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2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #256
Tuesday November 3, 2015 11:05pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 8,943
Original post from fccl

literally over half of the wins in our favor come from friendlies, it is like trying to argue we are as good as Germany because they have only beat us once in three games we have played against them lately, in official competitive games both Mexico and the US are literally tied, Mexico has beat us 3 out of 4 times in CONCACAF finals since then and both teams usually get a win at each other home stadium during qualifiers being their disastrous 2013 game at the Azteca the only exception, also one of the key elements of all the results in our favor was no other than Landon Donovan, the best player in the history of this country who is now retired and we have no potential successor for him in sight. You also use the olympics as an example when there is barely any relation between doing good at the olympics and doing well at soccer, the 4 powerhouses at the olympic games (US, China, Russia and the UK) are all mediocre or barely above average soccer teams. Remember that the olympics are an amateur competition and many soccer powerhouses like Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Spain, Uruguay, etc. do terribly at the olympic games.

I would like a source for those comments from the mexican-american guys though, I think that what he meant is that they just want to have fun instead of actually seeing it as a serious job opportunity.


I wasn't referring to soccer about the Olympics. I was referring to the fact that US sportsman and women are committed to their respective sports in the Olympics. To say American kids don't take soccer seriously is a bit off.

Amateur competition? Basketball isn't. Many of the U23 soccer teams are filled with professional players. Tennis isn't. You can call the Olympics an Amateur competition all you want, but the Olympic athletes are not Amateurs. All athletes involved from all countries train their asses off.

Traditional Soccer powers Olympic overall medal count:

Germany: 1562 medals third most medals ever behind Russia/USSR and the United States

Italy: 663 6th most medals

France: 782 5th most medals

Both Italy and France have more meals than China overall.

Yes you are right Argentina and Brazil and Spain don't have a lot of Olympic Medals. Colombia isn't a traditional soccer power.

And if you are going to call Uruguay a soccer power than a england is still a soccer power.

But it's quite clear Germany, Italy, and France who are soccer powers take the Olypjc games serious and do well in the Olympics. So your argument is a bit biased. You didn't look at all soccer powers.

cleancutimage
Post #257
Tuesday November 3, 2015 11:24pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,099
No said Americans do not take soccer seriously. But taking soccer seriously is different to an American than a Nigerian or Mexican or Serbian. Taking soccer seriously in America is playing 2 seasons of soccer maybe year round. Having 3-4 practices for 2 hours and maybe longer on weekends a week and 2 games. Playing for the school team.

Taking soccer seriously is dropping out of conventional school and playing soccer as pretty much a job as young teen. These kids probably play soccer 40 hours a week easily(whether it be pick-up games, playing on a team, practicing on their own, playing futsal, etc... While most of our kids play it probably 16 hours a week and some would be lucky to get more.

For a kid to drop out of school 12,13, 14 to try and play soccer professionally in another countries isn't as frowned upon as here.

I am not saying all our kids should drop out but we are at a deficit when other countries value soccer or sports in general more than education. We have to find a way to be competitive.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #258
Wednesday November 4, 2015 6:07am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 8,943
Original post from cleancutimage

No said Americans do not take soccer seriously. But taking soccer seriously is different to an American than a Nigerian or Mexican or Serbian. Taking soccer seriously in America is playing 2 seasons of soccer maybe year round. Having 3-4 practices for 2 hours and maybe longer on weekends a week and 2 games. Playing for the school team.

Taking soccer seriously is dropping out of conventional school and playing soccer as pretty much a job as young teen. These kids probably play soccer 40 hours a week easily(whether it be pick-up games, playing on a team, practicing on their own, playing futsal, etc... While most of our kids play it probably 16 hours a week and some would be lucky to get more.

For a kid to drop out of school 12,13, 14 to try and play soccer professionally in another countries isn't as frowned upon as here.

I am not saying all our kids should drop out but we are at a deficit when other countries value soccer or sports in general more than education. We have to find a way to be competitive.


Last I looked we have been competitive. Last 3 out of 5 WC's the US had made it to the round of 16 in a senior WC. And made it to the QF in 2002.

And most serious soccer players in this country are in either an MLS academy or USSF academy. Those teams play 10 months out of the year. No different compared to any academy system in Europe.

I am not saying US soccer needs to continue to get better, but it's not as bad as some want to believe. But that's none of business.

tylercocinas
Post #259
Wednesday November 4, 2015 1:11pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,052
Original post from 2tone

Last I looked we have been competitive. Last 3 out of 5 WC's the US had made it to the round of 16 in a senior WC. And made it to the QF in 2002.

And most serious soccer players in this country are in either an MLS academy or USSF academy. Those teams play 10 months out of the year. No different compared to any academy system in Europe.

I am not saying US soccer needs to continue to get better, but it's not as bad as some want to believe. But that's none of business.


Good point. I saw an article yesterday which stated that the US does not have a World Cup problem, and the facts that 2tone pointed out reflect this. However, according to the author we do have a knockout round problem at every level on the men's side. Getting to the Rd of 16 is fine and dandy but we aren't performing once we get there. So, while the situation isn't as bad as people think, this issue represents a very difficult hump to get over on both the mental and the technical side of things.

TheTruth
Post #260
Wednesday November 4, 2015 3:09pm

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 889
2tone - But you're forgetting that the sky is falling. We've had a bad string of results over the last 5 months and that erases all of the improvement of US soccer over the last 25 years. Each successive WC we have to do better than the last or we're regressing.

dolcem
Post #261
Wednesday November 4, 2015 8:19pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,624
Soccer is taken seriously in the US by a few kids in academies who started to take it seriously a lot later than their counterparts in other countries. The difference is that it other countries, just about everyone takes it seriously, and when an academy kid can't hack it, there are dozens of quality players willing to take his place. Soccer in the US, while growing, still is just not what it is in other countries. Until we get there, we might produce a lot of decent, hustle players, but no one world class.
GET A CLUB TEAM
BG6
Post #262
Wednesday November 4, 2015 11:24pm

Joined May 2014
Total Posts: 72
Maybe this isn't fair on my part or will just be considered trolling and if so I apologize and you are free to call me out on it. I am wondering how many of you who are commenting on how children in the us view and think about soccer actually have children of their own? I read many of the comments here on culture for the youth and think about my own and how inaccurate the comments are as it relates to them. They play pick up on their own with their friends they play 10+ months a year. It is their favorite sport. They have been the same since they were 3 (as parents this has always been my children's choices not my wife and mine). Many of their friends and teammates are the same. From what I have observed in the academy and precedent systems here there are a large number of children filling out these spots, too many even for those available (by the way pay to play here is the norm not the exception and shows no sign of waning contrary to what has been written here in other places. This is a major problem). Perhaps this area is simply a bastion of outliers and many of you write from experience. Admittedly there are many other choices out there here so plenty of other of my children's friends have chosen other paths. I don't necessarily believe that culturally we are as far off as what people here do based upon my own experience raising children. I do believe that the system i.e. coaching is no where close to what it needs to be for those that have chosen to make it part of their lives. From what I have observed in a lifetime playing of my own and now my children I think we are a lot farther a way in terms of infrastructure and solutions than we are on the cultural elements that people point to as a primary cause for the lack of development of the national team. (I think we need a more innovative and unique set of solutions for this problem to catch up that embraces our diversity instead of a monolithic copy cat approach, yes I think about this a lot).

coverby
Post #263
Thursday November 5, 2015 10:45pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 445
On a lighter note seems Richie Williams and Tab Ramos have interviewed for the Fire job. So 2tone you may have your wish about Williams leaving lol.

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/major-lea...

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #264
Friday November 6, 2015 12:30am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 8,943
Well it seems the Fire want Ramos. If that happens then I see Javier Perez moving up from the U-18's to the U-20's.

But I think it's probably a sign that Richie Williams will get the axe. And rightfully so.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #265
Friday November 6, 2015 12:58am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 8,943
Looking like an all African final. Mali beat Belgium 3-1 while Nigeria is up 2-1 on Mexico. Nigeria looks like the more likely team to score more goals.

yodaddy101
Post #266
Friday November 6, 2015 1:18am

Joined Aug 2013
Total Posts: 124
Mali did good at the u20 level too
Ride or Die. -USMNT
2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #267
Friday November 6, 2015 1:36am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 8,943
Dude some of these supposed Mexican u17 players have full beards. Remember when they were caught back in 1989 fielding overage players and subsequently banned from the 1990 WC? I can't really trust any of these countries to field kids.

Mexico Losing 4-2.

admsghs27
Post #268
Friday November 6, 2015 3:03am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 5,873
Original post from 2tone

Dude some of these supposed Mexican u17 players have full beards. Remember when they were caught back in 1989 fielding overage players and subsequently banned from the 1990 WC? I can't really trust any of these countries to field kids.

Mexico Losing 4-2.


Why hate some USA players have beards also. Heck look at CCV supposedly he is 16 dude looks 26 at least. Some just develop earlier i remember back in high school there were some kids at 15,16, that looked like grown men. And don't get me started on the Great Freddy Adu....

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #269
Friday November 6, 2015 3:25am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 8,943
Original post from admsghs27

Why hate some USA players have beards also. Heck look at CCV supposedly he is 16 dude looks 26 at least. Some just develop earlier i remember back in high school there were some kids at 15,16, that looked like grown men. And don't get me started on the Great Freddy Adu....


Freddy never had a beard. In fact he still has a baby face.

CCV is almost 18. He turns 18 in December. When he first came on the scene at 16 he didn't have a beard.

Name one current US u17 player who was boasting a beard at the WC? Not a single one.

TheTruth
Post #270
Saturday November 7, 2015 3:21pm

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 889
Snap. And you know every 16 year old wannabe hipster today desperately wishes he could grow a beard.

Not to mention this almost misses the point. Even if a 16 year old does have a beard it probably means he's much closer to physical maturity than the rest of the bunch and therefore has a huge advantage that will disappear in 4 years. Yet another reason not to piss your pants about youth results, guys.

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I hate to be the harbinger of bad news, ladies and gentlemen, but Michael Orozco will start for the US men's national team in Jacksonville.
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