RECAPS
EXTRA TIME
YA POLL
Which player scored the most impressive goal over the weekend?
Josh Sargent (Werder Bremen)
Haji Wright (SonderjyskE)
Giovanni Reyna (Borussia Dortmund)
Tyler Boyd (Besiktas)
Julian Green (Greuther Furth)
Nicholas Gioacchini (Caen)
YANKS ABROAD LOCKER ROOM
 
db707
Post #46
Thursday June 1, 2017 10:48pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,076
Original post from mmee

I think for your hypothetical argument about the GC roster and what it might get you for 2018, you want to compare Sargent with Sapong, no?

Also, Hamid crapped the bed the other day.


Or, if you take 2tone's forward list, which I like, have Sargent there for the group stage, get a good look at the four forwards not currently in camp in those matches, and bring Morris back to replace him for the knockout rounds. We can replace up to six players if we reach the quarterfinals, so in essence we have 29 spots to work with. My argument is simply why not take advantage of that to invest in a player we think has some long-term potential. It's a beyond 2018 play, which most managers don't get the luxury of doing, but the Gold Cup squad rules make it easier for Arena to do it.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #47
Thursday June 1, 2017 11:19pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
Yeah, I agree with the long-term development strategy for the GC players.
But I am also mentioning someone like Sapong because I don't think you automatically want to rule out a Sapong for a Sargent, 12 months before a WC - not every time, you don't. It's case by case. That's why I think it makes for good BBS bs.

I would say, for the sake of conversation, that IF it did come down precisely to Sargent vs Sapong for the last WC forward spot , THEN it's Sapong's spot, unless Sargent takes it from him. I'd sooner take the physically stronger, far more experienced guy who might be having a career peak than a long-term higher-ceiling guy.
WC isn't for developing players, even if GC is.

SO, in order to work toward that decision, I'd want to see both at the GC, and leave Morris home along with Jozy, Dempsey (and Wood, obviously).

Maybe others of you just think that Sapong is out. (I am not claiming to know much about him)

Dave
Post #48
Friday June 2, 2017 3:01am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 1,090
Original post from skangles

On the topic of giving a young player experience, how about Josh Sargent? He doesn't have a club and won't turn 18 until February when he can sign in Germany. That in itself doesn't warrant a national team call up but he's looked darn good with the U20s and U17s.

I'm not necessarily advocating that he play much but I think giving him a few weeks with Bruce and the National Team set up would be a wise long term investment.

Any way I hope that the Gold Cup will finally be Hamid's International Break Out party.


@skangles - Since Sargent isn't yet signed with a professional team (European or otherwise) it would be very beneficial for him to at leased be called in for the Gold Cup. I'm not advocating that he be given a roster spot, but he could participate in the training. A month of training with the Sr. National team would give him a good taste of where he's at and what he needs to work on. Even if it's just a "B" squad since Arena has said he's not going to be using many of the European players or players who were part of the U-20 WC.

skangles
DC
Post #49
Friday June 2, 2017 4:17am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,448
I definitely agree Dave. I really can't see the downside, even if as you mentioned he isn't officially part of the team.

MSantoine
Post #50
Friday June 2, 2017 11:14am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
I think it will likely depend if hes actually signed with Werder Bremen already or not. There are conflicting reports. If he hasnt signed he may spend the summer trialing with big clubs (he can practice, just cant be signed until 18). That should be the biggest deciding factor as I'd rather him train with Shalke/Leverkuesen/Munich/Dortmund, and earn a contract as opposed to train with national team for 2 weeks

Rey Regicide
Post #51
Friday June 2, 2017 12:50pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
I like db707 and mmee thoughts on this.

It's definitely a philosophical debate.

Here's a question to you db, if you say the GC is solely for the purpose of long term strategy.

Wouldn't that spot be better suited for slowly transitioning someone like Sapong to the second position on the forwards list (maybe not Sapong, maybe getting Agudelo the lead role, or Morris) instead of affording a spot to Sargent. Who's not even a pro yet?

db707
Post #52
Friday June 2, 2017 1:41pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,076
Rey, I wouldn't say solely for long term strategy, I just am loathe to see this Gold Cup roster be solely about finding guys in the short term (for 2018) and having some of those guys be so far down the depth chart that they're really not going to have a hope of helping the team in Russia. MSantoine is right, if Sargent can be with a big club and train there, that's a major factor. I was assuming Sargent would be available and McKennie would be with Schalke. So using 2tone's list it would really be Sargent for McKennie, Morris sitting out the group stage and replacing Sargent for the knockout round (2tone listed 24 and I believe the active roster limit is 23). I'd still take and play Sapong in this scenario (and Agudelo, Dwyer and Ramirez). It's a little bold, yes, but the squad rules and relatively weak competition enable us to take chances like this. Heck, for the 40 man provisional roster, given that they can only actually use 29, you can get creative about how you use some of the extra 11 spots too, maybe for a couple name a young player or a dual national just to reinforce to that player that he is on your radar.

hamsamwich
Post #53
Friday June 2, 2017 3:16pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,388
Bruce has said he's not using any european based players in the Gold Cup- i.e. Miazga, Chandler, Williams.... so we are basically talking about the American players here. So that is Sapong and those type guys. And there are plenty to give more of a role to- Acosta, Dax, Hedges, etc. It would stink to just see Bruce go with the same old guys, but he may.

In regards to Sargent- he physically dominated u17, is just fine playing against the older and bigger u20, but can he compete with all grown men yet? That's what I would want to see as in a years time we might want to bring him with to Russia, a la Donovan back in the day. So before World Cup qualifiers or games can be talked about, let him practice with the full team and see what he's got.

Know Nothing
Post #54
Friday June 2, 2017 3:38pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,796
I don't think adding Sargent is a good idea. Let him enjoy his successes and build on them. He can also benefit from pre-season training with whatever club signs him. if need be, we can integrate him in January.

He is like Pulisic in talent but his situation is different. We had a clear need in the position Pulisic plays for us...whereas Woods and Jozy are certainly in Sargents way.

Rey Regicide
Post #55
Friday June 2, 2017 4:07pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
Original post from hamsamwich

Bruce has said he's not using any European based players in the Gold Cup- i.e. Miazga, Chandler, Williams.... so we are basically talking about the American players here. So that is Sapong and those type guys. And there are plenty to give more of a role to- Acosta, Dax, Hedges, etc. It would stink to just see Bruce go with the same old guys, but he may.

In regards to Sargent- he physically dominated u17, is just fine playing against the older and bigger u20, but can he compete with all grown men yet? That's what I would want to see as in a years time we might want to bring him with to Russia, a la Donovan back in the day. So before World Cup qualifiers or games can be talked about, let him practice with the full team and see what he's got.


That question about hanging with or against men should be answered the way it was with Pulisic.

CP22 went up against Sokratis Hummels (when he was there) in practice, then against the rest of the Bundesliga and performed exceptionally well. All before 18. After that, there literally was NO question as to whether that kid could hang with our squad. All of those questioning his involvement were unwarranted.

Unfortunately Sargent won't get that =(. That's why it's so debilitating this under 18 thing. So it would take a leap of faith from Bruce. And it would totally be understandable not to take him. Just too unproven, you're basing it on speculation and projection. I don't know how Sargent would do. I'm hoping he would get craftier.

Rey Regicide
Post #56
Friday June 2, 2017 4:10pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
And to know nothing, if we had a solid winger, say someone like an eddie lewis, or even a jozy altidore equivalent playing there.

someone who went to europe, had decent success, but nothing spectacular. came back and was one of the best mls talents.

You don't think he would be replaceable for someone who's breaking into a Bundesliga team at the age of 18?

Certaintly not a Wood equivalent, because he's on par essentially. He's going at the same level of talent. You would have to base it on who's performing better, no?

Know Nothing
Post #57
Friday June 2, 2017 4:40pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,796
Original post from Rey Regicide

And to know nothing, if we had a solid winger, say someone like an eddie lewis, or even a jozy altidore equivalent playing there.

someone who went to europe, had decent success, but nothing spectacular. came back and was one of the best mls talents.

You don't think he would be replaceable for someone who's breaking into a Bundesliga team at the age of 18?

Certaintly not a Wood equivalent, because he's on par essentially. He's going at the same level of talent. You would have to base it on who's performing better, no?


Yeah, pretty much my point with Pulisic...he got his chance because we were weak on the wing and he took his chance well, thus making the position his.

If we were to call up Sargent and he were to do well...do you still play him ahead of Wood or Altidore? for me, no...too much at stake. There is no doubt about Sargent's talent, but it is unproven. He is in a rich vein of form right now but we have seen too many prospects get too much success too early and plateau too early (see Julian Green). My point is let's let him build on this recent success and get to the next level as a professional before we call him to the full USMNT.

MSantoine
Post #58
Friday June 2, 2017 5:09pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from db707

Rey, I wouldn't say solely for long term strategy, I just am loathe to see this Gold Cup roster be solely about finding guys in the short term (for 2018) and having some of those guys be so far down the depth chart that they're really not going to have a hope of helping the team in Russia.


Cant agree more. Nothings worse than one guys like Alan Gordon, Tony Beltran, etc are brought in. You know they have a 0.0% chance of helping et to, or contribute at a world cup (because if they are in their we're in trouble). The roster should be best XI-15 that help you win. Then after that it should be about upside. Especially where you can swap 6 guys out. Let spots 16-21 (22 & 23 are GK) be young guys who only play if we are either up big, or already clinch with a game to play. Then if you want to swap some/all out for vets (again these would be vets 16-21, not guys who'd come in and start). It seems like a no brainer best of both worlds, especially since you know Mexico will have a weak squad due to confed cup.

dolcem
Post #59
Friday June 2, 2017 6:59pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from MSantoine

Cant agree more. Nothings worse than one guys like Alan Gordon, Tony Beltran, etc are brought in. You know they have a 0.0% chance of helping et to, or contribute at a world cup (because if they are in their we're in trouble). The roster should be best XI-15 that help you win. Then after that it should be about upside. Especially where you can swap 6 guys out. Let spots 16-21 (22 & 23 are GK) be young guys who only play if we are either up big, or already clinch with a game to play. Then if you want to swap some/all out for vets (again these would be vets 16-21, not guys who'd come in and start). It seems like a no brainer best of both worlds, especially since you know Mexico will have a weak squad due to confed cup.


I disagree. While it's good to bring in a couple young guys, it's not good for team chemistry to just overload the roster with youth just because they're young. The most important thing for maintaining the best possible team spirit is making sure that hard work and a good attitude is what gets you onto the squad, not talent alone. Bringing in young players is the exact opposite.

I want my bench players who work their asses off in training and give off the right vibes (and there's plenty of psychological evidence to back this up). Watching Nick Rimando celebrate goals reminds me why Klinsmann would pick him as the 3rd keeper. Of course he never was going to play, but his dedication and love for the game is contagious. Might as well have a bench full if guys with that attitude as it'll rub off on the starters too. Picking a bunch of arrogant kids just because they're talented for their age is a horrible way to run a locker room.

This whole idea that the national team is for player development is completely off-base. The national team meets for a couple weeks a year. It will have very little impact on the trajectory of these kids' development. The national team's performance should never be sacrificed for their sake.
GET A CLUB TEAM
db707
Post #60
Friday June 2, 2017 7:25pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,076
dolcem, you lost me by assuming the kids who would be picked in this hypothetical have attitude problems just because they're young. Attitude, experience and spirit in camp are important, I agree. One of the reasons I defended DMB's inclusion in the current 27. But no one is talking about picking a young player with known attitude problems. The argument is a promising, sufficiently mature younger player v. a more experienced but fringe player whose ceiling and ability to contribute to the national team is already known. It's gaining a tangential benefit of player advancement through national team presence when other factors are roughly equal. The national team is not for player development, but it's also not a participation trophy or lifetime achievement award.

Page 4 of 19
« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10  Next » Last »»

Jesse Marsch has claimed a personal accolade as he's been named Coach of the Year in Austria.
RECENT POSTS
American Trio Wins 3. Liga Title
Konrad Commits To Barcelona
Matarazzo, Stuttgart Eye Promotion
EPB Returns To Action In Austria