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TheTruth
Post #31
Sunday December 4, 2016 10:01pm

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 954
Dude, the goal is to qualify for the WC. There's no tomorrow. Of course he's slightly less likely to give kids some time over the next 8 games then he otherwise would. Deal with it.

The oldest field player on our WC 2006 team was 33 - Brian McBride. No one in their right mind would argue that McBride wasn't in our best 11. '06 wasn't about sticking w/ old guys. We got knocked down in the 1st round by Czech. The whole point of veterans are that they're safe. And yet. . . The Italy game was one of the great USMNT games of all time. And you can't recover from a game w/ red cards in a tournament - you're just too tired.

And all 3 of those LA guys were bench warmers. Brought in for depth.
Gordo is the best 75 minute sub in the history of the league. He got a couple of USMNT call ups this year. Anyway, yes, it was agonizing to see Gordo start the last few games - he's just not good enough. And yes Laurentowicz played at the end too because of the injuries.

Could you imagine what would have happened if Bruce didn't bring in those guys? I mean Lando game out of a 2 yr retirement our injuries were so bad. Why don't you blame Bruce for that too - "sticking with an old guy. . ."

"A team needs to have a balance of youth and veteran experience?" What kind of mindless pundit horsehit is that? It's a waste of you time to type that sentence. And a waste of my time to read it. And a waste of my time to type these several sentences responding to it. Fuck, why am wasting my goddamn time. I should be rearranging my sock drawer. What if you have a Golden Generation all 30 years old? Nothing wrong with mostly vets. What if you had Germany in 06 - nothing wrong with mostly youth.

hamsamwich
Post #32
Monday December 5, 2016 3:52am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,697
The hire of Arena says to me that Gulati is/was out of ideas. Bruce himself is a fine choice, but it's a bit ridiculous to give the job back to the guy after he already coached the team. There were and are plenty of other candidates. Seemed the fix was in and this was done to please the old boy network of us soccer community. The team will be fine and qualify, but I echo @Daves worry about the stagnation of the team. And so if he stinks, do we bring back Bob?? Or Jürgen?

Sunil Gulati did his job like a kid copying his friends homework outside the school 5 minutes before class starts. Very poor and amateurish from an economist who needs to go.

munns5986
Post #33
Monday December 5, 2016 4:23am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 282
The Truth I really hope you weren't one of the ones telling people to quit sucking the JK teet because you are pretty firmly attached the Bruce Arena one. I am ok with Arena hire as long as it is just to get through this World Cup. The problem is we are coming up on the easiest part of the hex and people are going to praise him for winning when we should be able to without a coach on the sideline.

This isn't me still wishing JK as coach. A change needed to be made. The part I struggle with is hiring someone to do a job when they were fired for failing to do the job previously.

TheTruth
Post #34
Monday December 5, 2016 6:25am

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 954
Arena is a great coach. That shouldn't be controversial point. Just evaluate the results over the last 30 years. This is how you judge a coach - doing it a bunch of different ways at a bunch of different levels.

If he doesn't qualify, sure, then that brings him a notch down.

My mouth was always on Lando's dick. Now it's on Pulisic's. I like Arena, but not quite enough to be blowing him.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #35
Monday December 5, 2016 8:59am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
Original post from hamsamwich
Or Jürgen?
Wut.

hamsamwich
Post #36
Monday December 5, 2016 1:15pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,697
Original post from mmee

Wut.
Rewind 10 years, Arena wasn't good enough. Gulati said so. Now he's changed his mind again.

Rey Regicide
Post #37
Monday December 5, 2016 2:43pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
I think ultimately it comes down to the players... our players now, current starting outside of Pulisic are a little better than any other world cup teams.. I mean it just is... sorry, Fabian Johnson, Brooks, yes even Chandler, Jones the 2013 Bradley, the in form Altidore all these guys were better than any other iteration, our record breaking year was due to the fact that they were ALL clicking on at the same times. the ghost of Besler was better than Berhalter, demerit, everyone aside from all time gooch, bocanegra, and eddie pope..maybe balboa, no not lalas.. and that's it...

And even then, I'm not sure that Besler wasn't better than those guys.. the unfortuante thing was his apex wasn't as long as those guys mentioned. Again, college messing up our players, Besler should have been on our team iwht his experience at 22, not 25 26 so that at 28 we're already talking about replacing him.

And that's all lthis amounts to, if we get Perez playing consistently for Fiorentina in acoupl years, if Zelalem breaks through SOMEWHERE and exhibits and exerts his game definitively, same with Hyndman, if Pulisic becomes the first american 54 million dollar player.. just on that statement ALONE, Brooks becomes the first 30 million dollar defender.. we will literally have our greatest squad ever. And if Arena is coaching it, I have no doubts he can get the job done. I honestly feel Klinsmann with all his tinkery, would have been alright, too.

I worry less about the manager, more so about the talent not coming through, and having to play Jones and Bradley at their advanced age and drop in form because they are still comparably better than other MLS options. If they're slightly worse than other players they're still more apt to be called in training or beat out the feilhabers, nguyen's, nagbe's because they're familiar with the setup.

munns5986
Post #38
Monday December 5, 2016 3:05pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 282
Original post from TheTruth

Arena is a great coach. That shouldn't be controversial point. Just evaluate the results over the last 30 years. This is how you judge a coach - doing it a bunch of different ways at a bunch of different levels.

If he doesn't qualify, sure, then that brings him a notch down.

My mouth was always on Lando's dick. Now it's on Pulisic's. I like Arena, but not quite enough to be blowing him.


Arena is a good coach. I love soccer but my first love has always been American football. Nick Saban is probably the best college football coach there has ever been. He still got it handed to him when he went to the NFL to coach. Just because he is a great MLS coach doesn't mean he is what is best for USMNT. I also hope I am completely wrong and he takes the team to even higher achievements and really puts the US on the map. I just don't see it.

Like I said previously, Bruce is a good stop gap to get us to the next cycle. The problem is I see 2 potential scenarios playing out and they are both beneficial to Arena. 1st he qualifies us through the remainder of our easy qualifying schedule and he will get all the praise for turning the team around and an extension. 2nd we bomb in qualifying but everyone is going to blame JK and Arena will get an extension to get us on the path for the next cycle.

Rey Regicide
Post #39
Monday December 5, 2016 3:07pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
I was wondering if this was the right place to put this.. it is in fact Arena 2.0

Arena sees Bradley as a 6, which according to my translator means CDM... so... yea.. Is Bradley going to be better defensively under Arena? Or are we going to play with two 6's?

snipes87
Cleveland, Ohio
Post #40
Monday December 5, 2016 5:55pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 894
What are people going to do when Arena doesn't call up their guys? Ie Benny B, or this Villafana guy? They won't have Jurgs to blame anymore.
If you don't love it, leave it, USA #1
Rey Regicide
Post #41
Monday December 5, 2016 8:29pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
I think he said he will be calling them.

The thing is JK made the media uncomfortable, and they waited until they had a chance to lay it on him. JK didn't do himself any favors.

The truth is, as always, everyone had a hand in crapping the bed, from SUM pushing to get USA players back to the US after the golden year of 2013, to the players accepting the golden fruit in order to be more comfortable, to which people here rightfully stated, so what, that's the point in life, to live comfortably playing your trade. Everyone would have done it.

It all amounted to this.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #42
Monday December 5, 2016 11:03pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
So, Ham, we just fired JK. Are you saying that because Gulati re-hired Arena . . . . that . . . . . what? What are you saying?

Are you saying Gulati out? I agree.
Are you saying 2006 Arena = 2016 Arena? Not true.
Are you saying rehiring a nat'l team coach is a mistake 100% of the time, or just usually a mistake? I'd say nothing is true 100% of the time.
Are you saying that Klinsmann will get rid of his flaws and we should re-hired him in 2026? I would not bet on that if you gave me 10 to 1 odds.

How can Arena be a fine choice, but it's also a bit ridiculous to rehire him? Because Gulati did it? Gulati and US Soccer worked themselves into this position. That is the mistake. Arena is a 1.5 year solution, and just about the only one we had, unless you think we had a foreign solution. Bielsa has massive downside risk, and doesn't know the player pool.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #43
Monday December 5, 2016 11:12pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
Original post from Rey Regicide
I worry less about the manager, more so about the talent not coming through, and having to play Jones and Bradley at their advanced age and drop in form because they are still comparably better than other MLS options. If they're slightly worse than other players they're still more apt to be called in training or beat out the feilhabers, nguyen's, nagbe's because they're familiar with the setup.


JJ and MB are not a good tandem, (and JJ's wheels are about to fall off, and MB is inconsistent at USNT level). The idea that you'd rather have them linking to the forwards than Nagbe, Kljestan or Feilhaber has me doubting your sanity or your understanding.

Also, Arena has said he's going to change this. So, if they don't make a good #6 tandem or a good #8 tandem, and neither can hack it out wide, they shouldn't be on the field together very much going forward, and I am fine with that. JJ is old for a midfielder.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #44
Monday December 5, 2016 11:14pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
Original post from snipes87

They won't have Jurgs to blame anymore.


You mean because Jurgs arrogantly shit the bed repeatedly and got fired?

dolcem
Post #45
Monday December 5, 2016 11:59pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from TheTruth

Arena is a great coach.


Arsene Wenger is a great coach. Pep Guardiola is a great coach. Jurgen Klopp is a great coach. Arena may be a great MLS coach, but there are dozens, if not hundreds, of managers, that are "better" than he is (subjective, I know, but using the term for simplicity). If we're going to call him a "great" coach, than we should call ˇeljko Obradović a great coach, too. Coach Bob is probably just as good as any American manager we've ever had and he already looks out of his depth in the Premier League. It's not their fault; they're as good as anyone could expect them to be, but it's impossible to be an elite manager at a sport that was barely played in your country and hardly ever broadcasted on TV.

We had some great results in '02 but by '06 it was clear we had outgrown MLS coaching. The team had absolutely no identity, no clue how to play. When we needed a goal against Ghana we had no idea how to create one. There was absolutely no creativity or protagonism in the final third. The only way we knew how to score goals against halfway decent opposition (and this continued through the Coach Bob years) was by catching them off guard on counter-attacks and set pieces. In 2013, for the first time in our history, we actually broke free from this mold and played some positive soccer at times, but I digress.

Point is that Arena is not a top-tier coach and he shouldn't be anywhere near our national team program. We expect our players to prove themselves in the top leagues if they want to play the national team, and it should be the same for the manager. If we want to win we have to spend money on an elite manager, just as it is in any sport. It's simple as that.
GET A CLUB TEAM
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