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Rey Regicide
Post #16
Monday May 23, 2016 12:09pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,965
Original post from cleancutimage

If he wants to play for Arsenal any time soon, he has to dominate the SPL next year if he goes back to Rangers. Create a boat load of chances and get the occasional goal(something he hasn't shown he can do). I think he has to be around the league lead in assists, score 5 goals or so, and just be a menace to defenses to have a chance to make the first team for Arsenal in 2017-18.


So you want him playing winger then? Because these guys don't make the diagonal runs into the box, most of their style is predicated on wing play crossing in or beating your guy 1 v 1.... that guy on the right.

Tavernier is a mediocre talent. He destroyed the league last year. He is not getting a contract at Arsenal.

Me you and Steve Nash are playing pickup against Blaise (who's 6 3 by the way so he guards Nash) 2tone and admsgh27. How many assists do you think Nash picks up?

Now, how many shots does he hit in Blaise's face tho? And how many times does he turn the ball over, because he lost it to Blaise not because he wanted to force passes to us noobs?

cleancutimage
Post #17
Monday May 23, 2016 5:01pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,197
Like I said, GZ will have to dominate the SPL if he wants to sniff the Arsenal first team any time soon.

skangles
DC
Post #18
Monday May 23, 2016 9:48pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,293
The most recent Planet Futbol podcast is a panel discussion on the state of US soccer facilitated by AO with Jimmy Conrad, Grant Wahl, Kristine Lilly and Tab Ramos.

Tab said that Gedion has the best touch that he's seen at the youth level and then he qualified that statement by saying over the last 5 cycles.

He had a lot of praise for Danny Acosta and flagged Ebobisse and Sabbi as players to watch. I don't know much about them so it will be interesting to zero in on them over this cycle

cleancutimage
Post #19
Tuesday May 24, 2016 2:23am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,197
Original post from skangles

The most recent Planet Futbol podcast is a panel discussion on the state of US soccer facilitated by AO with Jimmy Conrad, Grant Wahl, Kristine Lilly and Tab Ramos.

Tab said that Gedion has the best touch that he's seen at the youth level and then he qualified that statement by saying over the last 5 cycles.


Key words: youth level, he has to show and prove now at the professional level. He is still young but there has been plenty of kids his age playing at a higher level. Just have to look as far as Pulisic.

Rey Regicide
Post #20
Tuesday May 24, 2016 2:08pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,965
I thought he showed it at Rangers. Rangers fans were looking for a no. 10. He's not a 10. He's a Nagbe. Want to hear about what people were saying about Nagbe? Prior to his concerted effort to make more goals and assists?

That he needs to start scoring goals. Ummmmm No... not really, for the USMNT I will with great pleasure take a midfielder that simply doesn't turn the ball over. Hell yea I'd take that in a heart beat, please!

He needs to give it to Dempsey so that HE can turn the ball over in the attacking third...and not be scrutinized...

rightfully so, he's a risk taker, dude scores goals

Or to our wings making overlapping runs, or to our forwards making smart runs (our forwards don't make smart runs, neither does Rangers tho, it's mostly give it to wings and hope they cross it well enough to get a header over a smaller unsuspecting defender ).

1. I sensed despair in the response, truthfully honestly, we all work: this is like a respite from the doldrums of reality... so i'm sorry.. i like the philosophical discussions on tactics/techniques ... i'm really not trying to aggravate, just a belief I'm trying to get across - Wenger was not at all concerned with analysis that he wasn't a creative element, Wenger just wanted to see him in a sandbox that is the Ibrox, against more physical opponents. I think Wenger liked what he saw, I interpret what he's said as "your new sandbox now is arsenal training ground preseason with live ammo, how you fire shots with the first team determines whether or not you start this year, because I liked how I saw you handle the physicality" .. it's a theory

2. it's literally electronic bits, and so long as non of it's inflammatory or hostile.. it's still just 1010101's
'
People see a bevy of midfield options

I don't see them

All I see who have shown to be comfortable in tight spots making quick decisions is

Cameron
Beckerman honestly, that's it

And those are CDM's, and in fairness to the rest of the midfielders, they're comfortable because they understand the limited role, and skill set. They aren't going to try to dribble past 3 or 4 dudes in order to start an attack (perry kitchen, what are you doing vs PR? I know they're noobs, but you wouldn't ordinarily try that stuff, why now? look at how emerson played his position... see him put his foot on the ball and survey the landscape of bus-lines and counter attacking mindsets?)

Zusi is not comfortable in a dogfight
Bedoya is not comfortable in a dogfight
def not Zardes
not Yedlin, those two prefer to be racing up and down the wings

Potential heresy but:
Bradley is NOT comfortable in a dogfight in the middle, it's the reason why his dad tried to save him from it by putting him a CDM in our famed empty bucket next to an Edu or Clark or Maestroeni .. .it's the reason Klinsmann tried to get him away from high press, it get him behind that high midfield line that we would have seen from opponents wanting to press the crap out of us... it worked in the first half of mexico.. then mexico went to two CDM's and played Bradley out of that game, i'm talking about the 2-2 game. warmup with Julian Green heading the ball back into our defensive line.

That's not a 10 position, that's the Lampard Gerrard "if i'm in trouble just knock it forward or get into the box make plays happen" position. "i'm free" position. Jones is actually more like Bradley.. he also doesn't want it in a battle of quick reflexes, quick passes, quick thinking... he wants to use his athleticism (jones case his bigger frame, Bradley endurance)... so we're left with pegging either Jones or Bradley as the cdm, Bradley or Jones as the mad man mad lion in the middle of the field racing up and down...and a connective hub between them that literally directs the midfield.. ala Nagbe last night... no, that Jones/Bradley position is not called a no. 10.

Zelalem is that type of dude; like Nagbe; not a 10

Rey Regicide
Post #21
Tuesday May 24, 2016 2:12pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,965
sorry for the long drawn out but it hits me if Nagbe DOES play the no. 10 for us going forward

because he's that skilled

he opens up that position for the hyndman's the zelalem's within 2 to 3 years...

or gdamit, hopefully next year!

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #22
Tuesday May 24, 2016 3:48pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
Zelalem and Yedlin shouldn't be listed in that. They are wide players. Speed players. They don't need to be in a dog fight. They need to outrace people and stretch the defenses. Their job is to make things THINNER inside, not go inside and draw more people inside for a dogfight.

Why I've always said Bradley plays much better when he has speedy guys stretching the defense. Gives him more room to operate. You give him space to make those long runs and passes then he is terrific. But you start closing in on him and forcing him to dribble and pass in space and do 1-2 combo's etc. Suddenly he is a LOT less effective.

Jones is similar to, but I think his skill level is slightly more than Bradley's.

Bedoya on the wing and Bradley/Jones inside only works if you have fullbacks with pace that can stretch the defense. Actually works quite well for Bedoya who likes to cut in, and is a work horse and tracks back and can cover for a Fullback that gets caught up field. Why a Bedoya/Yedlin pairing on the right will work well.

But we'll need a real attacking threat on the left side as well. Especially one with some speed.
I don't think Pulisic will start, but he will be subbed on and the game will open up considerably once he comes on. His attacking threat will open it up inside.

If Jones and Bradley can play like they did last time out together than a flat 4-4-2 works very well. If not then it will fail.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
Rey Regicide
Post #23
Tuesday May 24, 2016 3:50pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,965
you know i think abck to the Netherland Game and the German game and the thing that I remember is Bradley making those runs

generally happens when the other team decides to put a foot on our neck and vacating the space between the defensive line and attacking front. which usually backfires on them because

SURPRISE!!!

we're decent with athleticism

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #24
Tuesday May 24, 2016 4:52pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
yep give Bradley space and he is much more efficient and effective. Why especially against the CONCACAF opponents having guys who can stretch the opposing team (that like to park the bus) works so much better for us.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
tylercocinas
Post #25
Wednesday May 25, 2016 4:07am

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,110
Original post from USAGunner

Zelalem and Yedlin shouldn't be listed in that. They are wide players. Speed players. They don't need to be in a dog fight. They need to outrace people and stretch the defenses. Their job is to make things THINNER inside, not go inside and draw more people inside for a dogfight.


Ehhh, for me Zelalem is not best out wide and isnt the speed demon that Yedlin is. Hes a CM.

TheTruth
Post #26
Wednesday May 25, 2016 5:17am

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 950
Yikes, there's been some crap spewed in some of the last several posts.

Rey Regicide
Post #27
Wednesday May 25, 2016 12:07pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,965
Original post from tylercocinas

Ehhh, for me Zelalem is not best out wide and isnt the speed demon that Yedlin is. Hes a CM.


I feel as though he might have meant Zardes

Rey Regicide
Post #28
Wednesday May 25, 2016 12:42pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,965
Original post from TheTruth

Yikes, there's been some crap spewed in some of the last several posts.


I know you've been unhappy with my posts dude.

I have to let you know, half the time I'm not happy with myself, the other half my wife isn't.

What role should I take? Dissing posters and their knowledge base? Instead of trying to put out ideas to think about, philosophically? Theories to mull over? Did you think my assessment of Pulisic and him being ready for starting on the USMNT, that Klopp would want to take him away from Borussia Dortmund last year as crap?

I really think Zelalem is closer to offering us national team service than people think. I DO agree that he needs to start for a team in a league of decent competition. So he's NOT worthy of a callup to a tournament of merit for our National Team. I think Arsenal first team would be an incredible task for him to break into, they DO have talent.

I don't feel that Rangers episode was bad. He was injured and still managed to get 21 games. I don't think anyone, especially the Arsenal brass, def not the USA coaching tree, questions his dribbling, vision, anything offensive really. What they are wondering, particularly Arsenal, is can he patrol the midfield with decent amount of work rate, can he ward off big guys... can his slight frame be elusive enough can he be crafty enough?

I don't feel like if you are a talent like Zelalem that you need to be leading the league in scoring or assists. Those tangos need dance partners... Either that or you are being billed as a Maradona and you bring your own arsenal, haha pun intended!!!

Zelalem was never given that archetype.

He is "Pirlo" Underwhelming athletically, deep lying play-maker.

Pirlo's work with NYCFC isn't indicative of the class of player he is. Pirlo is throwing the style of the MLS under the bus. You either take that as an excuse, or an honest evaluative assessment from a sporting intellectual who never relied on athleticism (like these guys...Henry, Drogba, Luke Rodgers) and the reasons why our ball doesn't translate well in international arenas.

I give two craps what Conte thinks with regards to Pirlo. Pirlo is still better than 80 percent of his team. He wants to blame him for going halfway around the world that's one thing, travel is a bitch, and taking a 37 year old in a reputedly lesser league and under-performing is grounds for losing your job, and media scathing.

But don't tell me Giacherrini is better than Andrea in midfield for him.

I'm not proving that Zelalem is a beast and needs to start for Arsenal, or that he's the level of Pirlo (which by the way some trigger happy Rangers fans were happy to state when they were winning games with him in the lineup) that's not how proving stuff works (science background) I'm disproving the absolute case that because he wasn't a league leader or an attacking that he should be viewed as a bust, and that Wenger isn't going to give him a chance...you need LESS evidence to disprove that absolute.

By the way, that last bit, is the reason why certain fans of Arsenal are up in arms with Wenger, because he would dally around with unproven talent, like USAgunner dude said with Gnarby and the other guys, I think Sonogo right?

Instead of shopping for someone that would just take Zelalem and his next 3 superior's job away from them.

So no, I don't think I'm providing theories without evidence. And that's all they are really.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #29
Wednesday May 25, 2016 3:20pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
Original post from Rey Regicide

I feel as though he might have meant Zardes


Yes I meant Zardes. Zelalem is far from a speed player.

While Zelalem is not ready for Arsenal first team minutes, he is not far at all from seeing minutes with the USMNT. If we had more players that were technically proficient and tactically proficient I could make the case that he is ready. But as of right now against the Concacaf competition and with the make-up of our team the way it is, while his skills might be needed, they would be out of place. And with his frame and playing style he would be bullied and pushed around in the Concacaf, he would need other people that could play with him in order to be effective right now.

As far as him playing with Arsenal. If anyone thinks that Wenger really cares about stats in the end, really don't have a clue. He is a process guy. HOW you got somewhere and what you did on each play is way more important than the final result to him. He did not care one bit about how many assists or goals Zelalem got for Rangers. It was all about the experience, and learning from it. Learning how to play professionally, learning how to deal with guys trying to push you around, etc. Wenger will take him during the pre-season give him plenty of opportunities to see if he is ready for Arsenal first team. The test will be how he plays in their pre-season games. If he looks out of place (again his stats won't matter) then he will be loaned again (if he still looks out of place the next off-season he will be sold) to a tougher league. If he looks likes he belongs but he knows there is going to be almost no playing time to give him then he will loan him to a Good Championship or an EPL team. If he looks like he belongs and will get Playing time, then he'll stay.

I hope it's one of the later two. He looks like he belongs and best case is he looks so good that no matter what other talent Arsenal has he will play. But if he looks like he belongs and he's still not quite up to Arsenal standards and is loaned to a EPL or Good Championship team then that is still a good sign.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
Rey Regicide
Post #30
Wednesday May 25, 2016 4:16pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,965
have we ever seen the USA even in training do a rondo?

like 2 v 5 ?

I feel like that should be a required mandate from USSF to all MLS teams and their academies

Just get kids to do 1 touch exercise before you teach them anything, for like an hour.

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