, energy. And thus, positional indiscipline.

Know Nothing
Post #67
Friday April 14, 2017 2:48pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,248
Bravo Rey

Know Nothing
Post #68
Friday April 14, 2017 3:14pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,248
Original post from dolcem

No, I'm not basing it off of star players. A manager wants to win. He'll pick the players that will help him best do that. Roma had injuries in the second half of the season (which was to be expected, given Garcia's style of play), and Bradley would have gotten plenty of minutes. Every season there are players that are outbound, either because their contracts are about to end or because they have been sold. Very often they continue playing. I don't know where you get this bit about them going to the reserves.


It is a huge assumption to say "would have gotten more minutes". It is possible, but the opposite was also possible. Might as well take the sure thing.

I believe I am allowed my own assumption. If Bradley had stayed and Roma knew he was leaving in June, it would have made sense for Roma to spend money during the January window to bring in his replacement if they did not have a suitable youth candidate. This player would then get Bradley's minutes.

Know Nothing
Post #69
Friday April 14, 2017 3:23pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,248
Original post from MSantoine

To many people (fans and US Soccer people) think people like Landon, Bradley, Dempsey, etc should play every game until they say they are done because they "earned it". Its not about earning it in national soccer. Theres a reason 100 caps used to be a big deal and now we are going to have like 10 guys get there in a 3 year period. We need to stop rewarding mediocrity and passivity and pick the guys who truly earn their spot.


Not exactly. If you picked a team of guys that earned their spot, you run the risk of having a disjointed group of 11 strangers unable to play together.

I will use David Ginola as an example. His form for Spurs surely dictated a place in the French team, but his talents did not mesh overall with the team design. On the flip side, you could say Emile Heskey was not among the best strikers in England, but when he played England fared well.

In the national scheme, you have to build around your star players or find an 11 that works well together.

dolcem
Post #70
Friday April 14, 2017 11:01pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,759
Original post from cudevil

Bradley owed the fans and his teammates absolutely dick. His job is to get paid when he can. Any arguments to the contrary are utterly ridiculous. It's easy to say Player A or Player B wouldn't have made the same decision when it was never presented to them.

Risk losing life changing money for the fans or teammates? Sure. Right.


He was already a millionaire. He could have had the transfer take place after the World Cup. He literally cared about nothing other than the money. My only point is that makes him more like Anelka than Brian McBride. People (the media especially) always treated him like he was the latter, but he's not. That's all I'm saying. And I wouldn't mind someone else given a chance to play in the middle of the park, someone who wants it more.

And I guess Totti was "ridiculous" then?

Original post from Rey Regicide

totally respect your opinion, but Gerrard has never been acknowledged as a 10 ever, anywhere. Zidane respected him because he carried the workrate of a million men. Riquilme is a 10, you cannot slot Gerrard into Riquelme role and expect similar results. And I'm not talking about quality, I rate Rique higher than SG, i'm talking strictly functionality. You can slot Valdivia, or could have, into Villareal and they wouldn't have done as well, but they would have done worse with the same style. Slotting Gerrard into the 10 spot at Villarreal would have changed the style. Literally GErrard is called the lion in the middle of the park.

This isn't an attack on you, or your views, because I think you offer incredible insight, and more often than not we're sharing similar views, but I feel you're wrong on this one.

and yea Benetiz lined up GErrard as a second forward, and in the "10" spot, but he played that role the way MB should have played his. The way Freddy Guarin, played it in the 10 spot at Inter, the way Boateng played it at AC Milan. Defense to offense, energy, energy, energy. And thus, positional indiscipline.


You're right, Gerrard and Riquelme are different players. But IMO, Riquelme was an Argentine #10, and Gerrard was an English #10. That's the difference. Bradley was not even an English #10 though, he's an English (style) #8. He can also play as a #6 or a #10, but he's not a commanding #10 like Gerrard. Just my opinion.

Original post from hamsamwich

Bradley in fairness @dolcem was #1 pretty good at the World Cup when we got out of that tough group (an argument you've used to support other points, the WC "success" as it were), and #2 was asked in a bonehead move by Klinsmann to play underneath Dempsey. I agree he has regressed since then due to playing in the MLS, but the World Cup where we got good results and he played out of position isn't really the spot to bash him in. It's post WC, especially the 2015 gold cup and concacaf cup; and also recently in the qualifiers. Hopefully Bruce gives him some competition or the entitlement will continue.


"Pretty good"? He was our worst field player other than maybe Wondo and Davis. He went from arguably our best to the worst. Right when he went to the MLS. How was he played out of position during the World Cup? He was a center mid, his position. And Bradley can easily play the #10. He set the record for American goals abroad playing as the #10. Regardless, his form dropped before that happened.

Original post from Know Nothing

It is a huge assumption to say "would have gotten more minutes". It is possible, but the opposite was also possible. Might as well take the sure thing.

I believe I am allowed my own assumption. If Bradley had stayed and Roma knew he was leaving in June, it would have made sense for Roma to spend money during the January window to bring in his replacement if they did not have a suitable youth candidate. This player would then get Bradley's minutes.


The "sure thing" meant taken months off from soccer, and then playing a few weeks for a new team, and underperforming MLS team. Staying in Europe and training with the best, with the probably of getting some minutes (he always did) would have been much better for his form. And it's obvious that I'm right because he blew at the World Cup.
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mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #71
Friday April 14, 2017 11:07pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,144
Dolcem, I will agree with you about almost all of this, but MB shouldn't be played with 1 or 2 in front of him. He is just not an AM and it's unfair to judge him as one.

joey11
Post #72
Friday April 14, 2017 11:27pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 270
Original post from 2tone

Haven't done one in awhile.

GK: Horvath, Steffen, Hamid, Yarbrough, Guzan, Howard

RB: Yedlin, Chandler, Lichaj, Zusi

LB: Villafana, Lichaj, Fabian, Beasley

RCB: Cameron, Gonzo, Miazga, Hedges

LCB: Brooks, Ream, Zimmerman, Besler

DM: Bradley, Jones, Acosta, McCarty

CM: Acosta, Hyndman, Jones, Kljestan

CAM: Pulisic, Hyndman, Kljestan, Feilhaber

RW: Nagbe, Lletget, Arriola, Gyau

LW: Fabian, Nagbe, Green, Manneh

Strikers: Deuce, Wood, Altidore, Morris, Agudelo, Dwyer, Zardes, Johannsson

I think other young players will come forward in the next year which will make the USMNT final 23 a very good headache for Bruce and co.

Should be interesting to see how the next year and half plays out.

I'd add CCV, Williams, Morales, Boyd, Green, Gideon Z to your list, I'm sure there is more.

Know Nothing
Post #73
Saturday April 15, 2017 12:15am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,248
I have a suggestion...we all pitch in to get Dolcem a new MB dartboard. It is obvious he has worn his current one out!

hamsamwich
Post #74
Saturday April 15, 2017 2:56am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,519
It's not obvious he was our worst field player at the World Cup. That's garbage and you are usually better than that. You can't ignore and invent a new reality just because you don't like someone. Don't play Bradley from now on if that's your choice that's cool. But if I recall correctly, when Jürgen was fired you kept pointing back to how successful a World Cup it was, how great of a job Jürgen did etc etc. and I agree with that. But you can't now all of a sudden misremember for the purpose of this argument. Bradley had a bad one minute against Portugal that's after a world class 90 minutes before that against a top side in Portugal. His pass to Julian Green at the end of the Belgium game was nice too. We're USA not Germany, I would argue the USA is devoid of players aside from Pulisic and Fabian that can hang mentally on the field and that Bradleys teammates too often let him down. The Gold Cup should be the time to break in new central midfielders but as it stands without injury he will be out there against T&T on June 8 here in beautiful Denver (beers if anyone makes it beside me and db707).

bjelks
Post #75
Saturday April 15, 2017 7:22am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 426
Can't give Klinsman any props for WC when he picked Wondo over LD, started Beckerman, and didn't bring a replacement for Jozy'.
goalsense
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