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dolcem
Post #31
Friday January 8, 2016 8:11pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,777
Original post from Know Nothing

Before I comment further I would like your definition of what a quality professional is?


How about someone who would play for a Champions League caliber club?
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Know Nothing
Post #32
Friday January 8, 2016 9:59pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,275
Original post from dolcem

How about someone who would play for a Champions League caliber club?


Jeffrey Bruma is a regular at PSV
Ruben Loftus Cheek and Dominic Solanke have played Champions League minutes or Chelsea
Andreas Christensen is a regular for 'Gladbach who were in the CL

dolcem
Post #33
Friday January 8, 2016 11:08pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,777
Original post from Know Nothing

Jeffrey Bruma is a regular at PSV
Ruben Loftus Cheek and Dominic Solanke have played Champions League minutes or Chelsea
Andreas Christensen is a regular for 'Gladbach who were in the CL


Playing a handful of minutes isn't enough to put you in the category of players I'm referring to. They need to fulfill their potential and become important players for their teams. That probably won't happen for Solanke because of the way the club is run.

And if the crowning achievements of the Chelsea youth system over the past decade are two players on fringe Champions League teams, we're talking about a complete failure at some level. Chelsea has had unlimited financial resources for nearly 15 years and constantly poaches the best talent from other clubs. They have had some of the most hyped talent in England over the past few years and none of these guys ever turn out. Christensen is pretty good but considering the amount of money Chelsea has invested into your youth program, if that's the best they can do, they're doing something wrong.

If you're a Chelsea manager (or technical director) and you know you'll be gone in a season (two tops), what is the point of focusing on youth development?

If Kyle Scott were to play for West Ham, Southampton, Swansea, Arsenal, Tottenham, or Liverpool, he would get instruction at academies with a proven track record of developing talent and, more importantly, he would actually have a chance at breaking into the first team because of the philosophies of these clubs (which, to be fair, is perhaps born of financial necessity more than anything else). That's why I'm not too excited about him being at Chelsea.
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Know Nothing
Post #34
Friday January 8, 2016 11:37pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,275
Original post from dolcem

And if the crowning achievements of the Chelsea youth system over the past decade are two players on fringe Champions League teams, we're talking about a complete failure at some level. Chelsea has had unlimited financial resources for nearly 15 years and constantly poaches the best talent from other clubs. They have had some of the most hyped talent in England over the past few years and none of these guys ever turn out. Christensen is pretty good but considering the amount of money Chelsea has invested into your youth program, if that's the best they can do, they're doing something wrong.



Christensen is best they have done so far. In the next few years you will see a few of the players breakthrough and become regulars. I doubt Kyle Scott will, but that does not mean he is not getting quality training. He will probably leave or be sold in a few years and hopefully to a situation that suits his abilities.

To call the academy a failure is a misnomer. Each team uses it to suit their needs and Chelsea has used it to financial effect, which is part of the business model.

dolcem
Post #35
Saturday January 9, 2016 3:14am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,777
Original post from Know Nothing

To call the academy a failure is a misnomer. Each team uses it to suit their needs and Chelsea has used it to financial effect, which is part of the business model.


For me, failing to meet an objective is a failure, and the objective of Chelsea's youth system is not to simply make money off of transfers, it is to produce players that can contribute in a meaningful way to the senior team. They have publicly stated this to be their goal for quite a while. It's why about ten years ago they made huge investments in that area.

They might have finally had their first success with Christensen but even then we'll see if he turns into a Chelsea regular. With Mourinho gone though I think he'll have a better chance of breaking in.

I still hope Scott ends up at one of the other teams I listed sooner rather than later.
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Know Nothing
Post #36
Monday January 11, 2016 5:07am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,275
Original post from dolcem

For me, failing to meet an objective is a failure, and the objective of Chelsea's youth system is not to simply make money off of transfers, it is to produce players that can contribute in a meaningful way to the senior team. They have publicly stated this to be their goal for quite a while. It's why about ten years ago they made huge investments in that area.

They might have finally had their first success with Christensen but even then we'll see if he turns into a Chelsea regular. With Mourinho gone though I think he'll have a better chance of breaking in.

I still hope Scott ends up at one of the other teams I listed sooner rather than later.


How would Scott benefit from going to one of the teams you mentioned? Presently I don't think the teaching is any better there than at Chelsea, only the opportunity to maybe play first team football with the team he trained with. He has had the opportunity to train with players like Hazard and Willian as well as experience both domestic and European Cups.

dolcem
Post #37
Monday January 11, 2016 9:18am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,777
Original post from Know Nothing

How would Scott benefit from going to one of the teams you mentioned? Presently I don't think the teaching is any better there than at Chelsea, only the opportunity to maybe play first team football with the team he trained with. He has had the opportunity to train with players like Hazard and Willian as well as experience both domestic and European Cups.


Because if Scott went to one of those other clubs he could actually get playing time with the first team and stay in the same system for a few years. At Chelsea he probably wouldn't break into the first team and just end up at a new team on loan every year. Even if he did get some time with the first team he would probably get benched for some superstar Chelsea spent tens of millions on. No Chelsea youth player has ever really broken into the first team. That's not an ideal place to play. The sooner he ends up on another team that really has a stake in his development, the better.
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Know Nothing
Post #38
Monday January 11, 2016 4:16pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,275
Original post from dolcem

Because if Scott went to one of those other clubs he could actually get playing time with the first team and stay in the same system for a few years. At Chelsea he probably wouldn't break into the first team and just end up at a new team on loan every year. Even if he did get some time with the first team he would probably get benched for some superstar Chelsea spent tens of millions on. No Chelsea youth player has ever really broken into the first team. That's not an ideal place to play. The sooner he ends up on another team that really has a stake in his development, the better.


Well the 1972 FA Cup winning side and the 73 Cup Winners Cup winning sides were made up of mostly players they developed from their youth system...you did say never.

Staying in the same system for a few years...what do you actually learn from that except one way of playing? Scott has been there at least three years developing the technical side of his game as well as the tactical. From my understanding, Chelsea usually play the same formation but Scott has moved around the midfield in the system. He is regularly playing above his age group and in different circumstances (domestically and internationally). Of the teams you mentioned, only Arsenal could provide the same, and their manager is under pressure to win the league so when would he get his opportunity?

I tend to think of the academy as a job program (like the movie "The Internship"). Do well and there will be a job waiting for you. Only at Chelsea the requirements to succeed to the level are much higher than in most other places.

MSantoine
Post #39
Monday January 11, 2016 6:10pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
@Dolcem. Is hard to argue against some of your points. I will point out a few things though.

EPL started a U21 & U18 leagues 3 years ago.

Last two years in U21 (inaugural season was a jumbled set up) Last year Chelsea finished 3rd (5pts out of first) but had by far the best goal differential (+29). 2013-14 they were champs, both tops of table and won playoffs.

In U18 they won their first group, and then the playoff group (like Belgian style) they finished 3 points away from winning

In the Champs League Youth Tourney (also fairly new). This year they are in the knockout round, awaiting their opponent after winning their group. Last year they also won their group, which included sporting CP & Shalke, then beat teams like Athetico Madrid & Roma on the way to the championship. Year before that they also won their group (won all 6 games) and advanced to the quaters before losing to Shalke in the one-off playoff (after beating them twice in group stage). So they have been pretty successful the last 3 years. They may have had a void in the last decade but its hard to argue that they are looking like they turned the ship around.

Know Nothing
Post #40
Monday January 11, 2016 7:39pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,275
Interesting segue to this prolonged discussion is that NBCSN will be showing the Tottenham v Chelsea U-21 match today live at 2:30 ET. Not sure if Kyle Scott will feature, but CCV should play unless he is injured.

goods
Post #41
Sunday January 14, 2018 6:17pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 520
Sonora is a kid who had high potiential, and has had a decent year for Stutgart II with 5 goals. Stutgart has sent him to Argentina on loan to Talleras who currently sit in fourth place in the Superliga.

His brother has also left Boca Juniors to go to Independiente.

dolcem
Post #42
Monday January 15, 2018 8:57pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,777
Original post from goods

Sonora is a kid who had high potiential, and has had a decent year for Stutgart II with 5 goals. Stutgart has sent him to Argentina on loan to Talleras who currently sit in fourth place in the Superliga.

His brother has also left Boca Juniors to go to Independiente.


Who's his brother???
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goods
Post #43
Monday January 15, 2018 10:15pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 520
His brothers name is Alan and a midfielder. From what I have read he was not playing much, and some people thought his dad was bolding him back. Almost a reverse nepotism.

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