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kicksNgiggles10
Birmingham
Post #286
Wednesday June 22, 2016 6:18pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 572
Original post from dolcem

So you know what the tactics were? You were in the locker room? We got out asses handed to us by the second or third best team in the world. I don't think we can make any assumptions about tactics.


So does that mean you're telling me exactly how we played is how we intended to play? What else do we make assumptions about?! Jesus man, it's one thing to get bossed by the 2nd or 3rd best team in the world and be able to say we had a plan and executed it to the best of our ability. Did any of you see that? Cause I surely did not. I saw a shameful mess.

I responded above, but forgot this.

admsghs27
Post #287
Wednesday June 22, 2016 6:37pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
But to have 0 shots is absolutely unacceptable no matter how good the other team is.. I mean Argentina could of played without a goalie and still win..

Know Nothing
Post #288
Wednesday June 22, 2016 6:59pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,699
@dolcem

You are right. It is a fruitless discussion. The lineup I offered would not have won last night, but I would wager it would have created more chances.

Praising Wondo as the greatest American striker in MLS is debatable. He has done well, I give him that and he did receive praise from John Terry for being difficult to mark when Chelsea played the all-stars. But that was a few years ago. I will ask you though, what American striker that has played exclusively in MLS has had a great international career?

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #289
Wednesday June 22, 2016 8:26pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
That's what you got Dolcem?
Some of that is just ludicrous.
So it's ok if JK's gameplan was to attack and he put out a defensive roster? Or it was ok for JK to put out guys who can't press while trying to play the same way you have been all tournament (Pressing)?

That makes absolutely NO Sense.

We don't know exact strategy. Of course not. But based off of JK's history, his quotes before and after the game we can be assured 100% that it wasn't to park the bus and not attack. That's not his style, not what he likes to do, not what he said he was going to do, not even what they tried to do on the field. If you can't see that, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

It was clear we wanted to attack and press (in some form). Which makes Wondo an AWFUL choice. You absolutely go with a different formation or put Pulisic up top instead of Wondo (or even Zusi) in a 4-3-3.

All of these would offer a much better option with JK's stated goal was (how he wanted to play).
4-3-3
Zardes - Dempsey - Zusi
Bradley - Beckerman - Nagbe
Same back 4

4-3-3
Pulisic - Dempsey - Zardes
Bradley - Beckerman - Zusi

4-3-3
Pulisic - Dempsey - Zardes
Nagbe - Bradley - Zusi

4-4-2
Zardes - Dempsey
Nagbe - Beckerman - Bradley - Zusi

4-4-2
Zardes - Dempsey
Pulisic - Nagbe - Bradley - Zusi

Zardes - Dempsey
Nagbe - Beckerman - Bradley - Zusi

all of those are better options, and all of them gives you either Zusi, Nagbe, or Pulisic off the bench (Save 1).
Sorry there is NO reason that Wondo should start. ZERO.

Again normally I agree with you about criticizing lineups. Normally it makes little sense. But that doesn't mean that it can NEVER be criticized legitimately.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
kicksNgiggles10
Birmingham
Post #290
Wednesday June 22, 2016 8:55pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 572
Original post from USAGunner

That's what you got Dolcem?
Some of that is just ludicrous.
So it's ok if JK's gameplan was to attack and he put out a defensive roster? Or it was ok for JK to put out guys who can't press while trying to play the same way you have been all tournament (Pressing)?

That makes absolutely NO Sense.

We don't know exact strategy. Of course not. But based off of JK's history, his quotes before and after the game we can be assured 100% that it wasn't to park the bus and not attack. That's not his style, not what he likes to do, not what he said he was going to do, not even what they tried to do on the field. If you can't see that, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

It was clear we wanted to attack and press (in some form). Which makes Wondo an AWFUL choice. You absolutely go with a different formation or put Pulisic up top instead of Wondo (or even Zusi) in a 4-3-3.

All of these would offer a much better option with JK's stated goal was (how he wanted to play).
4-3-3
Zardes - Dempsey - Zusi
Bradley - Beckerman - Nagbe
Same back 4

4-3-3
Pulisic - Dempsey - Zardes
Bradley - Beckerman - Zusi

4-3-3
Pulisic - Dempsey - Zardes
Nagbe - Bradley - Zusi

4-4-2
Zardes - Dempsey
Nagbe - Beckerman - Bradley - Zusi

4-4-2
Zardes - Dempsey
Pulisic - Nagbe - Bradley - Zusi

Zardes - Dempsey
Nagbe - Beckerman - Bradley - Zusi

all of those are better options, and all of them gives you either Zusi, Nagbe, or Pulisic off the bench (Save 1).
Sorry there is NO reason that Wondo should start. ZERO.

Again normally I agree with you about criticizing lineups. Normally it makes little sense. But that doesn't mean that it can NEVER be criticized legitimately.

Agreed. What I was trying to say on the last page.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #291
Wednesday June 22, 2016 10:46pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
It's nice to see that USAGunner has come around to some degree.

Also, if you go back a few episodes on Total Soccer Show pod, they predicted some of the problems of a line-up like this.... just flat-out predicted them.

We literally saw Messi wide open + shambolic defending on the first goal, minutes into the game. Every word out of Klinsmann's mouth is something emphasizing a vague "go get 'em" mentality... but it must be the fault of the players' quality?

Hey Dolcem:

https://twitter.com/EricWynalda/status/745454...
https://twitter.com/AlexiLalas/status/7456192...

....and your way of thinking is more or less why the big supporters clubs aren't boycotting the USNT at this point: you tell yourself a long story about how "we're doing the best we can" right now, and you're just there to cheer.

USNT would have been better prepared for that game from '94 to the end of Bradley...... (and yet we have a better top 20 players now, by far, without debate). We would not have lost as badly, we would not have shown as badly, and we would have given ourselves a slim chance to win.
So what could possibly be going wrong right now??? I don't buy the vague philosophy that it must be "growing pains" as we're "transitioning" to something better. What would make something like that even possibly true after what we've seen in the last 18+ months?

I suspect that we have an intermittently insane person (with an upside) as our coach; this is not a figurative statement, I think he's actually insane and it's an emperor's new clothes situation we have here. It's so obvious that the guys from TSS were able to pick apart his decisions (and the lack of media challenge) within minutes after the game.

Ok, I'm out. I can't really participate in a polite fashion on a board while JK and Gulati reign. I'm constantly tempted to rain expletives on anyone who doesn't get it.

dunlopp9987
Post #292
Wednesday June 22, 2016 11:31pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 2,642
Original post from mmee

It's nice to see that USAGunner has come around to some degree.

Also, if you go back a few episodes on Total Soccer Show pod, they predicted some of the problems of a line-up like this.... just flat-out predicted them.

We literally saw Messi wide open + shambolic defending on the first goal, minutes into the game. Every word out of Klinsmann's mouth is something emphasizing a vague "go get 'em" mentality... but it must be the fault of the players' quality?

Hey Dolcem:

https://twitter.com/EricWynalda/status/745454...
https://twitter.com/AlexiLalas/status/7456192...

....and your way of thinking is more or less why the big supporters clubs aren't boycotting the USNT at this point: you tell yourself a long story about how "we're doing the best we can" right now, and you're just there to cheer.

USNT would have been better prepared for that game from '94 to the end of Bradley...... (and yet we have a better top 20 players now, by far, without debate). We would not have lost as badly, we would not have shown as badly, and we would have given ourselves a slim chance to win.
So what could possibly be going wrong right now??? I don't buy the vague philosophy that it must be "growing pains" as we're "transitioning" to something better. What would make something like that even possibly true after what we've seen in the last 18+ months?

I suspect that we have an intermittently insane person (with an upside) as our coach; this is not a figurative statement, I think he's actually insane and it's an emperor's new clothes situation we have here. It's so obvious that the guys from TSS were able to pick apart his decisions (and the lack of media challenge) within minutes after the game.

Ok, I'm out. I can't really participate in a polite fashion on a board while JK and Gulati reign. I'm constantly tempted to rain expletives on anyone who doesn't get it.


I just found it funny that you were nowhere to be seen when the US was playing well leading up to the Copa, then for the first 4 games. And as soon as we lose, you come waltzing back in like you're the Almighty Wizard of Football.

Jurgen's lineup choice last night was fucking terrible. And totally contradicting to what he had said about "going for it." Wondo and Beckerman showed that Jurgen is too fucking stubborn when it comes to picking "his guys" and Jurgen should've seen that coming. The players are professionals, and should give it 100% regardless (lookin at you, Fabian), but ultimately Jurgen failed them by picking that starting XI. And leaving off someone like Morris.

Why is it so easy for me to see both sides and acknowledge both sides, while everyone in the anti-JK camp is literally incapable of paying him any respect or praise? You look like spoiled children/incompetent morons when you bitch and whine and moan when things aren't going well, but have a hard time admitting Jurgen may have done some things right. It's literally the exact same thing that has happened/is still happening to president Obama. Both are polarizing figures, sure, but you lose ALL CREDIBILITY when you are so stubborn that you can't admit Jurgen might know what he's doing. Does he know what he's doing all the time? Definitely not. Which is frustrating. But you have to be able to see both sides of it without your prejudice blinding you.
COYB!!
bjelks
Post #293
Wednesday June 22, 2016 11:44pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,362
Wood
Dempsey

Fab Jones Nagbe Zardes

Besler Brooks Cam Yedlin
goalsense
dolcem
Post #294
Thursday June 23, 2016 12:51am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from kicksNgiggles10

@dolcem You're right. If the gameplan (tactics) were to half ass press leaving ourselves exposed on occasion and half ass defend while maintaining no possession or stringing together more than an average of 2 passes then we nailed it! Way to go guys! I would go as far to say that the tactics, in JK's mind, didn't change with the lineup. I think he thought we would press exactly the way we have attempted to the whole tourney. Even he himself said Wondo was a straight sub for Wood. Which is the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard. No way that Mid last night can press the same way without Jones and Bedoya. IMO that's why we saw what Alexi pointed out....half defend, counter and half press. Pick one! I get the impression, based on comments made by JK that he intended to try and press. But when that line up was out there, that I don't really think is best suited to press, they lost the gameplan and had to defend way more than they expected. And then you saw what you saw. No we don't know what a different line-up would have brought but hindsight is 20/20 no? That was not a starting XI that was built to possess, press and attack. Yet I am led to believe that was what we wanted to do bc that's what he said. Regardless of how good Argentina is (excellent), I think most here agree that whatever the tactics were, they were utterly shit. Or at least executed poorly, if at all. To me no one looked like they had a clue what was going on. Maybe Zardes. I wasn't expecting a win, but I was at least expecting something that looked like soccer.


But you don't know what the tactics were. Argentina controlled the game so much that we weren't able to execute our game plan. Was the preparation prior to the game inadequate? Or was Argentina just that good? I don't know, and neither do you. It was one game. The sample size is just too small. But I'm going to trust how great Germany's '06 cycle was and our '14 cycle (the whole record winning percentage thing, qualifying with ease from the group of death, and being a Wondo away from the quarterfinals) as sufficient evidence that he has some sort of clue (apparently though people on this forum think you can get this far in a coaching career by knowing less about soccer than we do). At least more than some MLS coach who has never played or coached at this level before.

Original post from Live490

He was right to leave Nagbe and Pulisic on the bench for if we were losing? That's it. That's what is wrong. That mentality. Of course we would be losing but why not take a different approach. Why not have one start and the other off the bench? Already going in losing. That's a damn shame and un American. No matter how small of a chance we have, there is a chance. As minimal as it is. Thinking like that already is wrong. What message do you give to your players? To the ppl? To the rivals?


So what are we supposed to do when we're down 2-0 and Nagbe and Pulisic are already on the pitch? Bring in Beckerman and Wondolowsi?

Original post from USAGunner

That's what you got Dolcem?
Some of that is just ludicrous.
So it's ok if JK's gameplan was to attack and he put out a defensive roster? Or it was ok for JK to put out guys who can't press while trying to play the same way you have been all tournament (Pressing)?



How was the roster "defensive?" It was a normal 4-4-2. Two strikers, two wingers (one of which is sort of a striker), a #6 and a #8 with two attacking full backs. What is "defensive" about that? And who are these guys that can't press? Enlighten us.

Original post from mmee

It's nice to see that USAGunner has come around to some degree.

Also, if you go back a few episodes on Total Soccer Show pod, they predicted some of the problems of a line-up like this.... just flat-out predicted them.

We literally saw Messi wide open + shambolic defending on the first goal, minutes into the game. Every word out of Klinsmann's mouth is something emphasizing a vague "go get 'em" mentality... but it must be the fault of the players' quality?

Hey Dolcem:

https://twitter.com/EricWynalda/status/745454...
https://twitter.com/AlexiLalas/status/7456192...

....and your way of thinking is more or less why the big supporters clubs aren't boycotting the USNT at this point: you tell yourself a long story about how "we're doing the best we can" right now, and you're just there to cheer.

USNT would have been better prepared for that game from '94 to the end of Bradley...... (and yet we have a better top 20 players now, by far, without debate). We would not have lost as badly, we would not have shown as badly, and we would have given ourselves a slim chance to win.
So what could possibly be going wrong right now??? I don't buy the vague philosophy that it must be "growing pains" as we're "transitioning" to something better. What would make something like that even possibly true after what we've seen in the last 18+ months?

I suspect that we have an intermittently insane person (with an upside) as our coach; this is not a figurative statement, I think he's actually insane and it's an emperor's new clothes situation we have here. It's so obvious that the guys from TSS were able to pick apart his decisions (and the lack of media challenge) within minutes after the game.

Ok, I'm out. I can't really participate in a polite fashion on a board while JK and Gulati reign. I'm constantly tempted to rain expletives on anyone who doesn't get it.


I didn't read those twitter statuses because it is painful to listen to anything that comes out of either Lalas' or Wynalda's mouths.

Anyone who wants to boycott the USNT because we got beat in the semifinals by Argentina (after having a fantastic last cycle) is either a fucking idiot or not a real fan.

You make these absurd claims like "[the] USNT would have been better prepared for that game from '94 to the end of Bradley...... (and yet we have a better top 20 players now, by far, without debate)." You have absolutely no way of backing this claim with any type of evidence or logic. We will never know how we would have played this game coached by Arena or Bradley. Argentina played their lights out. They are in the top three teams in the world and are more motivated than ever (unlike, say, Spain in '09). And we received beatdowns on several occasions during either of the last few cycles; we're somewhere between the 30th and 40th best team in the world probably and so of course we're going to have some heavy losses against top ranked teams. You can't just make these ridiculous claims based on one game. Last cycle from start to finish was arguably the best in our history (record winning percentage despite our toughest schedule ever, winning at the Azteca, a fantastic World Cup) yet none of that means anything because we've had a dip in form. Your claim that our players our better is simply false because Dempsey is old, Howard is old (wasn't playing), we're without Donovan or Bocanegra or Cherundolo, and Bradley and Altidore have been terrible since coming to the MLS. I don't think any other manager would get much better results at this point (and making the semi-finals was an accomplishment, something that is being completely ignored).

I find it amusing too that you think that someone who is "actually insane" could rebuild a stagnant program, lay the foundation for future success (define the style, identify key players, pick the future manager that at the time no one believed in), and finish third at a world cup. Or finish a cycle with the RECORD winning percentage. Our first win at the Azteca. An incredible World Cup. Now THAT is "insane." Klinsmann isn't a world class manager but NO ONE with his CV is anywhere near coaching us. Period. That's why he was given the job for this cycle and unless we fail to qualify, he isn't getting fired, so you're completely wasting your time and energy getting so blue in the face about it. And thank god we're not like the FMF and fire our manager every time there is a dip in form.
GET A CLUB TEAM
chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #295
Thursday June 23, 2016 1:18am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,517
I'm a notorious JK supporter, and I believe the process to actually compete against top 5 teams in the world, when they badly want a result...not friendlies, will take quite a long time. We don't have enough players that can hang yet, without having to resort to bunkering and countering to keep the game respectable.

When you see some of our quickest most technical players (Fab,Nagbe,Pulisic) struggling to to get any separation...basically in survival death spiral mode being smothered, it shows you the rest of the players on the team have little chance. We couldn't get anything done against their team speed and pressure. Our players didn't turn into crap overnight. Argentina makes our best players look the same as our worst...no time and space to get anything done at all...just turnover after turnover. I don't get the attitude this guy now completely sucks because he couldn't do squat against Argentina.

With all that said I was mystified by the starting 11. I love Wondo, but the pairing with Deuce up top was bizarre...an absolute no-win situation. As everyone has stated we weren't committed to either bunker/counter or sell out high press. We could have keep the score closer with bunker counter, but JK would have been skewered, since he really played up the potential attacking aspects of the team. The tactical approach and line up selections for this game were so strange, I'm still trying to figure out any plausible rationale.

The only thing I can think of is this. JK talked big, but knew exactly what Argentina could do to us...to the point that it almost didn't matter which 11 we had on the field. With that in mind he gave a few guys their final shot in a nats uniform as a perverse thank you.

Grasping at straws to make sense of it.

Anybody else have anything...and simply stating JK sucks doesn't count.

hamsamwich
Post #296
Thursday June 23, 2016 1:25am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,212
We had to play an open game with the old guard so that it actually could succeed or more likely fail. It's not a video game and you can't just take players in and out of a lineup because it's actually a team game and these are real people. Players like Bradley, Beckerman, Jones, Bedoya, Dempsey, Wondo, Zusi etc all have earned their spot within the team concept, the USA national team. And they did well, not outstanding, but that's down the road. We simply aren't good enough to play an open game against a team like Argentina and even trouble them.

What's funny is the same people crapped on me for saying we should shoot for a 0-0 draw. We didn't... We tried and failed to go "at" them. There was no defensive block, hoof the ball up the field mentality. And in the aftermath, it was good to see what some can't do, as we head towards Russia WC qualifying. Players can now be replaced, but those coming in will have to earn their places within the team. Brooks and Cameron as a CB pairing looked promising until the midfield and attack crumbled.

The way forward is to have better players and though I'm beating a drum here, Fabian Johnson must be used as an attacker. He's our most dangerous player, and should be treated as such.

skangles
DC
Post #297
Thursday June 23, 2016 1:29am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,443
I don't have a problem with a defend and counter tactic against elite teams. As you said, we don't have the same caliber of players.

The problem with last night is that we didn't defend and we didn't counter. We didn't have the speed up top to hit them on the break. Zardes was our best outlet option but he was often back deep defending. We didn't have enough support in the midfield and we were sloppy with our passes.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #298
Thursday June 23, 2016 1:52am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
Original post from dunlopp9987

I just found it funny that you were nowhere to be seen when the US was playing well leading up to the Copa, then for the first 4 games. And as soon as we lose, you come waltzing back in like you're the Almighty Wizard of Football.

Jurgen's lineup choice last night was fucking terrible. And totally contradicting to what he had said about "going for it." Wondo and Beckerman showed that Jurgen is too fucking stubborn when it comes to picking "his guys" and Jurgen should've seen that coming. The players are professionals, and should give it 100% regardless (lookin at you, Fabian), but ultimately Jurgen failed them by picking that starting XI. And leaving off someone like Morris.

Why is it so easy for me to see both sides and acknowledge both sides, while everyone in the anti-JK camp is literally incapable of paying him any respect or praise? You look like spoiled children/incompetent morons when you bitch and whine and moan when things aren't going well, but have a hard time admitting Jurgen may have done some things right. It's literally the exact same thing that has happened/is still happening to president Obama. Both are polarizing figures, sure, but you lose ALL CREDIBILITY when you are so stubborn that you can't admit Jurgen might know what he's doing. Does he know what he's doing all the time? Definitely not. Which is frustrating. But you have to be able to see both sides of it without your prejudice blinding you.


Original post from mmee
I suspect that we have an intermittently insane person (with an upside) as our coach


I am not talking like the US didn't do anything noteworthy to escape the group. I know we don't have commentary histories on this site, but I never talked like JK has no upside. I think your prejudice is blinding you. We have a lot of evidence from a lot of players, ex-players and pundits that he doesn't know what he's doing, in a way that I think is literally intermittently insane.

Klinsmann/Gulati made me too sick to watch US soccer for a while. Did you want me to come back after the Guatemala loss that I didn't watch, dolcem?
After I didn't think JK could do any worse, this starting XI blew my fucking mind.So here I am for another post or two.

Why don't you connect your above objections to the starting XI, with the other willfully stupid decisions that he has made in the last 18+ months? (and this is without dredging up multiple WC 2014 decisions that are valid evidence by far).
Why do you refuse to add the parts together? This is why I don't talk on boards about USNT, because I'm too old to call people fuckin' idiots on the internet every day. You're being a fuckin' idiot. Some high fraction of the time (let's say 20% for argument) JK shoots us in the foot with his stupid decisions. SEE IT, understand it, admit it: it's way too often. ...you just watch as nightmare stories come out after he leaves.

• Columbia: loss to a team widely regarded as top 5, poor style
• Costa Rica: win over a team widely regarded as worse than us right now, good style against a vulnerable team, Yedlin is a legit idiot but JK talks him up
• Ecuador: win over a team widely regarded as better than us, partly good style, some poor choices by players and JK
• Argentina: loss to a team widely regarded as top 5, terrible style and clear lack of tactical approach

The Ecuador game is the game that was a surprise and pushed us out of the group. We won 2-1 on home soil, and we did it with a good showing. Furthermore, I have never, ever talked like JK has no upside. You and like 2 other site members talk like you refuse to recognize a trend in the last 18+ months of him making just deeply stupid decisions with some frequency. This trend had some weighty precursors before the 2014 WC and has become a clear problem since. No other nation would stand for him at this point. It is not a question of one roster decision, or one starter preference, or one single bad showing, or one tactical or substitution error, or even one story about over-training and under-preparing and psychological bullshit.

He is more stubborn and egotistical than most. Every coach has favorites and dislikes, but he bases his on what is apparently an over-emphasis on worshipful devotees. He is more "visionary" than most, which has done more harm than good for 18+ months now, so what good is it? Over-tinkering and saying "go for it!!" can't be a coach's most salient features. It's fucking insane, dolcem, jesus christ. Far too many of his decisions are anti-tactical and based on himself, "philosophy" and psychological con-artistry. And what is this "step on their toes" shit?
"I want you to go out there and get a bunch of unnecessary reds and yellows!! That's how we'll give ourselves the best chance of beating the #1 team in the world!!" His approach with US Soccer player psychologies is to break them down by telling them we can't beat teams better than us (i.e. Euro style pessimism about mismatches, when previously European fans were in awe of our team's mentality across multiple cups), which is the LAST area where we needed work (i.e. vs technical, tactical, athletic) and replace it with a new "yessir" player who really wants to foul, and wants to bend frying pans? Fuck's sake, dolcem. See the writing on the wall. Our players knew the difference between real belief/commitment and frying-pan-bending belief/commitment. Now they don't know which side is up. Evidence: last 6 shitty losses to Argentina, Colombia, Guatemala, Mexico, Panama, Jamaica.

As for players like Johnson and Donovan and Feilhaber and so on, how many other coaches in world soccer would simply manage these player psychologies to optimize their success, and leave any matters of their own ego at the fucking door? Sure, not all of them, but most of them; it's professional and it's practical. (Alan Ferguson didn't need tom because they could pay for the best of the best, for decades. But we need to optimize player psychology management; we don't have a ton of luxuries here.)
If you made FJ the offer of "I'm going to play you at wing if you win the spot, or nothing if you don't." don't you think he'd wholeheartedly agree? Not every player has the same psychology as every other player, so demanding the same psychology from them is stupid (and egotistical). DMB's psychological strength allowed him to overachieve at LB while being old and outweighed. FJ's psychological strengths allow him to take care of business in the CL. They're not necessarily the same. FJ's might allow him to play LB/RB under duress, and do it gladly, but not to be a regular there. I think this is what we're seeing.

[side point, but hell, some coaches would have looked at the strengths and weaknesses of our best 40 players and made sure we had a 3-5-2/5-3-2 as one of our main formations: we have enough WB for both sides, plus our best CBs being guys who can carry forward when given the space, plus the type of two-way middies we have, and more F than wing types, and you have a solid basis for that formation that isn't dependent on 11 precise players being healthy and not suspended, YET it would play to our best 11-14 players quite well]

What have Wondo and Beckerman done for our team in the last 18+ months that would give any sane, competent coach a reason to start them? (now work backward to 'why the fuck are the on the roster?')
What does playing Zusi in this game do, and shouldn't he be a total role player at this point?
(I am not talking dirt on these players as pros, by the way, that's not what I'm saying at all)
What about that midfield tandem of KB and MB made it seem like a good idea? Why did he think KB would be a net-positive?
What about the slow speed of Wondo and Dempsey (and Wondo's inability in big games) made it seem like a good idea? Why were they pressing without a full team press, and doing it so consistently that it was clearly the game plan?
We wind up with this horrible problem on possession, when one of our best combo dribbler/passer/two-way players is on the bench. Ha.

Does JK's emphasis on stepping on toes get JJ, AB, DY and BW suspended? Maybe playing with fire is necessary to do as well as we did, but what part of those actual suspensions were worth the price?? Don't we have to gain something for a card to be worth it? One dumb suspension is a player. Four is a team problem, and the worst one from a coaching POV was Bedoya who CLEARLY needed to be subbed out earlier.

How does this not add together into a conclusion for you, you schmuck?

dunlopp9987
Post #299
Thursday June 23, 2016 2:14am

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 2,642
See, ^that is a rational, smart critique of Jurgen Klinsmann. What I see far too often on here is:

Adms & Live90: Broken English, gloom-and-doom, absurdity
Blaise: "#firejurgen #jurgenout #trump2016" - That's about all he contributes
Rain: Stats, stats, stats, and stats. And then more stats. And omitting things that don't fit his mindset.

If we had more logical posters like you, I wouldn't get so fed up with the majority of the anti-JK camp.

Ultimately, I think it is time to bring in a tactician. Jurgen is not that. Sometimes he can be, but not often. I think he's done a great job at bringing in some players who might not have signed up for us, and I love his willingness to push players to play at a higher level (note: not here). But I would love to see us hire someone who knows the X's and O's (pardon the expression).

Unfortunately for us, I don't really think that's out there right now. If some of our younger guys can continue to grow and impress in Europe, this position will be much more appealing come 2018. But right now? Why would anyone want this job?
COYB!!
kicksNgiggles10
Birmingham
Post #300
Thursday June 23, 2016 2:17am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 572
@dolcem
I'm not saying I know more than anyone. But again, hindsight is 20/20. Do you seriously think if JK had a time machine that he would start the same lineup because we had sound tactics and a sound game plan and Argentina is just that good. Or do you think seeing the way that XI played that he would make some changes? I think that is apparent with the pulisic sub. When was the last time JK made a sub at half time of a meaningful match? Any way...I don't think the sky is falling not do I plan on boycotting anything. But I do think JK got it wrong. Flat out. And he prolly should have just said that instead of saying we didn't step on their toes enough. And I've been a supporter of him since day one. But clearly we are going to have to Ron Burgandy this one. Agree to disagree.

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