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2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #1
Tuesday December 1, 2015 1:17am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,194
So it looks like teams are already looking to wheel and deal while some players are not happy:

Best possible off season pick ups:

1. Chris Pontius: DC want to slash his paycheck and Pontius ain't having it. He and DC could look to trade his rights.

2. Perry Kitchen: He will be a free agent and ongoing contract talks ar starting to stall. I could see Seattle make a straight up trade for Kitchen with Alonso.

3. Alonso: Seattle has said they are shopping him around.

4. Neagle: rumor has it DC and Seattle are in trade negotiations. DC want more speed at FWD. While Seattle is said to be close to signing Morris. This opens up a spot for Morris by offloading Neeagle.

5. Luis Gil: Free agent. There is interest from many MLS teams and Mexican teams. Regardless RSL has not been a good fit for him. RSL refuses to use him right. I could see NYCFC, Houston, San Jose, and Toronto all make a play for his rights.

6. Omar Gonzales: LA is going to have to offload either Zardes or Gonzo. I have heard they prefer to keep Zardes. Gonzo will probably get offers from Europe and Mexico, but if it doesn't happen then I could see an MLS team try to trade for his rights.

Anyways it's going to be interesting to see what happens in the offseason. To be honest I expect to see MLS to make more convoluted salary cap rules.

skangles
DC
Post #2
Tuesday December 1, 2015 3:17am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,205
LA has to get rid of Gonzo, Keane, Gerrard or Gio as they have 4 DPs on their roster and they already used up their targeted allocation money to buy down Gonzo's contract this season. Of course it would come as no surprise if MLS altered their rules again and LA could keep four DPs. Zardes doesnt have anything to do with it unless they want to make him a DP at which point they need to get rid of two of the aforementioned players.

Your Alonso for Kitchen trade idea makes zero sense for DC. Perry is coming off of a $250k guaranteed salary and wants a big pay raise which DC doesn't want to give him. United are on the cheap until they can get out of the decrepit RFK and into their new stadium.

The salary numbers being discussed haven't been made public but I'd think Kitchen is looking for $400-500k which would be more than Hamid got. There is no way that DC is going to trade Kitchen to Seattle and take on Alonso's $800k salary when they could sign Kitchen for less outright.

Saborio's $400k contract is now off the books, in my opinion United should give Perry that contract and call it quits.

skangles
DC
Post #3
Tuesday December 1, 2015 3:25am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,205
I take back my Saborio comment. He just signed an extension with United. I hope it's not for the same $400k contract he had this year. I'd hate to lose Kitchen in order to keep Saborio (unless Kitchen leaves for Europe).

skangles
DC
Post #4
Tuesday December 1, 2015 4:28am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,205
This is a good thread. It really got me thinking about Kitchen in particular but really the systemic issues with the MLS CBA.

Let's play this out as a hypothetical (I don't know the real numbers). Let's say Perry and his camp are asking for $500k and United are saying they'll pay $300k. Under this CBA, United has all the leverage. Kitchen's market value very well might be $500k but he has no mechanism to determine market value. There isn't restricted free agency like in the NBA and there isn't really any free agency. Yes, they changed the rules last year to implement some free agency but TWO players yes TWO qualify for free agency this off season.

The only card Kitchen's camp can play is to threaten to leave MLS. They can ask for a sign and trade but the key word is ask and DC can very much tell them to go fly a kite.

This is fundamentally wrong and while I like watching Kitchen play and its easy to see him in DC, part me hopes that he and other young players leave MLS to highlight how ridiculous their policies are.

They can always come back to MLS for a major pay raise that they wouldn't otherwise earn if they stayed in the league. MLS is willing to overpay of overseas talent.

Let's look at some guys that left and then came back and compare their last MLS salary to what they earned in 2015.

  • Agudelo: 2013 = $145k, 2015 = $400k
  • Shea: 2012 = $310k, 2015 = $475k
  • Espinoza: 2012 = $125k, 2015 = $750k
  • Kamara: 2013 = $300k, 2015 = $400k
  • Rogers: 2011 = $140k, 2015 = $175k
  • Goodson: 2007 = $48k, 2015 = $315k
  • Kljestan: 2009 = $170k, 2015 = $400k
  • Edu: 2007 = $50k, 2015 = $700k
  • Parkhurst: 2008 = $135k, 2015 = $275k
  • Rolfe: 2009 = $95k, 2015 = $210k
  • Clark: 2009 = $248k, 2015 = $304k


Rogers and Clark are the only two players that didn't come back to significantly more money. Shea did nothing while he was abroad and Agudelo was gone for all of 5 minutes and yet they both got big bumps in salary.

You shouldn't have to leave the league to get paid but due to the league's stupid policies that's the best bet.

skangles
DC
Post #5
Tuesday December 1, 2015 4:34am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,205
A couple of loan rumors have been surfacing with Sunderland and Newcastle wanting Martins on loan and Bournemouth going after BWP. BWP said that he had no knowledge of the loan deal.

Bradley loosely mentioned that he was open to a Seria A loan.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #6
Tuesday December 1, 2015 5:18am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,194
Original post from skangles

LA has to get rid of Gonzo, Keane, Gerrard or Gio as they have 4 DPs on their roster and they already used up their targeted allocation money to buy down Gonzo's contract this season. Of course it would come as no surprise if MLS altered their rules again and LA could keep four DPs. Zardes doesnt have anything to do with it unless they want to make him a DP at which point they need to get rid of two of the aforementioned players.

Your Alonso for Kitchen trade idea makes zero sense for DC. Perry is coming off of a $250k guaranteed salary and wants a big pay raise which DC doesn't want to give him. United are on the cheap until they can get out of the decrepit RFK and into their new stadium.

The salary numbers being discussed haven't been made public but I'd think Kitchen is looking for $400-500k which would be more than Hamid got. There is no way that DC is going to trade Kitchen to Seattle and take on Alonso's $800k salary when they could sign Kitchen for less outright.

Saborio's $400k contract is now off the books, in my opinion United should give Perry that contract and call it quits.


Actually Zardes does have a lot to do with it. If they sell Zardes then they can pay down Gonzo's salary. If they sell or trade Gonzo then it's a moot point.

I wasn't trying to make sense on the Alonso for Kitchen trade. I just want Kitchen. Dude could be a beast for Seattle!

Dave
Post #7
Tuesday December 1, 2015 5:46am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 718
As a DC United fan I hope that they can come to an agreement with Kitchen. Since Eddie Johnson retired they could potentially make him a DP in order to keep him around. As for Pontious.....his injuries over the last couple of years has knocked some of the shine off, hence the front offices desire to reduce his salary. If they can't come to terms they need to find another wing/forward player....Maybe Zardes.

MSantoine
Post #8
Tuesday December 1, 2015 12:25pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,720
Original post from skangles

This is a good thread. It really got me thinking about Kitchen in particular but really the systemic issues with the MLS CBA.

Let's play this out as a hypothetical (I don't know the real numbers). Let's say Perry and his camp are asking for $500k and United are saying they'll pay $300k. Under this CBA, United has all the leverage. Kitchen's market value very well might be $500k but he has no mechanism to determine market value. There isn't restricted free agency like in the NBA and there isn't really any free agency. Yes, they changed the rules last year to implement some free agency but TWO players yes TWO qualify for free agency this off season.

The only card Kitchen's camp can play is to threaten to leave MLS. They can ask for a sign and trade but the key word is ask and DC can very much tell them to go fly a kite.

This is fundamentally wrong and while I like watching Kitchen play and its easy to see him in DC, part me hopes that he and other young players leave MLS to highlight how ridiculous their policies are.

They can always come back to MLS for a major pay raise that they wouldn't otherwise earn if they stayed in the league. MLS is willing to overpay of overseas talent.

Let's look at some guys that left and then came back and compare their last MLS salary to what they earned in 2015.

  • Agudelo: 2013 = $145k, 2015 = $400k
  • Shea: 2012 = $310k, 2015 = $475k
  • Espinoza: 2012 = $125k, 2015 = $750k
  • Kamara: 2013 = $300k, 2015 = $400k
  • Rogers: 2011 = $140k, 2015 = $175k
  • Goodson: 2007 = $48k, 2015 = $315k
  • Kljestan: 2009 = $170k, 2015 = $400k
  • Edu: 2007 = $50k, 2015 = $700k
  • Parkhurst: 2008 = $135k, 2015 = $275k
  • Rolfe: 2009 = $95k, 2015 = $210k
  • Clark: 2009 = $248k, 2015 = $304k


Rogers and Clark are the only two players that didn't come back to significantly more money. Shea did nothing while he was abroad and Agudelo was gone for all of 5 minutes and yet they both got big bumps in salary.

You shouldn't have to leave the league to get paid but due to the league's stupid policies that's the best bet.


I both completely agree and disagree with points made in your post (which was very well done and informed by the way).

The MLS CBA is a joke. "Granting" free agency to the players in a system where two of ~500 MLS players qualify is beyond ludicrus. You cant call that Free agency. Now I see where MLS is coming from in wanting to protect the investment but they should model it after baseball as its really quite similar. In MLB you get drafted and spend 4-5 years in the minors. At that time the team has to put you on their major league roster or allow any team to pick you up (rule 5 draft) and make you a major leaguer. Then you have 4-5 years of arbitration(steady raises) that the team can chose to pay every year. In most cases this puts players at 25-27 becoming free agents. The club got 4-5 years of pro service and time to lock them up with a contract. If the player doesnt like his situation he can ride out the arbitration years and become a free agent. MLS should follow this model and make it where the youth/home grown status applies for a set amount of years and then the teams signs him. Then after 3-5 years hes a free agent.

The point I disagree with is the fact that the only way to make money is to leave and come back. That isnt an MLS problem. Thats life. You can find many books/articles/webpages that explain much better than I that in any business the best way to make money is to leave the company you work for. If your a tech guy you dont get big raises from the company you are in. You go work for a different company for a couple years, then can come back or go elsewhere. Rinse and repeat until you are at your peak income level based on your skillset/commitment level. Thats just the way life is.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #9
Tuesday December 1, 2015 7:53pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,194
Pontius being traded to Philly. That will open up money for Kitchen to re-sign with DC.

cleancutimage
Post #10
Tuesday December 1, 2015 8:44pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,179
Man, I hate how MLS is set up in certain areas. I hate the re-entry draft idea, super draft, expansion draft, get rid of the whole draft process. Give teams a substantial salary cap and let them decide on their personnel that way. That is why we have scouts and technology. Let teams ships sail or sink themselves without the leagues involvement.

I think the league is in a better position than ever to give the clubs the keys. This tread has the perfect topic name. It is silly how MLS is run in some cases. Let the clubs breathe.

Dave
Post #11
Wednesday December 2, 2015 1:54am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 718
Original post from cleancutimage

Man, I hate how MLS is set up in certain areas. I hate the re-entry draft idea, super draft, expansion draft, get rid of the whole draft process. Give teams a substantial salary cap and let them decide on their personnel that way. That is why we have scouts and technology. Let teams ships sail or sink themselves without the leagues involvement.

I think the league is in a better position than ever to give the clubs the keys. This tread has the perfect topic name. It is silly how MLS is run in some cases. Let the clubs breathe.


While I dislike drafts there is a reason for them. That reason is to maintain parity within the league. I'm all for raising the salary cap fairly significantly in order to improve player retention and improve the play of the league....but I don't want clubs to over spend on aging players (Gordon, Magee, etc...), but rather expand the roster sizes in order to be more competitive.
If there were a free-for-all on players there would be 2-4 super teams than a glut of teams that are crap.

MSantoine
Post #12
Thursday December 3, 2015 6:14pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,720
Saw no one posted it here. During the MLS cup Garber is supposed to announce the Vela signing (rumored at 8 mill). Supposedly Colorado owns his discovery rights but it sounds like they may be trying to get around them as NYRB, Chicago, and others are rumored to have interest. Good signing for MLS. With him and Dos Santos its good to see some Mexican stars come here. That should help change the perception for outsiders about the quality of MLS

skangles
DC
Post #13
Friday December 4, 2015 4:49am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,205
I find the term "discovery claims" to be hilarious when talking about guys like Vela and Drogba. MLS really needs to change that term. How does one get the job of an MLS discoverer? Sounds like an easy job.

I'd be fine with with Chivas USA stating a discovery claim on Villafana through Sueno MLS as that would be an appropriate use of the term. Leave it to MLS to come up with a ridiculous process only to be trumped by an even more absurd name.

skangles
DC
Post #14
Monday December 14, 2015 5:48am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,205
FC Dallas traded Dan Kennedy to the Galaxy. Makes sense, Kennedy is a starting caliber GK that lost his spot to Gonzalez.

skangles
DC
Post #15
Tuesday December 15, 2015 5:14am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,205
Vermes to Europe rumors are surfacing and according to SBI, Vermes has acknowledged their validity.

Supposedly the interested parties are two Premier League Clubs and one European National team.

I'd like to know which European national team is interested. Managing a team like Moldova is way different than managing a team like Denmark.

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