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MSantoine
Post #166
Thursday September 14, 2017 10:19pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
If toljan leaves the Germany setup he will join Croatia before USA. He will be able to start for Croatia as soon as he switches.

cudevil
Post #167
Thursday September 14, 2017 10:27pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 524
Original post from MSantoine

If toljan leaves the Germany setup he will join Croatia before USA. He will be able to start for Croatia as soon as he switches.


He couldn't start immediately at LB for the USNT?

skangles
DC
Post #168
Thursday September 14, 2017 11:33pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,270
If we qualify for the World Cup, our poor WCQ results means that it is highly probable that we would find ourselves in a group of death.

I don't have an issue with the new draw format but I do have an issue with annoucing it at the end of the WCQ cycle. It should have been announced at the beginning of the cycle.

http://sbisoccer.com/2017/09/fifa-organizing-...

admsghs27
Post #169
Friday September 15, 2017 6:01pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
We won the Hex last time and had the group of death. You need luck in the draw it doesn't matter what place we finish in. Mexico might get a tougher group than USA you just never know.

Jzaval01
Post #170
Friday September 15, 2017 8:26pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,244
If we end up getting say
Germany/Argentine/Belgium in pot 1
And
France/Colombia/Spain heck even England in pot 2

I would call in a young squad. Why? Well as Un American as it might be to conceed and obviously this group of players have me with 0 confidence, its pretty guranteed we wont make the next round. At best we would win 1 and loss 2. Anyways based on recent results this is as far this team goes. Would be a golden chance to expose the future players.

Rey Regicide
Post #171
Friday September 15, 2017 8:37pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,900
Original post from Jzaval01

If we end up getting say
Germany/Argentine/Belgium in pot 1
And
France/Colombia/Spain heck even England in pot 2

I would call in a young squad. Why? Well as Un American as it might be to conceed and obviously this group of players have me with 0 confidence, its pretty guranteed we wont make the next round. At best we would win 1 and loss 2. Anyways based on recent results this is as far this team goes. Would be a golden chance to expose the future players.


Group of death 2013 squad got exposure and hype to the kids. Yedlin, Trapp, Gil.. varying degrees of success but it eventually got them onto the MNT. And 3 is a great number to have.

There isn't going to a more senior team in a world cup though. The only benefit exposure would grant someone would be club interest.

Know Nothing
Post #172
Friday September 15, 2017 9:25pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,186
Why are we fearing getting England? They have never beaten us in the World Cup (I say this tongue in cheek).

At any rate, looks like good ole pragmatic counter-attacking soccer if we qualify...might as well practice three at the back.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #173
Friday September 15, 2017 11:27pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,144
Original post from Know Nothing
At any rate, looks like good ole pragmatic counter-attacking soccer if we qualify...might as well practice three at the back.


Yes to both of those. We will need to change styles and some personnel as soon as we qualify.
There is no shame in counter-attacking. It's a useful tool in so many games and sports with a strategic element to them.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #174
Friday September 29, 2017 12:14am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,144
Following up on that, here's armchair USMNT coach mmee's first draft plan to exit the group:
3 CB toolbox, with a few of the formations that go with that
(5-backs + 1 DM or tandem + 2F or 1 CF) = multiple combinations with a basis in 5-4-1 or 5-3-2

Top-down analysis: We are only exiting the group with disciplined counter-attacking and players who can draw fouls. It'll be a tactical test and a fitness test, but we have no choice. More exotic systems are worth the gamble when you're uphilling it to exit the group- the other team may not recognize our patterns of play on the counter.

a) we do not have the personnel for a FB and wing on each side, and then to pretend we can commit them both down the line against better teams than us. Instead, we 3, 4 and sometimes 5-man counterattack with flexibility and speed. We'd need a few different looks, but I think that Pulisic is AM in almost all of those looks.
b) 3 CB means putting one more CB on the field whose strong suits are emergency defending, 1v1 defending, defensive tactics, set pieces. 1 DM vs a tandem is a decision based partly on who has a good season here, but if it's 1 DM, I think it has to be Cameron, and then we have 4 people on the field with those strong suits. To put a name on it, that would probably be Brooks Besler Miazga with Cameron in front of them for me, but it might be breakoutCB-Brooks-Miazga. For a tandem, I'd move Cameron back to the CB/sw and dare the other team to give him some room and time down the middle to pick out a pass if they're occupying the tandem.
c) cede possession and wings for slowing their direct attack, and a chance of direct counters
d) We look to build a Plan B based on how CR's 2014 5-4-1/5-2-2-1 thingy worked against good teams
e) If you go up 1 goal, somehow, 1 sub or pulling Puli back to wide mid gets you to 5-4-1.
f) But in general, I would also think "they are going to swarm Puli, so they can do that on the spine of the field" because this usually yields more options then letting them swarm your best player out wide (where they can just about ignore the far side if we can't commit numbers forward).
g) If you need to score, depending on personnel, you might be able to go 3-4-3 or 3-1-4-2 or 3-4-1-2 on the fly, and bring in those fresh legs case by case; and even if you can't, 1 sub and you can switch to any of those that work for who we have.

Back in the day we did counterattack damage with Dempsey and Donovan in the midfield of a 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 because they could either hurt you wide or inward if you let them. I don't think we have that going on right now.

Of course there are downsides, but I don't think they even come close to the downsides of a 4-back system since we'd have to put CBs in those FB spots anyway to stay alive, so why not just give the WBs a bit more liberty than the FBs would have by making it 3 CBs?

The only 4-back system that I think we can run is an asymmetric one that's based on praying daily for Yedlin's health.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #175
Friday September 29, 2017 4:14am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,144
Also part of this is that I think our depth chart at CB for WC 2018 (i.e. looking ahead about 6 months) is deep, and here's how Coach mmee would rate it (but not how Arena will):

Safe Bets alphabet order
Matt Besler
John Brooks
Geoff Cameron
Matt Miazga

Challengers alphabet order
Cameron Carter-Vickers
Erik Palmer-Brown
Tim Ream
Jonathan Spector

Some Chance
Ike Opara
Walker Zimmerman

Tiny Chance
Ventura Alvarado
Steve Birnbaum
Matt Hedges

You are not going on mmee's team
Omar Gonzalez
Michael Orozco

DM
So I might have to take ~eight from the above list, because my DM pool might be limited to some combo of:
Cameron, Williams
Roldan, Acosta, EPB, Kitchen, McCarty
outsiders: Trapp, Spector
. . . which mean I'd have to go deeper into the CB list if the quality is there.
(Bedoya, Bradley, Lletget, McKennie and Nagbe don't tackle well enough for me to consider them as DM or tandem DM. They either go or don't go based on other positions)

LWB depth order
Fabian Johnson (attitude permitting)
Eric Lichaj
Jorge Villafaña
after this we get into prayer territory, but it could include a few great friendlies and season for Danny Acosta or Justin Morrow or Chris Tierney

RWB depth order
Deandre Yedlin
Fabian Johnson (attitude permitting)
?Paul Arriola
Eric Lichaj
Acosta?
?Kelyn Rowe

In front of the back 5+1 or 5+2:

CM/#8/shuttler/wide mid alphabet order
K. Acosta
Arriola
Bradley
Kljestan
Lletget
McKennie
Nagbe
Polster
Rowe

up top
AM depth order
Pulisic
Gooch / Saief let the experiments begin
Nguyen
Dempsey
Agudelo
Feilhaber

F, withdrawn F or wing F
Altidore
Dempsey
Gooch
Morris
Wood
Outsiders:
Bruin, Dwyer, Finlay, Lennon, Manneh, Sapong, Ramirez

GK: I don't think that Howard is worth the health gamble to use a roster spot on.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #176
Friday September 29, 2017 4:53am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,144
But now that I think about it, I think I'd try an XI that could counter viciously, so I think it'd have a 5-3-1-1 shape and you'd have to gamble on your 2 shuttlers being guys who have speed carrying the ball as a key weapon: Arriola, Gooch, Rowe, Saief, Pulisic, with maybe Acosta or Morris or others fitting into that mix, and wheels up top like Wood or Morris.
...and your safe and sound guys like Bradley or Nagbe can come on if you have the lead.

Your bench is 1 CB, 1 DM, 1 WB, 1 CM, 1 utility attacker, 1 F, and 1 GK.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #177
Sunday October 1, 2017 12:34am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,144
Today it looks like NYRB are trying to beat Toronto with my favored formation for the US to use in WC 2018, that 5-3-1-1/3-5-1-1 type of thing, and Tyler Adams is playing RWB.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #178
Sunday October 1, 2017 1:52am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,144
Adams with some LWB, too.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #179
Sunday October 1, 2017 1:59am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,144
...and Morrow at LWB for TFC with 3 goals today.

hamsamwich
Post #180
Sunday October 1, 2017 7:09pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,509
I feel like the depth chart is inverted currently with more talented players behind the older established guard. Prince Bradley is a case in point. Who wouldn't want to see a McKennie-Gonzalez pairing in November if we qualify this week? It would add to the "depth" on the chart. I feel like Bruce has his guys and the chart stops after that. Sargent should also be on the forward list for Bruce but he missed his chance to integrate the kid.

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