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Jzaval01
Post #1
Monday June 6, 2016 7:22am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,315
Now im no coach. Ill start with that, these observations and opinions are based on the countless of games ive seen through south america Europe and International play so maybe im missing something here. Hopefully i word it well and you guys understand what im tring to say.

Why is it that the first thing we do when we play a match agaisnt a better team we think defense? We hide and we try to just hold onto a result. We never really try to take it to the opponent. Now obviously some teams are just better but i feel like we lack fight at times. That means winning the second balls. I see mexico and those guys are pulling, throwing themselves and putting their bodies on the line. That shows me it means something to play for the national team. Now mexico is our rival and of course i despise them but cant help to admire that part, theyre pests in every play (just see that 1st half vs Uruguay). I see the mexican squad and in paper they shouldnt be miles ahead of us right now... layun for example couldnt even make it to the premier league but yedlin can and for some reason layun looks a hell of a lot better in the attack and defense and thats obviously to the different systems we play vs mexico. 3/4 defenders are top 4 league caliber starters. I dont count johnson because he should be up top in the attack at LM imo (wood is not a LW) especially since we struggle in the attack. But instead Jurgen leaves an inform villafana and puts johnson. That tells me "defend first". This all comes down to the big point and thats jurgen. It just feels like he lacks any strategy or anything as his bayern ex players said (nothing new). I remember we played Austria friendly and they had Alaba a LB at LM to play us. Now of course were not a top country but when we play guatemala or probably the next match Costa rica, johnson will still be a LB. It only took Osorio a few months to figure out his team. Jurgen in 4 yrs is still lost. Oh and that fight i was talking about... coincedently weve lost it under Jurgen too.
Going back to the defense. Do we not trust these "top league players"? Yes you want your team to defend as a whole and support them when they can but not to the point where we have 0 attack. Last point is why do we look like we cant pass simple balls at times?

Pay attention to how costa rica and Paraguay play colombia. Tactically theyll prob handle them and cuadrado better. Might still lose but i think ill be a much better performance than what we put out. Just note this isnt just the last match but jurgen tenure as a whole is so discouraging and yet its becuase we dont have enough talent according to him.

My point of all these is trying to understand why this team cant take a further forward. Whether you agree or disagree that its jurgen not.

admsghs27
Post #2
Monday June 6, 2016 8:06am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Usa COULD HAVE NEYMAR, Messi, Cristiano and we would still suck cause kilnnsman is a garbage coach and yall know its true.

MSantoine
Post #3
Monday June 6, 2016 11:27am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Hate to break it to you but Mexico's roster is miles ahead of ours.

If Chicharito was American he'd be considered the best American of all time. He scores for Mexico (1 goal every other game), Scores in EPL (Championship). Scores in Bundesliga. He's accomplished more than any one we've ever had.

Guys like Jimenex, Moreno, Reyes, Vela, Guardado would probably all start if on team USA. Dos Santos would probably start for us if he was eligible.

USA has more depth. 10-30 or so our roster is better than them but they have a much better top 5-6 players on their roster then we do on ours.

Rey Regicide
Post #4
Monday June 6, 2016 12:33pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
Original post from Jzaval01

Now im no coach. Ill start with that, these observations and opinions are based on the countless of games ive seen through south america Europe and International play so maybe im missing something here. Hopefully i word it well and you guys understand what im tring to say.

Why is it that the first thing we do when we play a match agaisnt a better team we think defense? We hide and we try to just hold onto a result. We never really try to take it to the opponent. Now obviously some teams are just better but i feel like we lack fight at times. That means winning the second balls. I see mexico and those guys are pulling, throwing themselves and putting their bodies on the line. That shows me it means something to play for the national team. Now mexico is our rival and of course i despise them but cant help to admire that part, theyre pests in every play (just see that 1st half vs Uruguay). I see the mexican squad and in paper they shouldnt be miles ahead of us right now... layun for example couldnt even make it to the premier league but yedlin can and for some reason layun looks a hell of a lot better in the attack and defense and thats obviously to the different systems we play vs mexico. 3/4 defenders are top 4 league caliber starters. I dont count johnson because he should be up top in the attack at LM imo (wood is not a LW) especially since we struggle in the attack. But instead Jurgen leaves an inform villafana and puts johnson. That tells me "defend first". This all comes down to the big point and thats jurgen. It just feels like he lacks any strategy or anything as his bayern ex players said (nothing new). I remember we played Austria friendly and they had Alaba a LB at LM to play us. Now of course were not a top country but when we play guatemala or probably the next match Costa rica, johnson will still be a LB. It only took Osorio a few months to figure out his team. Jurgen in 4 yrs is still lost. Oh and that fight i was talking about... coincedently weve lost it under Jurgen too.
Going back to the defense. Do we not trust these "top league players"? Yes you want your team to defend as a whole and support them when they can but not to the point where we have 0 attack. Last point is why do we look like we cant pass simple balls at times?

Pay attention to how costa rica and Paraguay play colombia. Tactically theyll prob handle them and cuadrado better. Might still lose but i think ill be a much better performance than what we put out. Just note this isnt just the last match but jurgen tenure as a whole is so discouraging and yet its becuase we dont have enough talent according to him.

My point of all these is trying to understand why this team cant take a further forward. Whether you agree or disagree that its jurgen not.


But we didn't do this against Colombia.

I agree we generally have tried to hide and absorb rather than take the game. Everyone was upset about the game, this wasn't Usa vs Ghana. It didn't look like Rocky vs (insert boxing villain), he punched, just our punches were nerfed by poor technique. I'm sorry to be so harsh on Zardes, but the touches Pulisic took and Zardes took are LIGHT YEARS different. I'm sorry, they're just not the same player technically.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #5
Monday June 6, 2016 3:35pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
Costa Rica is going to defend and try to hit on the counter with their attacking guys. The only difference is Costa Rica has guys like Joel Campbell to hit in the attack. He is miles better than anything we have up top, Ruiz is better too.

The problem with the USA isn't having good players or depth. It's we don't have any World Class talent in the attacking third.

I mean our best attacking player this club season played in 2 Bundesliga. You guys really think we should be attacking like that?

You really comparing our roster to Chicharito, Campbell, etc?

It's not our defense or trusting them. It's we don't have the guys going forward (YET) to be able to play attacking football against the best teams like Colombia.

Seriously Costa Rica has attackers starting in La Liga, Portugal, and Arsenal. Compared to MLS and 2 Bundesliga.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
Jzaval01
Post #6
Monday June 6, 2016 4:24pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,315
We have 3 bundesliga attackers on this team... fabian johnson and wood (new) and pulisic. We in reality have 5... iceman, and Joe Gyau but thanks to our good luck they are injured just like half our team. Terrance boyd is another.

I wouldnt take jimenez, reyes or moreno i mean it would be good depth but brook and cameron are excellent CB starters in top leagues. I would agree on Guardado, hernandez, dos santos, vela because those guys are very technical something we continue to lack.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #7
Monday June 6, 2016 6:56pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
Original post from Jzaval01

We have 3 bundesliga attackers on this team... fabian johnson and wood (new) and pulisic. We in reality have 5... iceman, and Joe Gyau but thanks to our good luck they are injured just like half our team. Terrance boyd is another.

I wouldnt take jimenez, reyes or moreno i mean it would be good depth but brook and cameron are excellent CB starters in top leagues. I would agree on Guardado, hernandez, dos santos, vela because those guys are very technical something we continue to lack.


We have 1 Guy who starts in Bundesliga in attack in 2015-16. ONE.
You really want to compare that to Costa Rica or most anyone else?

How many CBs we have and Defenders we have is irrelevant in talking about having a sufficient attack. We just don't have those players to try and play that way.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
goods
Post #8
Monday June 6, 2016 7:03pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 563
I also think CCV, Palmer-Brown, and Miazga will be better than anything Mexico will have across the backline.

Hernandez is a solid player, however he has proven without proper distribution he gets lost. Dos Santos is fun to watch but if pushed around gets frustrated and disappears or over tries. Vela is past his time.

Guardado and Bradley are the same guy to me. I found it interesting how both Bradley and him both had brutal games. Yeah Guardado had that wonderful pass leading to the own goal but he was giving them away as if Uruguay was in green.

I do not feel as if there is this huge gap right now. To me the biggest issue is that our youth is a year or two behind.

Kitchen will be a huge plus to this team. Morris and Pulisic will both have speed Mexico is lacking in the back. I am not concerned about this as much as others. We have those types of players coming.

Dave
Post #9
Monday June 6, 2016 7:14pm

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 1,006
@Jzaval01 - When you look at the US Squad and player pool it is clear that we have a lack of quality attacking talent. When our 3 best attacking options are a 33 yr old coming to the end of his career (Dempsey), a 23 yr old just breaking into a top league (Wood), and a 17 yr old kid who just started his professional career (Pulisic) there isn't much we can really expect from our attack. It doesn't help that much of the other attacking talent we do have has been sidelined with injuries (Jozy, Johannsson, Rubin, etc).
Most of us fans wish that there was a way to get Fabian further up the field and wished that there were another quality option at LB that would allow this, but at this time there isn't. Do I wish that JK had brought Villafana....Yes. But since he didn't and the remaining options, for this tournament, are Besler, Castillo, or Orozco than its better to play Fabian at LB than be completely over-run on the left side. Now after the tournament if Villafana, Shea, or someone else can emerge and allow Fabian to be further up field that would be great.
The good news is that we do have a number of quality young players who are coming up through the ranks who should be able to drastically improve the team in the not too distant future (2 yrs). They just need a bit more time and experience before they are ready to really contribute to Sr. National Team.
Attackers: Gyau, Perez, Wright, Kiesewetter, Agudelo
Midfielders: Acosta, Hyndman, Senora, Canouse, Stanko, Zelalem
Defenders: Miazga, CCV, EPB, Payne, Vincent, Olosunde, Fossey

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #10
Monday June 6, 2016 7:48pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
The problem isn't the future. The problem as I have said before is right now.

We have a generation that we are in right now that just isn't that quality and lacks depth.

The old generation that go us to this point his mostly retired and/or over age (Dempsey, Jones) and not good anymore.

The young talent hasn't taken hold yet (still time, still young).

The guys who's time it is, is RIGHT NOW, just aren't that quality.

Altidore is always hurt
Bradley has been played out of position most of his career and is inconsistent since he went to MLS. (sorry it's true)
Bedoya is solid when played at CM, inconsistent as a Winger
Cameron is solid when played at CB, inconsistent as a RB
Gonzalez and Besler are ok players, but nothing to write home about as International quality
FabJo is very quality, but is forced to play out of position since we have no good LBs.

outside of that this generation has produced very little. Nguyen, Shea, Adu, Sacha, Benny, etc. They are either big time busts or just not quality International players but good club players (and anything in between).

Just a generation that isn't that quality. We are bidding time right now until this younger generation can hopefully step up. But we can't just give them the reigns, they have to take it. I do appreciate that from JK. He's making them earn it, not just giving it to them.

They will be better for it in the end as will the USMNT overall will be.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
goods
Post #11
Monday June 6, 2016 8:44pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 563
I agree about this generation. I would also put the lost careers of Gatt, Holden, and maybe Boyd. Johanssen could have really fit into this group but just cannot stay healthy either. Just think of this starting 11 had they all stayed healthy:

Wood Johanssen
Gatt Holden Gyau
Bradley
Johnson Brooks Cameron Yedlin
Guzan

Subs of Dempsey, Nagbe, Pulisic, Zardes, Jones, Besler, Birnbaum, Bedoya

That line up would have made this team look much much different. The speed would have been crazy on the wings. But Injuries are injuries and you need the players behind them to step up.

One player, if he could have just had the right mental make up and gotten out of his own way, who could have changed everything was Adu. He owned the 2011 Gold Cup nobody had an answer for him when Bradley benched Landon for him. The US just has never had a player with his skill set of distribution.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #12
Monday June 6, 2016 9:48pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
Adu hurts.
I know it's ONE player. But one player can make a difference.
Especially when it's the USA. We have a LOT of solid players. A LOT. We have some great defenders. We have some 8's that can play on any level. But we don't have that attacking threat. So if we were to ever have that attacking threat. A guy like Messi, Neymar, etc. That can create on a World Class level (or close to it) for himself and for others. It will be a game changer.

You saw how much better of a team we were when Donovan and Dempsey were in their prime. Our back 4 (as a whole) and midfield and FW's were sub-par for a International team. Some were way out of place. But we FOUGHT and those guys pulled out some amazing victories for us.

You put Donovan and Dempsey in their prime on the wings with finishers like Wood, and a back 4 like we have now, and we would be a very dangerous team.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
admsghs27
Post #13
Monday June 6, 2016 9:58pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Mexico has way better depth than us. A lot of their players that could of made the roster are on the Olympic squad. I mean they had like 10 players play champs league this year while we had 1 in fabian Johnson that's it. And they also have really good players in liga mx which is a top 6 league in the world in my opinion

dunlopp9987
Post #14
Monday June 6, 2016 10:11pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 2,642
Original post from admsghs27

Mexico has way better depth than us. A lot of their players that could of made the roster are on the Olympic squad. I mean they had like 10 players play champs league this year while we had 1 in fabian Johnson that's it. And they also have really good players in liga mx which is a top 6 league in the world in my opinion


Noooooope. Liga MX is not better than the Eredivisie.
COYB!!
goods
Post #15
Monday June 6, 2016 10:24pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 563
Minus another stupid brain fart our u 23 had a real shot at being medalist at the Olympics this year. That team was as good as any especially when some of the unreleased players were to be included.

,,,

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