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hamsamwich
Post #1
Sunday March 13, 2016 3:59pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,212
Jürgen's favorite player has perhaps been Kyle Beckerman. In fact, the coach cited that as his mistake vs Belgium (playing Cameron instead of Kyle at the #6 to negate Fellaini). Often we've seen a partnership of two box to box mids like Bradley and Jones, Williams, and even attacking players like Diskerud and Bedoya placed further back, ala Arsenal. But when the going has gotten tough, in most important games, we've seen Jürgen go to his old reliable, Kyle B. playing holding midfield.

The Canouse thread got me thinking about this more in depth. It's possible we see Cameron at the #6 throughout the cycle. But who is behind Cameron (at this moment I have Geoff as our starting RCB next to Brooks) at DCM if not Kyle B??? I'm going to try and stick to DM type players, as it's hard to legislate for Jürgen putting Mixx or others like Nagbe there....

The contenders (feel free to add your own I always leave people out):

1. Danny Williams - a box to box player, can definitely function in that DM role.

2. Perry Kitchen - a DCM for real, playing at Hearts may be a sidestep but it's a step.

3. Alfredo Morales - again, more of a box to box player. I love his aggression.

4. Wil Trapp - a USSF favorite and good solid player and leader. Enjoy watching him play.

5. Kellyn Acosta - I like everything about Acosta and rate him very highly. My choice.

6. Russell Canouse - a dedicated #6 like Kitchen. Also a leader on and off the field.

7. Caleb Stanko - versatile player, really has a chance to play Bundesliga next year.

8. Matt Polster - also a versatile player, the #6 is his best spot from what I've seen.

9. Fatai Alashe - more of a box to box player, has been good all 5 times I've seen him play.

10. Michael Bradley - will the rise of the talented attackers push Bradley further back and keep the clock stopped on the young players I've listed above??? If a Bradley-Nagbe or other partnership were pursued, Bradley could be that guy to drop back a little. He's such a box to box player, and ever since he scored all those goals at Heerenveen, he has seen himself closer to where Jürgen plays him (quasi #10), than as the dropped back, holding mid. It's why I listed this last even though it's very possible.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #2
Sunday March 13, 2016 4:05pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,452
For me Bradley is the leading contender to be the DM.

Dave
Post #3
Sunday March 13, 2016 7:41pm

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 1,003
I really believe that the concept of static CMs (#6 & #10) is being replaced with more well rounded #8's. 8's can have leaning towards the 6 or 10, but they tend to be more complete players contributing at both ends of the field. IMO a lot depends on what the formation is.
I'd say that the top CMs in our pool are as follows:
Defensive 8's: Bradley, Cameron, Williams, Morales, Kitchen, Canouse, Trapp, Stanko, Polster
Attacking 8's: Nagbe, Nguyen, Bradley, Diskerud, Hyndman, Zelalem, Gil, Delgado...Potentially Pulisic

I don't see Acosta as being a CM for the USMNT although he plays there for Dallas. IMO his international future is at outside back for the US. I haven't seen much of Alashe, but what I have seen has not really impressed me.

I have a feeling that where these players rank will be changing quickly over the next year or so. A number of the young players are on the cusp of breaking out which will put a lot of pressure on those currently above them to perform well. Guys like Canouse, Hyndman, Zelalem, Delgado, & Pulisic look like they may leap ahead quickly.

camparkinson
Post #4
Sunday March 13, 2016 7:42pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 334
I vote Bradley if we're playing with a legit #6 in the 442 diamond set up.

Having said that, I prefer the 4231 formation so we could have two deeper CM's rather than just one sole #6 style in which case we should discuss who is playing next to Bradley.

I'd prefer someone who can connect passes. We've seen so many players who can cover a lot of ground but way too many bad passes lead to great chances and goals the other way, I think Trapp is the best passer of the group listed above but I'm just not sure he's ready and does he do enough defensively?

Rey Regicide
Post #5
Monday March 14, 2016 12:52pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
One thing that I maybe overvaluing on KB when he was on was his tackling, he could really tackle and stop someone's progress in a 1 v 1 open space situation. Micheal Bradley not so much with that ability.

I feel that whovever we choose at CDM is not going to be as important as whoever we choose to be a partner to that guy. Nagbe yesterday, while a bit disappointing result fo rthe team, put in ALOT of work in MF. Which he always does, which I've seen Nguyen be at the very least a pest as well.

So I feel that if you put Nagbe, Nguyen and Bradley, with Bradley being the deepest, but also given some freedom to bomb forward

Nagbe is smart enough of a player to cover for that. Nguyen is the most daring of the three so he will be the most indiscipline with regards to positioning and that's fine, that's desired.

3 3 4, =D just one more time, Sam, play it again

hamsamwich
Post #6
Sunday March 27, 2016 2:08pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,212
So we still haven't replaced Beckerman- not in an important game. Mix failed as predicted by many. He's always better as an attacking sub than a starter at CM for me.

We missed Danny Williams the other day I think he has the ability to actually play next to Bradley in our 4-4-2, and perform similar to Jermaine Jones (sorely missed at Guat whatever you all say about him being "done" we needed his aggressiveness and assertiveness).

As for Tuesday, unless he is actually hurt, Kyle Beckerman must start. His role is very important especially as we must win and go for goals. Someone must mind the middle of the field. The Ruiz goal the other night is a perfect example. Bradley just isn't a CDM although he heads that 90% of the time, it was just a mistake. Ruiz showed that old players like Kyle and Wondo have a role to play in these scrappy, CONCACAF matches. The two "old" players should be given a run to get us the result we need. Consistency and trust are two words that are synonymous with Jürgen and his love for Kyle B.- who will start and make a difference Tuesday.

skangles
DC
Post #7
Sunday March 27, 2016 9:36pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,446
We also were sorely missing a player like Beckerman at the U23 level which featured three of the players listed in your first post. It was one game and they're all young. Hopefully at least one out of the three gets there but they have a long way to go.

rainORshine
Post #8
Monday March 28, 2016 12:08am

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 2,097
the question is simply who plays with MB in the center of the park.

williams and morales are the guys who JK should have been grooming - not diskerud, who at this point in his career is nothing more than an average MLS player. (prior to that he was a mediocre nowegian league player, which is even worse)

beyond that the best option is sacha kljestan. in 9 WCQ and gold cup knock-out games US is 7-1-1 when SK starts - including 2-0 v mexico in 2010 WCQ. ALL of those results came before sacha went to europe and did nothing but win league championships (mix won zero) and play champions and europa league as a CM.

(SK plays an attacking position now simply because his skill set is so far above the MLS average)

nagbe and nguyen are only options at the top of a diamond 4, which has never been a good look for US. they are not 'complete' CMs

under JK SK has ZERO starts in WCQ or gold cup so dont say sacha has had a chance under JK with first team. and dont say he was poor under BB. the record speaks for itself. and he was essentially a starter directly before JK was hired - started gold cup semi - BBs second to last game - the last game US won under BB

everyone knows JK lives in his own little fantasy world, where consistent production at club level is only occasionally important in his evaluation process (has michael orozco even seen the field yet in 2016?)

i dont expect most fans to be able to figure it out but for MNT coach to make the judgment than mix diskerud is a strong option to start for US is a complete joke

dont get me wrong, im NOT saying SK should be an automatic starter. Im saying SK being a good option, IF NEEDED is an absolute no-brainer and JKs essentially complete exclusion of sacha since he took over is just one of the prime examples of his complete cluelessness

Jzaval01
Post #9
Monday March 28, 2016 12:21am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,315
and we continue with SK. Dude just put a zip on it and just realize JK wont call him. No point in talking about players that arent there. If Benny Feilhaber isnt called there no way in hell SK is called.

Live490
Texas
Post #10
Monday March 28, 2016 1:32am

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 1,174
I think Dax would have been a great option but a lot of ppl here want someone under 28-29 year old to groom for the next 2 worls cups. The thing is, it's about now. Who can help else now? Someone posted it clearly and i cant remember who, but we will need beckerman to start. He will do the dirty work. The lateral passes no one likes. The distribution. The non flashy stuff. The tackle to cut the advance.

TheTruth
Post #11
Monday March 28, 2016 1:43am

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 950
Dax blows. He's a ginger midget.

hamsamwich
Post #12
Thursday March 31, 2016 3:22am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,212
Proven. The only real heir apparents are Kitchen and then Canouse. A player needs to be consistent and level headed to play CDM, and at this moment my guy Acosta needs work. Too hot headed to play the #6 as of now. Let's see what happens with Kitchen at hearts, or if the real next option is Canouse.

hamsamwich
Post #13
Thursday April 7, 2016 2:30pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,212
The recent qualifiers showed us how much USA relies on Beckerman. Tactics have been discussed that whether it's Shea, Castillo or Fab J on the left and Yedlin right, the fullbacks need to bomb forward to support our attack. As many of us have said and stood by the fact that right now Kyle Beckerman patrolling deep allows our CBs to stay a touch wider and USA can stop the opponent easier than with 2cms only, which exposes our CBs rather than with Kyle B (#6) who protects them. It is time to re-list the true CDM options as I see it:

1. Kyle Beckerman- the veteran, "old reliable".

2. Geoff Cameron- if our CBs were more trustworthy, this could be an option. As it stands now, Cameron look like a must start at RCB during the Copa2016.

3. Perry Kitchen- I don't watch the Scottish league, but it appears he is getting time. Can he make the next step in his career??? I've always been a fan of his, let's see...

4. Russell Canouse- can he earn some time next year with Hoffenheim??? We all hope so.

5. Caleb Stanko- sort of in the same boat as Canouse: both need to breakthrough to the next level in Germany so we can see them against better competition. The talent is there though.

6. The "MLS guys": Acosta, Trapp, Polster, McCarty, etc- Acosta is too hotheaded right now, Trapp is more box to box, Polster is still unpolished as compared to a Perry Kitchen for example, McCarty has been passed by...

*** the others like Wiliams, Morales, Jones, Bradley etc are all of the #8 variety, and it is unnatural for them to play that #6 role, so I put them behind others.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #14
Thursday April 7, 2016 4:22pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
Yeah a True #6 we need desperately to step up in preparation for 2018. We can't take a 500 year old Beckerman to Russia and expect to do much. But if he is our best option..Then he is our best option.

I too think Danny Williams is not a true #6. He reminds me much more of Jermaine Jones than Beckerman. I haven't seen enough of Morales to know about him. But the fact that JK often plays him outwide or other places, tells me he isn't a true #6.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
Dave
Post #15
Thursday April 7, 2016 5:38pm

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 1,003
@hamsamwich, I still think you are reading too much into the situation of a #6 Vs. #8, but regardless of my opinion of that you should still consider Danny Williams as a #6. That is the role he played while in Germany and only recently have his coach at Reading asked him to be more of a #8. I'm sure that he still knows how to play the role of a 6, and so long as he and Bradley don't both go bombing up the field at the same time a Bradley Williams pairing is still viable IMO.
I think that was what was often wrong with the Bradley/Jones pairing....neither would really play the dedicated defense first role which caused them to step on each others toes too often. I don't think Danny would have the same problem.

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