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dolcem
Post #136
Thursday July 7, 2016 10:15pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,802
I find it funny that a lot of people try to argue that the '06 World Cup was completely due to Jogi Low and that Klinsmann somehow didn't have a hand in it. Low has had much better squads than Klinsmann did yet has only won one of five tournaments, only making it to the finals in two. This is despite the fact that Germany has been on a completely different level than the rest of the world except for Spain (who played poorly in the past two tournaments). And let's not forget Low was a complete unknown when Klinsmann picked him. This isn't to take away from Low's achievements, nor argue that he's not a better manager than Klinsmann...but people need to remember that it's silly to be quibbling over the credentials of someone whose CV is far, far impressive than anyone else who'd be interested in coaching the USNT.

Original post from Live490

Iniesta is better than both and should go down as the best ever. Won world cup. An euro. And everything with Barca. Two ballon d ors were gifted to messi that should have been iniestas'.


Except that anyone who actually watched Barcelona play a lot knows that Messi has always been the best on the team without a doubt. Iniesta is a phenomenal player but never was at Messi's level.
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admsghs27
Post #137
Thursday July 7, 2016 10:27pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Argentina has one of the best defenses in the world. They were voted the best defense in copa America and had one of the top ones in the last WC. They allow very few goals in tournaments.

BG6
Post #138
Friday July 8, 2016 1:13am

Joined May 2014
Total Posts: 80
Original post from dolcem

Except that anyone who actually watched Barcelona play a lot knows that Messi has always been the best on the team without a doubt. Iniesta is a phenomenal player but never was at Messi's level.

I'd also argue strongly that Xavi in his prime was better than Iniesta and a bigger component of Spain and Barca success.

Live490
Texas
Post #139
Friday July 8, 2016 1:40am

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 1,138
Yeah Dolce youre right.. you can plug in any great player instead of messi in those Barca squads, and i dont think anyone would make a difference like him. Maybe just Ronaldinho?

dolcem
Post #140
Monday July 11, 2016 12:00am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,802
Really disappointed. France deserved it more than Portugal, and with the terrorist attacks and hosting the tournament and everything, it would have been great for the French people to get to celebrate a win. And they beat the best team (Germany). Portugal, on the other hand, was extremely poor this tournament. The new format is terrible...you should not be able to advance without winning. Only two our of four teams should advance from a round robin group.

Lol at the people though who tried to dismiss our World Cup performance against Portugal in 2014 because "Portugal is nothing without Ronaldo." They played some of their best soccer of the tournament tonight (and against the toughest opposition they faced by far) without him. Portugal is a great team. They have enough quality that even when they play poorly, they still get results. They have only been eliminated by a finalist in every tournament since 2004 (and the same went for the Euro '00 team too I think). we don't have any players that would make Portugal's squad. It's ridiculous to think that getting a result against a team of that caliber is huge.

Original post from admsghs27

I think if Ronaldo wins the final he can be considered better than Messi. No doubt a superstar winning a title for their cpuntry is much bigger than what you win club wise.


So, you think Ronaldo is better than Messi?

Original post from admsghs27

Argentina has one of the best defenses in the world. They were voted the best defense in copa America and had one of the top ones in the last WC. They allow very few goals in tournaments.


That's because they play fairly conservatively and have such good attacking players that they control games.

Original post from BG6

I'd also argue strongly that Xavi in his prime was better than Iniesta and a bigger component of Spain and Barca success.


If I have a son his middle name might be Xavi. He was the heart and soul of Barca and Spain, even more so than Iniesta. But it's comparing apples and oranges. They are two different types of players...Iniesta is much more of an attacking player.

Original post from Live490

Yeah Dolce youre right.. you can plug in any great player instead of messi in those Barca squads, and i dont think anyone would make a difference like him. Maybe just Ronaldinho?


Ronaldinho on his best day may have been better than Messi but Messi has been infinitely more consistent. He has been the best player in the world bar none for almost a decade. He just has way more drive than Dinho ever did.
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2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #141
Monday July 11, 2016 1:51am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,838
Original post from dolcem

Really disappointed. France deserved it more than Portugal, and with the terrorist attacks and hosting the tournament and everything, it would have been great for the French people to get to celebrate a win. And they beat the best team (Germany). Portugal, on the other hand, was extremely poor this tournament. The new format is terrible...you should not be able to advance without winning. Only two our of four teams should advance from a round robin group.

Lol at the people though who tried to dismiss our World Cup performance against Portugal in 2014 because "Portugal is nothing without Ronaldo." They played some of their best soccer of the tournament tonight (and against the toughest opposition they faced by far) without him. Portugal is a great team. They have enough quality that even when they play poorly, they still get results. They have only been eliminated by a finalist in every tournament since 2004 (and the same went for the Euro '00 team too I think). we don't have any players that would make Portugal's squad. It's ridiculous to think that getting a result against a team of that caliber is huge.

So, you think Ronaldo is better than Messi?

That's because they play fairly conservatively and have such good attacking players that they control games.

If I have a son his middle name might be Xavi. He was the heart and soul of Barca and Spain, even more so than Iniesta. But it's comparing apples and oranges. They are two different types of players...Iniesta is much more of an attacking player.

Ronaldinho on his best day may have been better than Messi but Messi has been infinitely more consistent. He has been the best player in the world bar none for almost a decade. He just has way more drive than Dinho ever did.


Why did France deserve it more? Based on what?

EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #142
Monday July 11, 2016 4:08am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,013
Eh Portugal deserves it because they won. Easy as that. The new format does suck but they made the best of it.

They've always been crazy consistent in the Euros. After his prime mortal Ronaldo. Nani. Pepe. That kid Renato Sanches. This team was so terrible in the World Cup.

Crazy stuff. Tournaments are fickle and they played a defensive style for that worked.

dolcem
Post #143
Monday July 11, 2016 2:00pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,802
Original post from 2tone

Why did France deserve it more? Based on what?


They were the better team, in the tournament and in that game.

I don't know about you but in any sport, I always like to see the best team win.
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TheTruth
Post #144
Monday July 11, 2016 2:39pm

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 950
I wouldn't crush anyone who said France "deserved" it, but I'd say Portugal deserved it since they got the win.

MSantoine
Post #145
Monday July 11, 2016 3:36pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Portugal deserved it as much as Greece did in 2004.

Portugal clearly wasnt the best team. They scored 7 regulation goals in 7 games. Won one game in 90'.

I cant recall a luckier team in a tourney then Portugal. Advance to knockout round as 3rd best 3rd place tea (advanced on goal differntial only). Then get the best possible draw in knockout round. Avoid Germnay, Spain, England, Belgium, Italy. Should have lost to Croatia (Croatia had a sitter that they missed and Portugal converted on that counter). France was clearly the better team yesterday (Griezzman missing that header. Grignac hitting the post and somehow it not going in, and not only not go in but miss griezzman who was in the perfect spot for the rebound)

But thats the life of a tournement. A win is a win. In college basketball the best team of the year probably only wins the title 30-40% of the time. No different in any tournement. Thats why its so hard to win the World Cup. You need a good team and lots of luck. Portugal was good, not great, and had extra luck on their side this year.

Know Nothing
Post #146
Monday July 11, 2016 4:38pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,475
Original post from MSantoine

I cant recall a luckier team in a tourney then Portugal.


Well, the US at the 2009 Confederations Cup would give it a run for the money! Lose 2 of your 3 group games and advance only because you scored one more goal than Italy.

Score on your only two shots in the semis and lead Brazil at the half.

Rey Regicide
Post #147
Monday July 11, 2016 6:57pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
I'm cool with saying Portugal deserved to win. They devised a plan, executed it, and got lucky at times when they needed it. You need luck to win. France didn't have it on their side, esp with Gignac's beauty of a turn and guessing right on the shoot, just short on execution.

But I'm reading best 11 was theirs too, this is weird, they Clearly didn't play great. I mean the team that deserved to win it won it, so you don't need to have another competition or selection to bestow it upon anyone else, but then to say that individually those players were better. Come on, there's a reason we're having this argument in the first place.

MSantoine
Post #148
Tuesday July 12, 2016 11:11am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from Know Nothing

Well, the US at the 2009 Confederations Cup would give it a run for the money! Lose 2 of your 3 group games and advance only because you scored one more goal than Italy.

Score on your only two shots in the semis and lead Brazil at the half.


Sure advancing despite losing 2 of 3 games was lucky. But at least they won one game (Portugal didnt) and completely dominated Egypt (something Portugal didnt do). They only took two shots against Spain because they scored early. They still scored two goals against a team that was arguably the best of all time. And how is their luck in scoring 2 goals against Brazil? USA scored 8 goals in 3 games in that stretch. Portugal scored 7 regulation goals all tourney.

admsghs27
Post #149
Friday July 15, 2016 1:43am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
I think Boca makes the Final. Game on FS2.. What an atmosphere. .. Americans are surprised lol..

admsghs27
Post #150
Friday July 15, 2016 2:58am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
Wooow valle leads. . If they win it all it will be much bigger than what leicester did.. Amazing! !!!!!

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