EXTRA TIME
YA POLL
Which USMNT player will make the biggest impact in the group stage of the Gold Cup?
Dom Dwyer
Kenny Saief
Kellyn Acosta
Matt Hedges
Kelyn Rowe
Cristian Roldan
Jorge Villafana
Paul Arriola
YANKS ABROAD LOCKER ROOM
 
USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #16
Friday February 12, 2016 3:59pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,304
Original post from recycledhumans

I can't disagree with anything here, though I think if all 4 of those guys reach their full potential they'll be pretty much interchangeable. Realistically, I see one of the tall guys being paired with a shorter/quicker counterpart. Brooks and Miazga are both 6'4", EPB is 6'1" and CCV is 6 flat. Much in the way the Gooch/Bocanegra pairing worked, one is a little more quick and the other a little more powerful, but both are well-rounded and compliment each other.

But as to KnowNothing's theory/prediction/desire? to see CCV in the CDM spot, I don't see it unless he's going to be a Gattuso-esque destroyer that's only interested in ball winning. Since we have such a deep CM pool, we have enough people that can function well enough as ball winners without sacrificing too much in other departments like playmaking/vision and picking out the right pass. The only way we get a Gattuso is to also have a Pirlo that sees the pitch seemingly from every angle and can put the ball anywhere on it with little to no effort. Until then, we're going to have the box-to-box types with one hanging back and one going forward, as we've done for ages. If one of these young'ns turns out to be that Pirlo, I'm all for having a pitbull in front of the back four that lets the wingbacks play a little higher up.


I'm all for that and agree that if all reach their potential they will essentially be interchangeable. Will be a GOOD problem to have. Being that if all reach their potential that would be 4 World Class CB's we have.

In that case I can entirely see your scenario playing out, which essentially would look like a 5-3-2. With one of the CB's playing a little farther ahead and the other 2 a little wider. The FB's would be guys who are more on the offensive end than defensive end (in terms of responsibility), de facto Midfielders. You would need speedy FBs to do that...amazingly that is what we have...

You would also need 2 more attacking minded Central Midfielders and a box to box type. Which looking at our young guys we will have that.

Horvath
Yedlin - CCV - Brooks - Miazga - Acosta/Payne
Scott - Hyndman - Pulisic
Keiswetter - Morris

oh to dream of even half of those guys reaching their potential.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
Know Nothing
Post #17
Friday February 12, 2016 4:19pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,059
When I said CCV as a holding midfielder it was exactly as a Gattuso type. He has played there with Spurs youth teams.

I envisioned a 4-4-2 diamond (which is close to a 5-3-2

Steffen
Yedlin, Brooks, Miazga, Acosta/Payne
CCV
Hyndman, Scott
Zelalem
Pulisic, Morris

Dave
Post #18
Friday February 12, 2016 6:01pm

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 679
What we all need to remain cognizant of when looking towards the future are the inevitable injuries and dips in form. All players experience these things and we need to be prepared for them. One of our (USMNT) greatest weaknesses/drawbacks has been the lack of quality depth in the team. For the past cycle or 2 we've been able to field a good starting XI, but have run into significant issues whenever we've had to adjust to an injury of a starter (CD9, Gooch, Jozy, Bradley, etc-). Backups are never as good as the preferred starter (experience, chemistry, familiarity, etc-), but we need to close the gap talent wise between the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd string players. Therefore, regardless of how you rate them individually having 4 CB's with such quality & interchangeability bodes well for the future. And why I would not advocate for using one them in a different position unless we had 2 others equally as good waiting in the wings.

Looking towards the future, IF everyone stays healthy and continues to develop, we appear to have some very promising options in almost every central position (GK, CB, CM, Forward). Where it currently appears we are thin/weak is in wide positions (Outside Back & Wide Midfield). Preferably we should have 3 or 4 options at each position, but for the most part I can only think of 2.
RB: Yedlin, Payne....
LB: Acosta, Vincent....
RM: Pulisic, Scott, Arriola.....
LM: Green, Gyau.....

Anyone have any recommendations/suggestions on who else to keep an eye on?

recycledhumans
DFWTX
Post #19
Friday February 12, 2016 6:47pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,467
@Dave -
Is Chandler out of the picture? Garza? Tommy Thompson can play just about any attacking position, Keiswetter has played plenty as a RM (at least for the US), Agudelo usually lines up in LM, Nagbe seems to thrive attacking down the right wing, Zardes has been a fixture for a year or so now...and that's just off the top of my head.

Lots of depth. World class depth?...hardly...enough depth to avoid undue hand-ringing if one player gets injured?...absolutely.

@USAGunner -
Love your line-up, especially CP in a LAM/LW role where he plays for BVB. Hyndman and Scott would work out well as maestros but Pulisic has been showing for a year and change now that he's got that killer eye in the box and will find your run, so not putting him too high up the pitch is important.

@Know Nothing -
Gattuso is one of my all-time faves...that hard-nosed, get-that-weak-shit-outta-here attitude combined with his actual skill as a ball winner and a reader of the game made him exciting and entertaining to watch. Your lineup isn't bad, but from what I've seen from Gedion he's shaping up to be more of a pure box-to-box with an eye for the pass than an attacking threat. If you're going to have CCV as the pitbull, put someone a little more attack-minded there, he'll have the freedom to get forward and interplay with the forwards, which will in turn creates space on the wings, etc.

Know Nothing
Post #20
Friday February 12, 2016 7:44pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,059
Original post from recycledhumans

@Know Nothing -
Gattuso is one of my all-time faves...that hard-nosed, get-that-weak-shit-outta-here attitude combined with his actual skill as a ball winner and a reader of the game made him exciting and entertaining to watch. Your lineup isn't bad, but from what I've seen from Gedion he's shaping up to be more of a pure box-to-box with an eye for the pass than an attacking threat. If you're going to have CCV as the pitbull, put someone a little more attack-minded there, he'll have the freedom to get forward and interplay with the forwards, which will in turn creates space on the wings, etc.


I see your point. I was just trying to fit what I think will be our future best 11(on current projections) against quality opposition. We could easily play 4-3-3 with CCV out and a midfield of Scott, Zelalem, Hyndman against teams we should dominate, but the problem with having box to box midfielders is they tend to get caught in attack and quick counters would be hard to defend.

MSantoine
Post #21
Friday February 12, 2016 8:29pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,679
Original post from Dave

What we all need to remain cognizant of when looking towards the future are the inevitable injuries and dips in form. All players experience these things and we need to be prepared for them. One of our (USMNT) greatest weaknesses/drawbacks has been the lack of quality depth in the team. For the past cycle or 2 we've been able to field a good starting XI, but have run into significant issues whenever we've had to adjust to an injury of a starter (CD9, Gooch, Jozy, Bradley, etc-). Backups are never as good as the preferred starter (experience, chemistry, familiarity, etc-), but we need to close the gap talent wise between the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd string players. Therefore, regardless of how you rate them individually having 4 CB's with such quality & interchangeability bodes well for the future. And why I would not advocate for using one them in a different position unless we had 2 others equally as good waiting in the wings.

Looking towards the future, IF everyone stays healthy and continues to develop, we appear to have some very promising options in almost every central position (GK, CB, CM, Forward). Where it currently appears we are thin/weak is in wide positions (Outside Back & Wide Midfield). Preferably we should have 3 or 4 options at each position, but for the most part I can only think of 2.
RB: Yedlin, Payne....
LB: Acosta, Vincent....
RM: Pulisic, Scott, Arriola.....
LM: Green, Gyau.....

Anyone have any recommendations/suggestions on who else to keep an eye on?


Lets see Vincent maybe play 1 professional match, or at least some extended youth team performances before we start including him in lists like this. he played 45' against a pathertically weak Canadian team. If you are counting young guys only at LB you should add Pelosi to the list as he has potential to pass some of the dregs (Garza, Ream, Shea). Also Payne could become a LB.

Should add Requejo to the fullback potential list as he's just 19 and has suited up, not yet played for Tijuana and was a mainstay through U17 & U20 teams. Shaq Moore although he looked shaky in New Zealand could be playing in La Liga in 1-2 years. Danny Barbir is currently a CB but you never know if he can transition to LB in the future (see Bocanegra)

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #22
Friday February 12, 2016 8:51pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,304
Original post from MSantoine

Lets see Vincent maybe play 1 professional match, or at least some extended youth team performances before we start including him in lists like this. he played 45' against a pathertically weak Canadian team. If you are counting young guys only at LB you should add Pelosi to the list as he has potential to pass some of the dregs (Garza, Ream, Shea). Also Payne could become a LB.

Should add Requejo to the fullback potential list as he's just 19 and has suited up, not yet played for Tijuana and was a mainstay through U17 & U20 teams. Shaq Moore although he looked shaky in New Zealand could be playing in La Liga in 1-2 years. Danny Barbir is currently a CB but you never know if he can transition to LB in the future (see Bocanegra)


Payne has been starting and playing LB since the break for Groningen. No could become a LB. He is one.

I don't think Garza, Ream, Chandler, and those guys make this list because this is a Youth lineup list. Chandler while he isn't old, isn't young anymore. He is a generation ahead of these guys.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
recycledhumans
DFWTX
Post #23
Friday February 12, 2016 9:25pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,467
Original post from USAGunner

Payne has been starting and playing LB since the break for Groningen. No could become a LB. He is one.

I don't think Garza, Ream, Chandler, and those guys make this list because this is a Youth lineup list. Chandler while he isn't old, isn't young anymore. He is a generation ahead of these guys.


In the case of Chandler, 25 still puts him in contention for a place in the next 2 world cups (I highly doubt at 31-32 he'll still be in the picture but it isn't outside the realm of possibility) so I included him. I did leave Ream off cuz he's already 28 and would be lucky to make it to the next WC considering his age and relative position on the MNT depth chart.

RE: Payne - I was surprised to see Acosta play at LB since he's been a fixture at CDM for the Nats at youth level, which was a surprise for me to see since he played RB almost exclusively up until this past summer for Dallas. Payne has been playing LB since he first came onto the scene a year or so ago, and mostly starting for a top half first division Dutch team. I have to think at this point he's going to be the go-to for the foreseeable future and Acosta getting minutes there is a depth-finding effort.

Dave
Post #24
Friday February 12, 2016 10:14pm

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 679
Payne & Acosta have played both RB & LB. At the U-20 WC Payne saw time at the RB position while Acosta played LB. JK commented on the versatility of Acosta to play LB, RB, & CDM during some of the January Camp press releases. Payne has recently been seeing minutes at LB for his club, but was seeing time at RB with their reserve side last year. I intentionally listed them in one position over the other even though they both could play at either position.

recycledhumans - I intentionally left Chandler out of consideration due to his age (26). Yes he's likely to be in contention for the 2018 WC where he'll be 28, and into the 2022 cycle where he'd be 32 (not unheard of for a defender). However, while there appears to be a number of young prospect options at other positions there seems to be few Outside Backs in the US Pipeline (at least that I could think of). I wanted to get the opinion of other fans to see if I had overlooked any young/emerging players.

MSantoine - While I agree Vincent is a bit short of experience I included him in the discussion due to the clear lack of known options and because I saw enough in the match against Canada (as bad as they were) to believe that he could have a chance. However, I am not sold on him either and am looking forward to see how he does with the U-23s and with the Fire this season. Hopefully he'll really impress and become a real contender as a LB for the USMNT.
I will add Requejo & Moore to my players to watch for...and I had forgotten Pelosi as an option. Thank you for bringing them up. As for Barbir, while he could be a LB for my purposes I've got him listed and earmarked as a depth option for LCB.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #25
Friday February 12, 2016 11:09pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,304
Hasn't Pollster also gotten some time at FB?

Tyler Adams a 16 year old RB that is in the NYRB first team (supposedly for 2016)
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
Dave
Post #26
Saturday February 13, 2016 1:45pm

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 679
Original post from USAGunner

Hasn't Pollster also gotten some time at FB?

Tyler Adams a 16 year old RB that is in the NYRB first team (supposedly for 2016)


Yes, Pollster spent a good portion of time last season playing RB for the Fire. I just couldn't determine if the overall crappy play of the Fire made his play look bad or if he was just a bad RB. I'm hoping that the improvements made to the squad and their new coach will shed some light on what type of player he really is.

hamsamwich
Post #27
Saturday February 13, 2016 3:15pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,447
Re Polster and his versatility: probably played 20 games at CM (his position), 6-8 games as a RB, and 2 or 3 at CB last year. Coach Pauno is going to play him as a #6 from all preseason reports and training.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #28
Wednesday July 20, 2016 7:43pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,304
Zelalem training with the first team:
https://arsenalyouth.wordpress.com/2016/07/11...

http://dailycannon.com/2016/07/zelalem-should...

Kyle Scott was on Trial at Willem II
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
Rey Regicide
Post #29
Wednesday July 20, 2016 7:51pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,720
This is expected, see what these guys can do. Wenger said he wanted to see what Zelalem could do with the big boys. Let's see if he stays true to his word. He might be loaned out, but all I'm predicting is he goes with Joel and Santi and company.

Rey Regicide
Post #30
Wednesday July 20, 2016 7:52pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,720
"Gedion Zelalem, Chris Willock, Krystian Bielik, Reiss Nelson, Marcus McGuane and Stephy Mavididi all trained with the senior squad, with this quintet hopeful of featuring in the upcoming pre-season friendly against Lens."

reading is fundamental...

ok now let's see if he sticks with the first team...

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