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USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #316
Thursday June 23, 2016 1:19pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
mmee,

I appreciate the kind words. BUT I have not changed my opinion persay. I have always been critical of JK when needed (I was critical when he played Bedoya in a DM role, I have been critical of him plenty of other times about roster inclusion and lineup choices (mainly playing people out of position)). Overall despite being upset over Wondo playing and starting and thinking it makes no sense, This tournament has been a plus for JK. Doesn't mean he is without flaw. I still think he should not be fired, but that doesn't mean I don't think he made a big mistake against Argentina and screwed the pooch. I'm also realistic and realize that likely very little he could have done without 3 of the top 4 attacking players being out for this game. It does put him in a terrible spot, can't fire someone because they made it farther in a tournament than most expected and he went against a buzz saw of a team at the moment without some of his best players and got beat.

FYI Argentina this tournament...18 goals to 2. That's on average a 4-0 scoreline this tournament. They are a buzz saw. Team on a mission. Messi needs a major international tournament win. He wins this and possibly 2018 WC and he leaves Ronaldo in his dust and joins Pele and Maradona on the pedestal.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
KikitfaR
Post #317
Thursday June 23, 2016 1:34pm

Joined Jun 2016
Total Posts: 5
Original post from snipes87

Idk what some of you guys expect with a roster littered with MLS players playing against the best player in the world and that squad. Yeah 4-0 is bad and there isn't an excuse but to think a different coach would have done better is pure speculation.

So people didn't like Nagbe and Puli on the bench. Well Puli was on the pitch for half the match and we conceded 2. Nagbe for 1. We still had no shots. So let's not pretend like starting them would have made a difference.


1) The MLS isn't that terrible, but even still, it's not like Venzuela has a bunch players who are tearing up Europe.
2) I get its a tough night, but come on, every one on here can agree, JK was bad and the only thing he has to say was... "Our players should hold their heads up" ???? WTF maybe Zardes... No one looked good
3)I def don't like Puli or Nagbe on the bench. My point was, expecting a 17 yr old to come off the bench against Argentina and impact is retarded... You should start the game with your best XI, and I don't think Pulisic should've started, but only because he didn't get a single start in any friendly leading into the tournament... Which again, IMO is crazy. However I do think Nagbe should've started, Midfield was derived of players who are confident on the ball, players that will work they're way out of pressure and you have to have that type of player against high pressure opponents, especially when there's no Wood running behind to send the ball long.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #318
Thursday June 23, 2016 3:52pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
This narrative of NO one looked good. Garbage. Brooks, Cameron, Yedlin all looked good. Especially in the first half.
Goals were on Beckerman/Guzan (more Beckerman) and Wondolowski in the first half. After that most of the team fell apart and Brooks had a momentary lapse that gave up a goal. But Yedlin and Cameron were still playing hard and good. Brooks too except for the one mistake.

Those 3 have played well all tournament. Against Argentina was no different.
That game was on Beckerman, Wondolowski, Bradley, and Dempsey (non-existent, but that was expected with that lineup).

Zusi didn't play well but didn't do anything that hurt us extremely bad. Zardes had some nice hustle plays and a few decent runs, but in general his first touch was lacking (better than Wondo's). Those 2 were just ok.

FabJo played well, but didn't feature much until the 2nd half.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
dolcem
Post #319
Thursday June 23, 2016 3:52pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from mmee

Klinsmann/Gulati made me too sick to watch US soccer for a while. Did you want me to come back after the Guatemala loss that I didn't watch, dolcem?
After I didn't think JK could do any worse, this starting XI blew my fucking mind.So here I am for another post or two.

How does this not add together into a conclusion for you, you schmuck?


If you stopped watching us play because you don't like the manager, you're either not a real fan or you have some psychological issues.

You're not the manager. You have no control over who the manager is. And your opinion in regards to lineups, tactics, or even the manager is really of no relevance or importance. Neither are my opinions in regards to any of these things. So while a bit of discussion about some of this stuff can be fun, you people take it to a level that is just downright bizarre.

Not one person on here celebrated our win against Ecuador in the quarterfinals. We made the semis of the Copa America. It was a big accomplishment. We beat Costa Rica more badly than we ever have, we beat a very solid Paraguay team, and we beat Ecuador (and I have no clue where you get the idea that people think that we're better than Ecuador...because we're not). Not a single person on here celebrated. The only posts that were made were about people's lineup choices for the Argentina game. And then of course after the game all of the fire Klinsmann people came on here.

You make these absurd claims like 'if we played with a 3-5-2, we would be unstoppable.' You have absolutely no way of proving the validity of such a claim. EVEN IF we fired Klinsmann, and put a different manager in charge who used a 3-5-2, it wouldn't prove your point. The lineup is about 5-10% of the whole thing. One manager could play with the 3-5-2 and make it work, others wouldn't be able to. Every manager would have his own lineups and you would disagree with all of them (and even if he picked your lineup, it'd be different than everyone else's). So the idea that the lineup you use in FIFA is the One True Lineup and that JK is "insane" for not using it is just absurd.

Nowhere did I say that we have played well since the World Cup. We have been quite poor. That's for two reasons: we've had a World Cup hangover, which was to be expected after how the last World Cup went, and we're seriously in transition. We no longer have Donovan, Dempsey and Jones are old (although still playing well), Bradley and Altidore are sucking, Howard isn't the keeper he used to be, and we don't really have any young players making a big impact (Pulisic is just getting started). We're just not a very good team right now. But after last cycle, Klinsmann got an extension. Luckily we're not run like the FMF and we don't fire a manager every time we have a drop in form. Klinsmann is here until 2018 because he earned it. He proved last cycle (and while being in charge of the German NT) that he is a good manager, certainly better than anyone else living in the US.
GET A CLUB TEAM
USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #320
Thursday June 23, 2016 3:57pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
Don't think it's fair to say that no one on here celebrated the Ecuador win. I almost dropped my 2 month old baby celebrating that win. You think posting on a message board is the mark of if someone celebrated? HA. I'm much more tame in here than I am in real life. I was cursing JK out Tuesday night when I saw the lineup and ALL game. Those things paled in comparison to what I said in here on Wednesday. Generally speaking a night of sleep brings me back down to earth and being level headed. So by the time I post on here it's a lot more subdued (Positively and negatively).
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
dolcem
Post #321
Thursday June 23, 2016 4:03pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from USAGunner

Don't think it's fair to say that no one on here celebrated the Ecuador win. I almost dropped my 2 month old baby celebrating that win. You think posting on a message board is the mark of if someone celebrated? HA. I'm much more tame in here than I am in real life. I was cursing JK out Tuesday night when I saw the lineup and ALL game. Those things paled in comparison to what I said in here on Wednesday. Generally speaking a night of sleep brings me back down to earth and being level headed. So by the time I post on here it's a lot more subdued (Positively and negatively).


I definitely don't think that this message board reflects anything about the US fanship. But I was referring to certain posters here specifically. We win and they are nowhere to be found (and these wins never count for them...there's always some excuse about the opposition or whatever) and we lose and immediately they are on here calling for the manager's head. It's really annoying.

Another point I forgot to add was that of course Klinsmann has made mistakes. Every manager does. But we don't really know what they are because we're nowhere near the US national team. The lineup game is just completely pointless.
GET A CLUB TEAM
PortCityFan
Louisiana
Post #322
Thursday June 23, 2016 4:06pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 206
For everyone bashing on MLS, do we really feel that some of the MLS players selected are a true representation of the league? I'm sorry, I don't feel like Beckerman, Wondolowski, and Zusi are the players that were needed. We left behind a very good Jordan Morris, an in form Sacha( who I dislike but at this point with Bradley at the 6, he's an attacking option who is producing),a Sebastian Lletgett. There were a lot of the MLS players who had great tournaments. Hell Besler showed he could play outside left, we could have easily moved Fabian up the field. MLS is not taking us backwards, players selected from MLS is holding us back.

KikitfaR
Post #323
Thursday June 23, 2016 6:17pm

Joined Jun 2016
Total Posts: 5
Original post from USAGunner

This narrative of NO one looked good. Garbage. Brooks, Cameron, Yedlin all looked good. Especially in the first half.
Goals were on Beckerman/Guzan (more Beckerman) and Wondolowski in the first half. After that most of the team fell apart and Brooks had a momentary lapse that gave up a goal. But Yedlin and Cameron were still playing hard and good. Brooks too except for the one mistake.

Those 3 have played well all tournament. Against Argentina was no different.
That game was on Beckerman, Wondolowski, Bradley, and Dempsey (non-existent, but that was expected with that lineup).

Zusi didn't play well but didn't do anything that hurt us extremely bad. Zardes had some nice hustle plays and a few decent runs, but in general his first touch was lacking (better than Wondo's). Those 2 were just ok.

FabJo played well, but didn't feature much until the 2nd half.


I suppose the D was ok. Pretty flat, given that they had no outlets, I'll that go. However watch the 2nd goal, Zusi is directly responsible for Messi being able to shoot that ball in the far post upper 90... So actually he did hurt us.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #324
Thursday June 23, 2016 6:48pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
Original post from KikitfaR

I suppose the D was ok. Pretty flat, given that they had no outlets, I'll that go. However watch the 2nd goal, Zusi is directly responsible for Messi being able to shoot that ball in the far post upper 90... So actually he did hurt us.


Perhaps. But that would tend to go on Guzan not Zusi. The GK is responsible for making sure everyone is in the proper position for how HE wants them.

Either way I don't think it matters one bit. That is the best player in the world putting the ball in the upper right hand corner. We could have played it perfectly and it would have been a goal. That goal is completely on Wondo!
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
PortCityFan
Louisiana
Post #325
Thursday June 23, 2016 7:20pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 206
Original post from USAGunner

Perhaps. But that would tend to go on Guzan not Zusi. The GK is responsible for making sure everyone is in the proper position for how HE wants them.

Either way I don't think it matters one bit. That is the best player in the world putting the ball in the upper right hand corner. We could have played it perfectly and it would have been a goal. That goal is completely on Wondo!

The foul was committed by Wondo, but the original bad give away from Wondo is the reason he felt compelled to track him down and foul him. Not to mention Beckerman was passed as if he wasn't even there, I thought his role was to prevent players from running directly at our center backs? Granted it was Messi but still, neither Beckerman or Wondolowski should have sniffed that game

KikitfaR
Post #326
Thursday June 23, 2016 7:56pm

Joined Jun 2016
Total Posts: 5
Original post from USAGunner

Perhaps. But that would tend to go on Guzan not Zusi. The GK is responsible for making sure everyone is in the proper position for how HE wants them.

Either way I don't think it matters one bit. That is the best player in the world putting the ball in the upper right hand corner. We could have played it perfectly and it would have been a goal. That goal is completely on Wondo!


Completely agree wondo is at fault, think he drank Gyasi's Gatorade with those touches.

I don't think it was Guzans fault. Zusi was where he was supposed to be, he simply lets Lavezzi push him 2 yrds so Messi can hit that giant hole where Zusi was.... Not saying Messi wouldn't have scored anyway, I agree, but you got to make it difficult.

dunlopp9987
Post #327
Thursday June 23, 2016 8:08pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 2,642
Original post from dolcem

I definitely don't think that this message board reflects anything about the US fanship. But I was referring to certain posters here specifically. We win and they are nowhere to be found (and these wins never count for them...there's always some excuse about the opposition or whatever) and we lose and immediately they are on here calling for the manager's head. It's really annoying.

Another point I forgot to add was that of course Klinsmann has made mistakes. Every manager does. But we don't really know what they are because we're nowhere near the US national team. The lineup game is just completely pointless.


This pretty much sums it up for me.

When we win: No response/"well duh we won that game, there's no reason we shouldn't have won"/"the other team was missing their best player"/"we were outplayed, how is that a positive?"

When we lose: "JURGEN KLINSMANN IS THE ANTI-CHRIST"/"HAS THIS GUY EVER EVEN SEEN A FOOTBALL?!?"/"HOW DOES HE NOT SEE THAT THE LINEUP I CAME UP WITH IS CLEARLY THE ONE THAT WOULD'VE WON US THE GAME?!"

A whole lotta nothin when we win, a whole lotta shit-talking when we lose. Seems pretty ridiculous to me.
COYB!!
USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #328
Thursday June 23, 2016 8:45pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
Port City. Absolutely. The Give away was one of the most dreadful things I have seen. Worse than even Zardes give aways.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
blaise213
Post #329
Thursday June 23, 2016 9:04pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,994
Original post from dolcem

The lineup game is just completely pointless.


Not unless you know anything about match-ups! I understand that you keep players together for consistency but that doesn't always work if their not good enough for the opposition.

Just like the 2014 World Cup roster, this Copa roster was handicapped from the start! Still you had most of the right players for the right match-ups. Bradley should've only started in the Costa Rica and Paraguay game... When we play against fast and technically skilled teams (Colombia/Argentina), it is a MUST that we match them with our best technically skilled players! Players like Nguyen, Nagbe and Morris are needed for those types of games.

Everyone knew when Wondo, Zusi, and Beckerman were in the starting XI, we would lose. That was the worst soccer I've ever seen. I said from the beginning all 3 of them shouldn't even be on the roster, let alone in the starting XI

FIRE KLINSMANN !!!

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #330
Thursday June 23, 2016 9:10pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
Please stop saying Nguyen. Makes you lose all credibility.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
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