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MSantoine
Post #16
Sunday September 20, 2015 2:35am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
If and when mls becomes a top legue, with top tv money, then the euro leagues will try to copy them and add playoffs. Money talks. If mls makes more money other euro leagues will look into why and try to do some similar things.

Again it's not something I expect soon but 10-15, 20 years from now I could see it.

dolcem
Post #17
Sunday September 20, 2015 6:23am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from admsghs27

They use playoffs in South American and even in Liga MX and i'm sure they are serious soccer leagues. Playoffs are the best i hate single table leagues like in Europe by half way trough the season most teams are out and have no shot at winning their league. Just imagine if Champs league was a single table format it would stink and many people won't like it.


It appears that you don't understand the difference between a league and a cup. A league measures which team is the best consistently over a long period of time, taking into account things like injuries and fatigue (depth is important). A cup measures which team is the best on any given day. The 2007-08 New England Patriots were arguably the greatest football team of all time but ended up without silverware because they lost one game in the final seconds. If the NFL were run like a soccer league, the Patriots would have won the league while the Giants would have won the cup. A truly great team, like the 1994-95 49ers, would win both.

In regards to Liga MX, I don't consider it to be a serious soccer league. Yes, the level of play has significantly improved, but it is still the toy of a group of owners who only care about profit, football be damned. Mexican teams don't even take the greatest trophy of them all (the Copa Libertadores) seriously because there is more money in the league. That's a joke.

Original post from admsghs27

So in the NFL the team that wins the Superbowl is not the best ?? Cause the team with the best record doesn't always win it the same with baseball and NBA. Just imagine if those leagues had single table it would suck and not many people would watch or care about it. You see leagues like Eol, La liga, Bundesliga, Seria A, Portugal etc have about 5 teams with a realistic shot at winning it the rest just play to play and not to get relegated.


What is your argument? That the winner of the playoffs is de facto the best team? Or that playoffs make a league more "interesting?"

More importantly, why should there be more than five teams with a chance to win it? If a mediocre team is crowned the undisputed champion of a league, something is wrong with their system.

Original post from TheTruth

What kinda a-hole doesn't like playoffs? I mean seriously there's a sports fan out there that doesn't like playoffs? There's only a handful of pleasures in life, guys - beer, women (in very small doses), playoffs, probably a couple others that I can't think of right now.


Whoa there, when did I say I didn't like tournaments? The Copa Libertadores and Champions League are as good as sports gets. And the magic of, say, the FA Cup is why we play the game. Watching guys with day jobs getting a chance to play against the pros or watching a team like Bradford get the chance to win a trophy against some of the world's best gives the fans and players some of the best experiences they'll ever have.

But the idea of having a grueling regular season, inviting half of the teams to a tournament, and crowning the winner of that tournament the "undisputed champion" is simply a marketing gimmick aimed at satisfying an audience that doesn't have time to watch the whole regular season that is an extremely poor way to determine the champion.
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MSantoine
Post #18
Monday September 21, 2015 2:02am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
I liked playoffs because it allows teams to grow as a team, or over come early injuries. Take the Dallas cowboys. If NFL was like epl they'd have zero chance to win as without Bryant and romo for 6-8 games no chance they finish with best record in nfc. However it's not out of the realm of possibilities that they get healthy, go 10-6 and make a playoff run.

In European soccer you fall behind and its over, you start to only focus on making the next UCL. See Man U last year, most german teams.

dolcem
Post #19
Monday September 21, 2015 6:03am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from MSantoine

I liked playoffs because it allows teams to grow as a team, or over come early injuries. Take the Dallas cowboys. If NFL was like epl they'd have zero chance to win as without Bryant and romo for 6-8 games no chance they finish with best record in nfc. However it's not out of the realm of possibilities that they get healthy, go 10-6 and make a playoff run.

In European soccer you fall behind and its over, you start to only focus on making the next UCL. See Man U last year, most german teams.


But then you have great teams that play really hard all season, have a great record, but have injuries at the end and end up losing to weaker teams in the playoffs who happened to peak right at the end. The American playoff system simply measures which team is playing the best at the end of the season (and has fewer injuries) rather than which team is really the best.

In soccer, you always have something to play for. Until the final weeks of the season, even if you're not in the title race, you're either trying to avoid relegation or you're fighting for continental qualification. And every team has a chance at silverware (the cup). This isn't the case in the NFL. Sure, a lot of teams have a chance at winning the Super Bowl, but realistically the worst ten teams or so have no shot. In soccer, anyone can win a cup, and sometimes the victors are from a lower division.

We've all grown up with the American playoff system and are used to it, but when you look at it objectively, it only makes sense from a marketing standpoint-which is, however, reason enough the MLS needs it.
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admsghs27
Post #20
Monday September 21, 2015 8:13am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 6,060
@Dolcem The moral of the argument is that in my opinion Playoffs are better and i'm sure most Americans would agree... And about MLS i am not a big fan of 6 teams going if anything it should be top 4 from conference 8 in total go straight to quarter finals and only have home and away in conference champions only and have the team with best record hold finals. Anyways say a league like Epl where most here can relate to here have the top 2 teams finish 1 point apart say for example Chelsea has 81 pts and Man city has 80 pts But Man city beat Chelsea twice in the year who is the real champion for you Dolcem ??

skangles
DC
Post #21
Monday September 21, 2015 11:56am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,421
Geography makes a single table winner implausible in American sports.

Sure teams are branded under a single league but with conferences and divisions schedules look much more like a bunch of mini leagues. It would be unreasonable to expect teams to play all other teams in the league an equal number of times due to the travel burden it would put on the players.

The only way to level the uneven schedules is to throw the best X number of teams into a tournament and let them hash it out. Yes, you're much better off finishing strong than getting off to a hot start (damn it DC United) and injuries are a factor but that's understood by all.

hamsamwich
Post #22
Monday September 21, 2015 3:51pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,143
What are playoffs? (Yallop out, the loser).

skangles
DC
Post #23
Monday September 21, 2015 5:21pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,421
^^ I read that in the voice of Jim Mora from his famous interview as the Colts coach.

hamsamwich
Post #24
Monday September 21, 2015 6:11pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,143
Hahahaha.... My friends have always said I look like that guy. "Playoffs?"

hamsamwich
Post #25
Monday September 21, 2015 7:28pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,143
To stay on the topic though, I think the way teams change and grow during a season (transfer windows, new players getting to know each other, etc) helps the playoffs be effective in picking a winner.

If the squads were locked to start the year and nothing changed then I think the single table format is good. But for example, LA Galaxy are a lot better now than they were the first weeks of the season. Other teams as well. I think everyone knows the playoffs can have crazy results, but the amount of pressure and good teams facing each other week after week makes for good entertainment, which for me is the ultimate goal.

dolcem
Post #26
Tuesday September 22, 2015 7:57am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from admsghs27

@Dolcem The moral of the argument is that in my opinion Playoffs are better and i'm sure most Americans would agree... And about MLS i am not a big fan of 6 teams going if anything it should be top 4 from conference 8 in total go straight to quarter finals and only have home and away in conference champions only and have the team with best record hold finals. Anyways say a league like Epl where most here can relate to here have the top 2 teams finish 1 point apart say for example Chelsea has 81 pts and Man city has 80 pts But Man city beat Chelsea twice in the year who is the real champion for you Dolcem ??


Yes, we understand that you like the playoffs, but they aren't an accurate way to measure which team is best. The American public likes the playoffs because that is all they are exposed to (but even then, most people were opposed to playoffs in America's most popular sport, college football). This, however, is no indicator of whether or not playoffs are an effective way to crown a champion.

What if Stoke finishes with 40 points but beats Chelsea twice? Should they be crowned champions?

The champion of the league should be the team that is best over the course of the season. Of course you want to have a tournament as well to measure teams that are better in that format, which is why there are also cups. But the idea of having a league that only serves to qualify teams for a cup at the end of the season that crowns an undisputed champion makes no sense at all outside of the realm of marketing.

Original post from skangles

Geography makes a single table winner implausible in American sports.

Sure teams are branded under a single league but with conferences and divisions schedules look much more like a bunch of mini leagues. It would be unreasonable to expect teams to play all other teams in the league an equal number of times due to the travel burden it would put on the players.

The only way to level the uneven schedules is to throw the best X number of teams into a tournament and let them hash it out. Yes, you're much better off finishing strong than getting off to a hot start (damn it DC United) and injuries are a factor but that's understood by all.


This is the only valid argument for having playoffs.

What I will say, however, is the NFL should split itself into two conferences, east and west, each with a single table format (they can add two expansion teams if they want to stick to the 16 game season), alternating the home/away each year. The winner of each conference would play in the Super Bowl. Either that, or just do what Brazil does and have regional as well as national tournaments. Baseball and basketball should do something similar (that is, of course, if they want the best way to crown a champion, as opposed to whichever makes the owners the most money). And the American and National Leagues are not based on geography...these guys are used to flying, I'm not so sure we really need regional conferences any more.

Original post from hamsamwich

To stay on the topic though, I think the way teams change and grow during a season (transfer windows, new players getting to know each other, etc) helps the playoffs be effective in picking a winner.

If the squads were locked to start the year and nothing changed then I think the single table format is good. But for example, LA Galaxy are a lot better now than they were the first weeks of the season. Other teams as well. I think everyone knows the playoffs can have crazy results, but the amount of pressure and good teams facing each other week after week makes for good entertainment, which for me is the ultimate goal.


Actually, the January transfer window is fairly new, and some managers oppose it. But the tail is wagging the dog here. The system of crowning a champion shouldn't be changed simply because of transfer window rules, it should be the other way around. Whatever the transfer window is, it's not a good idea to simply crown whoever is playing the best at the end of the season. Teams that are slow starters always have the national and continental cups to play in, as well as next season.
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