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Know Nothing
Post #31
Thursday June 2, 2016 8:34pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,702
Original post from USAGunner

Why do we need to try anyone else besides Bradley at the 6?


For the simple reason that you always want to try and play your best XI against the team you are facing.

Bradley at the present moment is our best #8 and our best #6. Because the talent is deeper in the #8 pool it makes perfect sense to make Bradley the #6...and
I do think Bradley will be our #6 for the next two years but you do need a Plan B (Being and Arsenal supporter you may not be aware of that concept) Players get injured...look how we struggled when Bradley sprained his ankle pre-match in Costa Rica. It makes sense at the very least to plan for this possibility by trying others at the #6 and getting them familiar with the personnel so there is the possibility of a seamless integration.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #32
Thursday June 2, 2016 9:56pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
Original post from Know Nothing

For the simple reason that you always want to try and play your best XI against the team you are facing.

Bradley at the present moment is our best #8 and our best #6. Because the talent is deeper in the #8 pool it makes perfect sense to make Bradley the #6...and
I do think Bradley will be our #6 for the next two years but you do need a Plan B (Being and Arsenal supporter you may not be aware of that concept) Players get injured...look how we struggled when Bradley sprained his ankle pre-match in Costa Rica. It makes sense at the very least to plan for this possibility by trying others at the #6 and getting them familiar with the personnel so there is the possibility of a seamless integration.


A Plan B is fine. But the tone of your other comments weren't about a plan B but about someone else being our #6 (Saying he isn't set in stone for 2018, etc).

I would also argue against Bradley being our best #8. I think Jones has been better as a #8 the last 4 years, and still is. I think Bedoya as an 8 is just as good or better than Bradley as an 8 (Bedoya starts and does extremely well in France as an 8, and has played as an 8 2x for the USMNT and done very well there for us), I'd also say Nagbe is probably as good or better than Bradley as an 8. All of those are just as good options as Bradley at the 8.
On the other hand there is no one in our pool right now that is better than Bradley as a 6. There just isn't. All of the good stuff we remember from Bradley and his stellar performances as a youngster, came with him being more of a 6 than an 8.

Realistically right now we have 4 international caliber #8's (Jones, Bedoya, Nagbe, and Bradley).
Right now we have 1 international caliber #6 (Bradley).

Beckerman is not anymore, Cameron is better as a CB, Williams and Morales have played well for club at times, but have never showed it on the international stage that they can hang (Williams plenty of chances, Morales very few). Kitchen, Stanko, and the rest are young and very well could be.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
Know Nothing
Post #33
Thursday June 2, 2016 10:26pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,702
JK is stubborn. He wants MB to be further up the field but realizes that for this tournament he is our best #6. After the Copa others will get their chance at #6 so long as JK is managing the side.

There are still 2 years until the WC, so a lot can happen. My gut tells me MB will not be the #6 by then even if he is the best option.

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #34
Friday June 3, 2016 1:06am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,518
My take on MB as the 6 is the same as I posted awhile back. It looks good against equal or weaker teams, but might not be sufficient against fully loaded top tier teams. I think JK alluded to this recently while answering the "where is MB's best midfield position" He said the opponent would determine the best fit. There might be a match up that might be too much for MB to handle defensively. I like MB as the 6, but I'd like Cameron better there with MB infront of him with Nagbe a little higher up. MB can support both when necessary.

I doubt we see Cameron anywhere but CB for the Copa...by the WC we need Birnbaum or Miazga to come through at RCB. Hell, I'm fine with Birnbaum at RCB right now if Cam is in front of him. But I'm also fine with Besler at LB.

I have no problem with

........................Nagbe........
...............MB.....
..........................Cam............
Besler....Brooks...Birnbaum.....Yeddy

Dave
Post #35
Friday June 3, 2016 2:50am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 1,006
Bradley may not be the best #6 against top tier competition as some here and JK have speculated, but I'd still take him as the #6 over Beckerman. Overall Bradley's strengths (Size, Speed, Athleticism, Distribution) still make him a better fit than Beckermans' strengths (Grit, positioning) for the short term at least.
Once the Copa is over than we can begin looking for a more long term solution for the #6 that would allow Bradley to move further forward. IMO if Birnbaum, Miazga, Alvarado or Carter-Vickers can raise their level of play enough it could allow for Cameron to shift to the CDM role. If a RCB option doesn't emerge than the options to replace Beckerman would be....
Kitchen, Williams, Morales, Canouse, Stanko, Arce

That being said we'll also need to replace the high energy/physical style Jones brings to the #8 role. Bradley can duplicate some of this if he's not playing the #6 roll, otherwise many of the same potential replacements for Beckerman would have to be considered... Nagbe, Williams, Stanko, Trapp

The question to me is what will emerge first.... A solid RCB or one of the many CM options. Whichever it is I hope that it happens sooner rather than latter. As we need either a new starting CDM or RCB before the Hex really gets rolling next year.

bjelks
Post #36
Friday June 3, 2016 3:06am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,366
Morales and Danny Williams are just as strong, faster and more skilled than Bradley. Bradley either needs to be dM or not on the field at all. One thing for sure, nagbe and pullisic have to be on the field.
goalsense
USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #37
Friday June 3, 2016 1:10pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
JK is stubborn, but I think people misplace his stubbornness. When it comes to tournaments that really matter and big tournaments he almost always does whatever gets his best XI on the field at the same time in a formation that best suits them, and he sticks with it.
Like it or not last World Cup that is what we had with Beckerman, Jones, Bradley, Zusi/Bedoya on the field in the midfield. Those were our best guys. Only when they needed a rest did formation and people change.
Right now our best is Jones, Bradley and Bedoya. JK see's Nagbe coming off the bench for now.
Nagbe and Pulisic will be to the Copa what Yedlin was to the WC. Super Sub.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
Know Nothing
Post #38
Friday June 3, 2016 3:43pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,702
Thanks Dave, I forgot about CCV. He is mobile enough and good enough on the ball to potentially be a DM. I recall reading some U21 match reports where he did play the position for Spurs.

hamsamwich
Post #39
Friday June 24, 2016 9:50am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,212
So here sit before the 3rd place game and it appears that Bradley has become the CDM as we inch towards Jürgen's preferred 4-3-3. Or has he?

That last game showed Kyle Beckerman at his finished worse as he air tackled all over the field and looked a step slow. Bradley, however, looks like what he is- a #8 that just isn't quite good enough to play with the best. But he's not a #6.

Going back to the options on the list- our next choice would be Perry Kitchen. Against Colombia I fully expect Bradley to be there while at the same time I would prefer to see Kitchen. Will Perry learn the defensive midfield role in Scotland. I've thought he was excellent as such in MLS- but it's a big step up.

The true wild card for me is if the two young defensive midfielders who moved to Germany (those would be Caleb Stanko and Russell Canouse) can make a step up to their respective Bundesliga first teams and show they have it. Both are on the fringes, but a rise in their play could see either jump into the national team picture quickly.

In the other thread I said Bradley could be replaced by Russia (he won't be probably), but the template is there provided one of the youngsters grabs the opportunity and runs with it. As Bradley looks less dangerous in the attack and more of a defensive midfielder, he pigeonholes himself into the #6 box, where even the veteran presence of Geoff Cameron should be enough to give Jürgen real questions to answer.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #40
Friday June 24, 2016 2:14pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
If anything this tournament proved without a doubt he is a #6 for the USMNT. When in that role he played well. Kept good position, helped with the defense, made good tackles, harrassed attackers, made good long outlet passes. But he struggled when he was moved up into a more advanced role. He struggled when trying to do shorter passes. But the things he does well is #6 things.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
Know Nothing
Post #41
Friday June 24, 2016 3:22pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,702
We keep throwing names out there but my question is what is the job of a "#6" in the USMNT? Is it strictly to protect the backline and make short intelligent passes to get us out of trouble or is it more than that...a deep lying playmaker like a Pirlo type?

MSantoine
Post #42
Friday June 24, 2016 5:49pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from Know Nothing

We keep throwing names out there but my question is what is the job of a "#6" in the USMNT? Is it strictly to protect the backline and make short intelligent passes to get us out of trouble or is it more than that...a deep lying playmaker like a Pirlo type?


I think ultimately as we transition to a real 4-3-3 the role of #6 is collect ball from the backline and get it to the playmakers (nagbe and someone else). Let those guys pick out the wings or forwards. Also should be there to help the CBS stop any quick counters when the fullbacks make their runs

kicksNgiggles10
Birmingham
Post #43
Friday June 24, 2016 6:10pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 572
Original post from MSantoine

I think ultimately as we transition to a real 4-3-3 the role of #6 is collect ball from the backline and get it to the playmakers (nagbe and someone else). Let those guys pick out the wings or forwards. Also should be there to help the CBS stop any quick counters when the fullbacks make their runs

So more like a Lahm or Serge Busquets?

PortCityFan
Louisiana
Post #44
Friday June 24, 2016 8:43pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 206
Original post from MSantoine

I think ultimately as we transition to a real 4-3-3 the role of #6 is collect ball from the backline and get it to the playmakers (nagbe and someone else). Let those guys pick out the wings or forwards. Also should be there to help the CBS stop any quick counters when the fullbacks make their runs

I think at this point with our player pool this is how the #6 should be viewed. We don't have anyone with both the vision AND capabilities to make the pass. How many times did we see a negative ball played from Bradley instead of a ball that could have been sprayed across the field to an advancing Fabian. Or even a simple square ball to a yedlin making a run I think it was against Ecuador where it was played back again to a center back. Sometimes I feel Bradley doesn't have the confidence to hit some of the passes he sees or else he doesn't see them. Pirlo is the perfect combination of both, but how many Pirlos exist out there and how many others has Italy ever produced?

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #45
Friday June 24, 2016 10:14pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,518
It's Cameron guys...he has the speed, athleticism, vision and passing skills.

But after 2018...IMO we don't have anyone that is as well rounded coming up the ranks.

We have athletic fast guys that struggle with inconsistent ability to distribute. Or we have very good distributors that aren't quick enough or athletic enough to defend at a mid to high international level.

We have athletic players like Williams, possibly Alashe or Acosta.

Then we have the other group that might fit the Beckerman profile.
Trapp, Kitchen, Stanko, Cannouse possibly Polster...maybe Hyndman.

Morales is kind of a tweener, but hasn't showed well so far given a few opportunities.

I don't see anybody that covers all the bases yet. And if we're planning to play 4-3-3 we need that deep central mid needs have destroyer defending ability with vision and passing skills.

So we either pick the quickest of the Beckerman profile guys. Or hope one of the athletic destroyers can really improve their decision making and passing skills in the short term.

Who knows, It might turn out to be another converted CB...possibly CCV or EPB.

Currently, it looks like Kitchen has the inside track, but I don't see him being noticeably better than Beckerman...maybe just a tad faster...

Still Cameron for me....

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