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tylercocinas
Post #61
Friday January 1, 2016 7:57pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,151
Original post from cleancutimage
Being around better players will make you better or make you fail.


Sadly, I think without foreign player caps its clear which would happen to most Americans.

cleancutimage
Post #62
Friday January 1, 2016 8:04pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,306
Which is a sad reality but shows us that we are not there yet. We have been overachievers at the senior national team level but right now we do not have the talent to compete with the better footballing nations consistently.

It seems like we always take two steps forward and one steps backwards.

Mojofc
Post #63
Friday January 1, 2016 8:38pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 966
Not having any restrictions for foreign players is recipe for potential disaster.

MLS has issues with development as is, MLS should be allowing some sort a large discount against their salary cap when signing their own developed players. Would at least give more incentive.

Also need to quit with the made up rules every season that changes depending on who LA, Seatle or the NY franchises want to sign.
Rain, rain, go away Come again another day - USMNT, MUFC
tylercocinas
Post #64
Friday January 1, 2016 8:54pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,151
Original post from Mojofc

MLS has issues with development as is, MLS should be allowing some sort a large discount against their salary cap when signing their own developed players. Would at least give more incentive.


Currently, homegrown players do not count against the salary cap (subject to certain limitations, as you might imagine).

dolcem
Post #65
Saturday January 2, 2016 9:21am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from cleancutimage

Alright, yeah let's field a league full of college kids because they are American and see how entertaining and successful our league. Wait! That is what MLS is now and to be honest, it is quite boring soccer. They cannot connect passes to save their life, too much negative football, too many long balls. Without the foreign talent this league would be even more unbearable to watch. I watch MLS because I am American but I much rather watch an EPL, Bundesliga, Champions League match because it is more entertaining and attractive. Even when I watch Liga MX, you can see the technical ability is superior to MLS.

Yes, we need to challenge our players to get better. The best thing about soccer is you do not peak too early, you can still get better well into your late 20s-early 30s. They can learn from these players and get better. It is not like once they join the league, that is the end all for them and they never get better after that. Don't you want your players to get better year after year until they can no longer physically compete? I do. Being around better players will make you better or make you fail. That is the harsh reality of being a professional athlete in a top league, where MLS is trying to get.


I think you're getting your sports mixed up because soccer players do not get better into their late 20s-early 30s. Soccer players peak younger than the players of any American sport. Most of the top players were already consistently playing for top clubs by their late teens. Some go pro at 16 or 17. But I have no idea why this is relevant to the discussion.

And I don't think you're answering any of our arguments. Even without foreign player limits the MLS will not rival one of the leagues you listed. That's because they have youth systems that produce quality players, because over the years they have always had foreign player limits and it gave those players a chance. Over time they developed elite soccer cultures. And importing a bunch of players from different leagues without growing a coherent style means you will never really build any good teams. Yeah of course it is boring but the league has been around for 20 years. What do you expect? We're in this for the long haul, and that means growing American talent and giving them a league where they can play and develop.

Let's try and actually think this through though and think about what would happen if we actually changed the rules. If we were to remove the foreign player limits for this season, the MLS would be flooded with cheap Latin American and African talent. There are loads of players in Latin America that are better than most American MLS players that would come to the US to play for next to nothing. Teams want to win so they'd go with the foreign talent every time. Soon you'd have hardly any Americans playing and hardly any youth products getting a shot because it'd make more sense to get a proven commodity from the Argentine league than to play some 17 year old American kid. The MLS would still be crap, since it'd be a bunch of second-tier talent that has never played together before without a common style. We wouldn't rival any top leagues and the MLS wouldn't have the kind of TV viewership it eventually needs (who wants to watch a bunch of foreigners play that aren't even that good), and we'd spend the next few decades with a mediocre league and really, really shitty national teams because hardly any American players would get the chance to play. Americans would just give up on soccer and eventually the MLS would fold.

I don't want to be mean, your posts are usually good, but this idea is just downright half-baked. There is a reason that every league on the planet has foreign player limits.
GET A CLUB TEAM
cleancutimage
Post #66
Saturday January 2, 2016 6:21pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,306
Plenty of players peak in their late 20s in MLS and in other leagues. I know man, I am just frustrated with how MLS is run and the style of play(or lack thereof) and a lot of it is from American players on the field that have no technique or skill at all. So my thinking in a nutshell is bring in more foreign talent to compete and push American players to either get better or find another career.

I know we are at a disadvantage because we do not have an elite soccer culture and it will be years before we do. So what do we do field a bunch of American/Canadian players because of their nationality or put the best possible talent on the field? That is my point. I know nobody has to agree with me but I would be fine with seeing more foreign players and less American/Canadian players as long as they are more talented and raise the level of play within the league substantially.

dolcem
Post #67
Sunday January 3, 2016 8:16am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from cleancutimage

Plenty of players peak in their late 20s in MLS and in other leagues. I know man, I am just frustrated with how MLS is run and the style of play(or lack thereof) and a lot of it is from American players on the field that have no technique or skill at all. So my thinking in a nutshell is bring in more foreign talent to compete and push American players to either get better or find another career.

I know we are at a disadvantage because we do not have an elite soccer culture and it will be years before we do. So what do we do field a bunch of American/Canadian players because of their nationality or put the best possible talent on the field? That is my point. I know nobody has to agree with me but I would be fine with seeing more foreign players and less American/Canadian players as long as they are more talented and raise the level of play within the league substantially.


Well first of all, it is relevant if people agree with you or not because we don't want the MLS to fold. People support local soccer because it's THEIRS. It doesn't have to be good, but being a sports fan is about rooting for something that you are a part of...at the very least, your city's (region's) team. But if none of the guys are even American, there's no point in watching. If I want to watch a bunch of foreigners play I'll watch a European league (and we will never get there with only imports; you can't buy success, to a certain extent, you have to develop it...this is why the Qatari league sucks).

I do agree with you about American players lacking technique. But having a league comprised entirely of imports won't solve the problem. Our youth system is really new and working out a lot of kinks. And most of our coaches grew up in an era when the sport was just starting out (you couldn't even watch it on TV back then). I think the current generation of kids today will grow up to make a lot of great coaches, and the players they coach will be light years ahead of what we're watching now. Of course the biggest obstacle is cultural. Young kids don't play pickup soccer (or watch it on TV) the way their peers do in other countries, so in terms of ball skills they're just really far behind, and don't really understand the game tactically, either. We're going to be stuck with this problem for a LONG time. It will be decades before your average American player has the technique and soccer IQ that you see from the players in the top leagues.

Unfortunately though we can't just take a handful of the least bad American players and, in their 20's, surround them with foreign players and hope they somehow get better. They need to be crafted into elite players at a young age in youth academies and then given chances by smart, forward-thinking coaches who have a vested interest in their development and are willing to play for more than the result. We do need a healthy population of foreign players to make the league more competitive, but I think the player limits are just fine where they are.

Sorry again if I came off as harsh, your posts are usually very lucid, and I do agree with some of the sentiment of what you said. At least you aren't one of the mindless cheerleaders.
GET A CLUB TEAM
blaise213
Post #68
Wednesday January 20, 2016 11:03pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,927
Seems like a good section for this article: 'Soccernomics' author says MLS' collapse is imminent.

Lol, dude called MLS a pyramid Scheme ! This article is epic!

http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2015/4/23/8482...

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #69
Wednesday January 20, 2016 11:41pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,357
That article is refuting everything Zymanski said.

cleancutimage
Post #70
Thursday January 21, 2016 12:07am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,306
Original post from dolcem

Well first of all, it is relevant if people agree with you or not because we don't want the MLS to fold. People support local soccer because it's THEIRS. It doesn't have to be good, but being a sports fan is about rooting for something that you are a part of...at the very least, your city's (region's) team. But if none of the guys are even American, there's no point in watching. If I want to watch a bunch of foreigners play I'll watch a European league (and we will never get there with only imports; you can't buy success, to a certain extent, you have to develop it...this is why the Qatari league sucks).

I do agree with you about American players lacking technique. But having a league comprised entirely of imports won't solve the problem. Our youth system is really new and working out a lot of kinks. And most of our coaches grew up in an era when the sport was just starting out (you couldn't even watch it on TV back then). I think the current generation of kids today will grow up to make a lot of great coaches, and the players they coach will be light years ahead of what we're watching now. Of course the biggest obstacle is cultural. Young kids don't play pickup soccer (or watch it on TV) the way their peers do in other countries, so in terms of ball skills they're just really far behind, and don't really understand the game tactically, either. We're going to be stuck with this problem for a LONG time. It will be decades before your average American player has the technique and soccer IQ that you see from the players in the top leagues.

Unfortunately though we can't just take a handful of the least bad American players and, in their 20's, surround them with foreign players and hope they somehow get better. They need to be crafted into elite players at a young age in youth academies and then given chances by smart, forward-thinking coaches who have a vested interest in their development and are willing to play for more than the result. We do need a healthy population of foreign players to make the league more competitive, but I think the player limits are just fine where they are.

Sorry again if I came off as harsh, your posts are usually very lucid, and I do agree with some of the sentiment of what you said. At least you aren't one of the mindless cheerleaders.


I know, I know and I agree with you when you say a handful of the least bad American players in their 20s surrounded by foreign players and hope they somehow get better wouldn't work because they have played 20+ years of lumping the ball forward and route one soccer and you cannot magically expect them to play technical football now that Pirlo is around. But that doesn't mean a player with talent in a bad system cannot go to the right system well into his 20s and improve. Feilhaber for example, Feilhaber is a lot better with SKC than with the Revs or even his time in Derby because he is allowed to play the way he wants to play. Dempsey was better at Fulham in his late 20s than he was when he was in his early 20s with the Revs and when he first got to Fulham because he is a technical, skillful player and was allowed to play first and foremost and secondly, express his skills. Those are just some Americans, there are plenty of Europeans and South Americans who came out of nowhere well into their 20s and became star players for their clubs over night.

But like you say, MLS is all we have and I watch MLS because it is our league but to say I thoroughly enjoy the product I would have to say no, I would go to 10-12 Red Bulls matches at RBA a season while Henry(my favorite player of all time) was there, once he left I went to none because though they are still a successful team, they are relatively boring and direct. I would rather watch them on MSG at my discretion.

skangles
DC
Post #71
Thursday February 11, 2016 1:08am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,421
MLS ranked as the worst ticket value in the world (i.e. of the 25 countries ranked).

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/09/2...

snipes87
Cleveland, Ohio
Post #72
Thursday February 11, 2016 2:31am

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 886
Original post from skangles

MLS ranked as the worst ticket value in the world (i.e. of the 25 countries ranked).

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/09/2...


2tone isn't going to like this
If you don't love it, leave it, USA #1
tylercocinas
Post #73
Thursday February 11, 2016 2:58am

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,151
In the grand scheme of things this is completely irrelevant, not to mention the fact that the league rankings have an element of subjectivity... I'm not not going to go to DC United matches because of an article and I'm sure the same applies to other MLS fans here as well.

Spank
661
Post #74
Thursday February 11, 2016 3:11am

Joined Feb 2013
Total Posts: 130
I don't think the article was suggesting you shouldn't go to MLS games. You don't have to stop going to DC United games but it says when you do, you're sure as hell overpaying.

skangles
DC
Post #75
Thursday February 11, 2016 3:36am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,421
Original post from Spank

I don't think the article was suggesting you shouldn't go to MLS games. You don't have to stop going to DC United games but it says when you do, you're sure as hell overpaying.


I agree. The cheapest tickets to a DC United game are $20 at an angle behind goal and right below the visiting fans section. Quite frankly they're bad seats but you get the atmosphere of a live game which is fun. $20 is too much for bad seats, they should lower the prices and fill up the stands.

I definitely think this is off putting to people who might otherwise check out a game, and this is especially true for families. I bought much better seats to a Hertha Berlin game for 18 euros and that's the Bundesliga, in a historic stadium where you are not at risk of being hit in the head with falling chunks of concrete.

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