RECAPS
EXTRA TIME
YANKS ABROAD LOCKER ROOM
 
Rey Regicide
Post #46
Friday October 7, 2016 6:12pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,768
Um

Is there anything with regards to fact that he's saying that this is an example of this never happening before? Not whether or not Bradley is worthy of merit. John Candy was from the USA.. they do bob sled

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Siler

What Dolcem is saying is that Jamaican bobsled team would have to have gotten there, W/O Siler.

Ham, do you understand that your point rests on the assumption that the USA was like every other soccer country in the world, with regards to the knowledge base, the exposure to talent, to exposure to people who are regarded in the soccer world, in 1980 - 1998 before he got onto the Chicago Fire.

Are you saying that is true?

The training regimens, were just like any other country who was doing it big, Germany, France, Italy, etc

The coaching networks were like any of those countries...

It's crazy what Bob has done because, in truth, no one's ever done this. It's a good thing. A great thing.

There have been plenty of people who've never played the sport, they've either had to be of a country, within a system, that had a well established soccer base, OR, been under the tutelage of someone who had more knowledge or know how than he did.

Bradley had NEITHER, and he's gotten to the "best league on the planet. "

Warburton, great example, he was in the youth system at Leicester. And while it might be a good argument, the proximity to England, and given the fervor of soccer in that country, they watch soccer all the time in the premier league, it's literally right next door to England.

The argument is a fallacy for someone now, lik a Kries, or a Porter, because they have, among other things TV coverage, internet etc,

Rey Regicide
Post #47
Friday October 7, 2016 6:14pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,768
And more importantly, and rather bemusingly, us, random people who are not important talking up the sport... having kids, who will grow crazy about it

.. turning it into a soccer culture... That wasn't there for Bob during his formative years. That's all.

coverby
Post #48
Friday October 7, 2016 10:55pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 481
Did anyone see these comments by Bradley about JK:

http://sbisoccer.com/2016/10/bob-bradley-crit...

"From the day I got fired by the U.S., I have not said one thing publicly about their team, alright? I don't appreciate the way it was done. I think they made a mistake," Bradley told the gathered media, "I'm glad that Jurgen says some nice things now. When he did commentary on the 2010 World Cup, he was already jockeying for the job. So I've shut my mouth, and continued to support the team, because I, of course, want to see the team do well. Michael's the captain. So if he has said something in a nice way, I appreciate it. And if at some point he chooses to try to work again outside the U.S., I wish him the best."

I've never heard Bradley speak that much about anything.

TheTruth
Post #49
Saturday October 8, 2016 12:18am

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 950
Yeah, surprising. Bob clearly cracking under the intense scrutiny of the EPL. I'll give him 2 months.

TheTruth
Post #50
Saturday October 8, 2016 12:19am

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 950
Yes, that's a joke.

hamsamwich
Post #51
Saturday October 8, 2016 1:22am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,468
Well the English media will ask questions that out of deference to Jürgen, Bradley and the USSF- the media here don't ask. Maybe we didn't want to know? But Bradley has rebuilt himself better than ever after his humbling by Gulati and Co.

dolcem
Post #52
Saturday October 8, 2016 2:15pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,712
Original post from 2tone

What straw man? You specifically asked what notable managers In world football weren't high
Level players. I provided you names. That pretty much shut down your argument. You never stated they had to be current managers.

To be a top level manager in any sport you do not have to have played at the highest level. That is what I stated. Producing even one name defeats your argument. That in science circles is called disproving a theory. And then I backed it up with more data I.e. Producing more names. You're theory has thus been disproved.


As I said before, 99% of managers played top-flight football (first or second division). Your list to counter that only had two managers that did not. Two. Out of dozens (over a hundred if you include leagues like Portugal and Holland). You had to choose three managers that aren't even active anymore, including someone who hasn't coached in decades. And as I said before, the only exceptions to this 99% are people that were at least in close contact with the game and grew up in a culture where they regularly talked about the game with other people and watched top-flight professional matches live.

Coach Bob had none of this. That is why if he is a success, it will have been completely unprecedented, for the same reason it'd be a huge deal of a Korean manager who only played in the K-League ended up in charge of a Premier League club.

I don't have any "theory" that you have "disproved." I have made the simple observation that no one with a background like Coach Bob's has ever managed a top-flight club in the European game. Heck, there are very few managers that have even made it from second-tier European leagues into the first-tier, and they had all of the advantages I just spoke of that Bob never had.

Original post from hamsamwich

@dolcem- I'm sorry but that's just an outdated thought process. "This is what we usually do so let's keep on doing that" is what I'm getting from you. Basically people have cited examples from every sport (let's not forget the legendary John Candy in the movie Cool Runnings) that prove you didn't have to be a "top flight player". What of the newer crowd like Warburton at Rangers formerly at Brentford. Guy was some sort of stock broker, but his teams play exciting football with "modern" tactics. As for coach Bob, your point would've had merit if talking about the inexperienced, 1996 version of Bob Bradley twenty years ago. These days he has plenty of managerial experience, which is quite different than what you are using for reference point, playing experience. If nobody knows what they are doing or talking about here in America, why are we commenting on a forum? In a way, your whole, "we do X here in Argentina, so it's great" viewpoint which is a theme of your posts only serves to perpetuate the same exclusionary practice that created an old boys network that allows for ex players in the "top leagues" to have a monopoly over the managerial jobs.

One only has to look at the most popular league, the EPL, for a look at what outside perspectives can do. The most successful of the common era was the Scotsman from Aberdeen, and later the Frenchman from the Japanese league. Currently, the Spanish and Argentine and Portuguese are changing the game there. So currently you have a melting pot in the EPL, a mishmash of the most expensive players and managers. Bob Bradley has joined that pinnacle of success and pay and will be given a chance to disprove what many Europeans (and South Americans) say about the USA, that we suck at soccer basically. But don't tell that to Bradley, as he is changing the tenor of the conversation to the fact that Swansea are a local club who want to stay in the EPL, he is having none of the "first American coach" PR nonsense that we can't get enough of arguing about.


There's a huge difference in these examples. Back in Ferguson's era, Scottish football was quality. Scottish teams won European championships. Ferguson played professionally there and at least learned the game from top-flight managers. Spain, Argentina, and Portugal are all footballing cultures that have produced some of the best players and managers the game has every seen. I don't think Coach Bob's situation is really applicable here.

I'll give you that you've found an exception in Warburton. But you had to look to a league that isn't even in Europe's top ten to find one. And this guy at least went through Leicester City's youth system and learned the game from professional youth coaches, and grew up in a place where people constantly watch and talk about football. He would have seen countless professional football matches on TV and live by the time he became a manager. Before his coaching career, he watched the training sessions of clubs all around Europe. After that, he rose through the coaching ranks, learning under top-flight coaches. So it's quite a different story from Coach Bob, who was never knew anyone who had even been exposed to the game at that level. But examples like Warburton are extremely rare exceptions and you guys refuse to acknowledge this. I would say if 99% of people that do something have quality X (and the 1% that are the exception have something related to quality X), than it's quite relevant what quality X is. Finding the extremely occasional exception is missing the point.

And again, I ask you, why isn't it that despite producing so many great basketball players (better than any soccer players we've ever produced), we've never seen Europe send a coach to the NBA? I'm sure that if there was an exception, it was someone who actually played in the NBA.

Original post from MSantoine

Bill Bellicek & Greg Popovich approve your message


You can't be serious...completely different sports, which is the point I've made. Soccer is very different to American sports. Few NFL coaches actually played the game professionally. But they at least learned the game from other professional coaches as they rose through the coaching ranks. This wasn't the case for Coach Bob.
GET A CLUB TEAM
dolcem
Post #53
Saturday October 8, 2016 2:16pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,712
Original post from 2tone

What straw man? You specifically asked what notable managers In world football weren't high
Level players. I provided you names. That pretty much shut down your argument. You never stated they had to be current managers.

To be a top level manager in any sport you do not have to have played at the highest level. That is what I stated. Producing even one name defeats your argument. That in science circles is called disproving a theory. And then I backed it up with more data I.e. Producing more names. You're theory has thus been disproved.


As I said before, 99% of managers played top-flight football (first or second division). Your list to counter that only had two managers that did not. Two. Out of dozens (over a hundred if you include leagues like Portugal and Holland). You had to choose three managers that aren't even active anymore, including someone who hasn't coached in decades. And as I said before, the only exceptions to this 99% are people that were at least in close contact with the game and grew up in a culture where they regularly talked about the game with other people and watched top-flight professional matches live.

Coach Bob had none of this. That is why if he is a success, it will have been completely unprecedented, for the same reason it'd be a huge deal of a Korean manager who only played in the K-League ended up in charge of a Premier League club.

I don't have any "theory" that you have "disproved." I have made the simple observation that no one with a background like Coach Bob's has ever managed a top-flight club in the European game. Heck, there are very few managers that have even made it from second-tier European leagues into the first-tier, and they had all of the advantages I just spoke of that Bob never had.

Original post from hamsamwich

@dolcem- I'm sorry but that's just an outdated thought process. "This is what we usually do so let's keep on doing that" is what I'm getting from you. Basically people have cited examples from every sport (let's not forget the legendary John Candy in the movie Cool Runnings) that prove you didn't have to be a "top flight player". What of the newer crowd like Warburton at Rangers formerly at Brentford. Guy was some sort of stock broker, but his teams play exciting football with "modern" tactics. As for coach Bob, your point would've had merit if talking about the inexperienced, 1996 version of Bob Bradley twenty years ago. These days he has plenty of managerial experience, which is quite different than what you are using for reference point, playing experience. If nobody knows what they are doing or talking about here in America, why are we commenting on a forum? In a way, your whole, "we do X here in Argentina, so it's great" viewpoint which is a theme of your posts only serves to perpetuate the same exclusionary practice that created an old boys network that allows for ex players in the "top leagues" to have a monopoly over the managerial jobs.

One only has to look at the most popular league, the EPL, for a look at what outside perspectives can do. The most successful of the common era was the Scotsman from Aberdeen, and later the Frenchman from the Japanese league. Currently, the Spanish and Argentine and Portuguese are changing the game there. So currently you have a melting pot in the EPL, a mishmash of the most expensive players and managers. Bob Bradley has joined that pinnacle of success and pay and will be given a chance to disprove what many Europeans (and South Americans) say about the USA, that we suck at soccer basically. But don't tell that to Bradley, as he is changing the tenor of the conversation to the fact that Swansea are a local club who want to stay in the EPL, he is having none of the "first American coach" PR nonsense that we can't get enough of arguing about.


There's a huge difference in these examples. Back in Ferguson's era, Scottish football was quality. Scottish teams won European championships. Ferguson played professionally there and at least learned the game from top-flight managers. Spain, Argentina, and Portugal are all footballing cultures that have produced some of the best players and managers the game has every seen. I don't think Coach Bob's situation is really applicable here.

I'll give you that you've found an exception in Warburton. But you had to look to a league that isn't even in Europe's top ten to find one. And this guy at least went through Leicester City's youth system and learned the game from professional youth coaches, and grew up in a place where people constantly watch and talk about football. He would have seen countless professional football matches on TV and live by the time he became a manager. Before his coaching career, he watched the training sessions of clubs all around Europe. After that, he rose through the coaching ranks, learning under top-flight coaches. So it's quite a different story from Coach Bob, who was never knew anyone who had even been exposed to the game at that level. But examples like Warburton are extremely rare exceptions and you guys refuse to acknowledge this. I would say if 99% of people that do something have quality X (and the 1% that are the exception have something related to quality X), than it's quite relevant what quality X is. Finding the extremely occasional exception is missing the point.

And again, I ask you, why isn't it that despite producing so many great basketball players (better than any soccer players we've ever produced), we've never seen Europe send a coach to the NBA? I'm sure that if there was an exception, it was someone who actually played in the NBA.

Original post from MSantoine

Bill Bellicek & Greg Popovich approve your message


You can't be serious...completely different sports, which is the point I've made. Soccer is completely different from American sports. Few NFL coaches actually played the game professionally. But they at least learned the game from other professional coaches as they rose through the coaching ranks. This wasn't the case for Coach Bob.
GET A CLUB TEAM
hamsamwich
Post #54
Saturday October 8, 2016 3:55pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,468
I'm pretty sure the reason why there hasn't been a foreign NBA coach is there are plenty of qualified candidates from USA, just as there are foreign soccer coaches in foreign countries. Pretty sure that part of it is a "those guys don't know the game like we do" mentality. Not only that, but to coach in most places you need all types of licenses that are basically geared towards ex players or guys whose careers are winding down. Those people have the time and money to do those courses. Your points aren't invalid, they are just outdated. Players play, coaches coach, managers manage. Again, if we were talking about someone that was green or had a Jason Kreis-like CV then I would buy more into what you're saying. But that's not Bradley, the journey to Egypt alone will buy credibility from the players.

goods
Post #55
Saturday November 26, 2016 5:56pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 311
Wow what a game. 5 total goals in the last 15 minutes. Both teams apparently went with a 0-2-2-7 formation. Crazy first win for Bob

Know Nothing
Post #56
Monday November 28, 2016 6:57pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,083
The post match interview was pretty interesting too. I didn't realize how political he could be and how much a few of the supporters groups are not behind him.

Also, some support from Niall Quinn of SkySports

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/27183/...

tylercocinas
Post #57
Tuesday December 27, 2016 8:45pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,100
Bradley out at Swansea

Rey Regicide
Post #58
Tuesday December 27, 2016 8:55pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,768
damn, that didn't last long..

admsghs27
Post #59
Tuesday December 27, 2016 9:03pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 5,992
I predict their next coach will be fired within 10 games. Swansea just stinks not even guardiola could save them.

skangles
DC
Post #60
Tuesday December 27, 2016 10:41pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,169
Original post from admsghs27

I predict their next coach will be fired within 10 games. Swansea just stinks not even guardiola could save them.


Depends on whether they open their wallet in January. This team needs a lot of help and I agree that they are relegation as currently constructed regardless of the manager.

Page 4 of 6
« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6  Next »

The young soccer careers of Rubio Rubin and Brady Scott are headed in completely opposite directions.
RECENT POSTS
Wagner Nears Premier League Goal
YA lineup prediction vs. T&T
vom Steeg lands at Fortuna
Good week for young Americans