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hamsamwich
Post #61
Sunday August 21, 2016 3:47pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,509
He should've gone over which player? Rubin? Zelalem? Soņora? Hyndman? Arriola? Acosta? Allen? Tall? Jameson?

Easy to say now but at the time it was not a big deal. More impressive to me is that Gooch has used his disappointment and come out the other side more motivated and better for it.

As an aside, I know you guys love to hate on Tab Ramos but he has done well and we played quality soccer in the last u20 cycle, and again this time. If you notice @2tone, Gooch hasn't really played his "best position" for Sunderland either but he's the type of player who can still do a job so coaches like having them out there. He missed out as a utility player last round for the u20s but look at him now. Will he get a chance to play his favorite spot on the field?

Dave
Post #62
Sunday August 21, 2016 3:49pm

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 742
@skangles - a lot can happen in a 14 month period when dealing with young players. Gooch is currently playing really well, but the players Tab took to the U-20 WC over him aren't exactly doing poorly (Hyndman, Zelalem, Senora, Rubin, etc...). As fans we should be happy that we are getting to the point where coaches are having to make difficult decisions on who makes the roster and there is enough competition that good players are missing the cut.
Gooch's performances to start this season should put him in line for a senior call up in the near future so long as he keeps it up. His getting minutes places him in competition with Pulisic, Green, and other youngsters who are breaking serious consideration.

goods
Post #63
Sunday August 21, 2016 4:20pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 355
That Sunderland team gave up today. Moyes needs players that are young and willing to put in the work during training. This team outside of Gooch and one other kid basically gave him an F U out there. Good thing they were playing the team they were or that game could have been much worse.

skangles
DC
Post #64
Sunday August 21, 2016 6:19pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,270
Sure, Gooch may have developed more over the past year than other players in the pool over the past year but I find it hard to believe that a player can go from being the 22nd best U-20 American player to a starter in the Premier League in such a short period. Tab and his staff got it wrong.

Jzaval01
Post #65
Sunday August 21, 2016 8:01pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,244
Original post from skangles

Sure, Gooch may have developed more over the past year than other players in the pool over the past year but I find it hard to believe that a player can go from being the 22nd best U-20 American player to a starter in the Premier League in such a short period. Tab and his staff got it wrong.


Not to defend tab cause i question his absence in the team who still made to a quarters to lose to eventual champions but based from sunderland fans he wasnt doing to well when he went on loan. Could have been a nagging injury or w.e still good for him and really excited because he look legit through two g
ames. Dont call him to qualifiers until the friendlies I think in Oct, let him focus on solidifying a starting spot or role

blaise213
Post #66
Monday August 22, 2016 8:13am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,433
Original post from skangles

Tab and his staff got it wrong.


Everything has gone wrong since Porter's 2011 Olympic qualifier FAIL !

Poor coaching selections = Poor Scouting

80% of the players I list for the youth tournaments aren't even considered to be called-up. How bad was that U-20 mexico b team roster ? Remember that failure? The last cycle was plagued by 7 bad roster selections.

Hertzog's U-23 FAIL..... Another joke of a roster call up.

MSantoine
Post #67
Monday August 22, 2016 11:32am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Gooch was given motm honors by the club. In two career EPL appearances he has one unofficial motm (fans and local bloggers) and one official one. Hard to envision him not getting 25+ starts in EPL this year.

I think he should definitely be called into the upcoming WCQ. He should be brought in with the intention of not playing, and then if he lights it up in practice maybe bring him on vs St V's. But Jurgen and his staff should bring him in and see where he stands in comparison to Nagbe et al.

Rey Regicide
Post #68
Monday August 22, 2016 12:11pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,900
The credit to Gooch does not come as a debit to us.

Steve Nash got better as a player.

Hell even Michael Bradley got better as a player. Were we mad that Bradley wasn't the player for us in 2010? or in 2006 at the age of 17?

If there's any qualm about the team we fielded was the lack of true centre forwards. Arriola was playing actual games in his league, Rubin, same, tall, gall, allen etc all were highly touted.

Rey Regicide
Post #69
Monday August 22, 2016 12:12pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 1,900
But no, I take it back, let's fire everyone who thinks sucks from a footballing IQ point of view. Does that make our players better immediately?

MSantoine
Post #70
Monday August 22, 2016 3:14pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from Rey Regicide

The credit to Gooch does not come as a debit to us.

Steve Nash got better as a player.

Hell even Michael Bradley got better as a player. Were we mad that Bradley wasn't the player for us in 2010? or in 2006 at the age of 17?

If there's any qualm about the team we fielded was the lack of true centre forwards. Arriola was playing actual games in his league, Rubin, same, tall, gall, allen etc all were highly touted.


So true. Its more about the fact that Tab couldnt realize how to utilize his best players. He tried to force them into roles they werent as good as. Good coaches make the team better than the sum of its parts. U20s werent even as good as the sum of their parts. He kept wanting to force feed a target man (Jamison??) when he should have clearly went with a true 4-3-3 as he had some good CDM choices, real good possesion based CMs and had quickness for the wings.

Dave
Post #71
Monday August 22, 2016 9:57pm

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 742
Original post from MSantoine

So true. Its more about the fact that Tab couldnt realize how to utilize his best players. He tried to force them into roles they werent as good as. Good coaches make the team better than the sum of its parts. U20s werent even as good as the sum of their parts. He kept wanting to force feed a target man (Jamison??) when he should have clearly went with a true 4-3-3 as he had some good CDM choices, real good possesion based CMs and had quickness for the wings.


It's fairly easy to look back and pick apart what choices were made, but at the time that the team was put together it was fairly enticing. We had 2 excellent keepers (Steffen, Horton), 3 quality CBs (CCV, Miazga, EPB), a good mix of technically skilled midfielders (Hyndman, Zelalem, Trapp, Senora), and a good group of attackers (Rubin, Tall, Jamison, Allen). If there was a position which was lacking it was at outside back (Moore , Acosta & Payne). The injury to Canouse right before the WC and the injury to Tall during the WC were two major setbacks to how the US wanted to play during the tournament. These injuries & the quality of our outside backs were what stopped us from moving further in the tournament, more than any omissions (Gooch) that Tab may have made at the time.
Looking back over the past couple cycles of youth teams we've plugged a number of the positional deficiencies within the teams except Outside back. IMO this is our greatest weakness within the US Pyramid at the moment.

blaise213
Post #72
Monday August 22, 2016 10:16pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,433
@dave

Allen, Acosta and Trapp suck!

Dave
Post #73
Monday August 22, 2016 11:25pm

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 742
@blaise - Regardless of what you (or I) think of them, all 3 were seeing significant minutes with a professional 1st team two years ago. While Gooch and others were fairly deep down their teams depth charts. When you are limited to 21 players for a tournament it's hard to bypass players getting real competitive game experience.
A lot of changes occur in a players development between the ages of 18-23. Some players (Trapp) emerge early and fade....while others emerge a little later (Gooch).
There is a reason that only a small % of players from youth teams actually make it for a significant time on the senior team. Between Injury, Ego, and bad team situations players rise and fall fairly frequently within a national team structure. What we have to hope is that we eventually have a pool of 30+ players playing in 1st tier leagues (3-4 players per position). Players that the manager can mold into an cohesive & effective team.
We are getting closer, but we're not there quite yet. We've got our usual strength at keeper, the makings of a dangerous attack, and a strong midfield. Our central defense depth is looking up, but our wide defender depth seem to be a shallow. We have to hope that we continue to develop and/or find players in order to reach the goal of being a WC contender.

northstream
Post #74
Wednesday August 24, 2016 6:55pm

Joined Jun 2016
Total Posts: 36
Gooch starting again today in Sunderland's EFL match vs Shrewsbury Town.

dunlopp9987
Post #75
Wednesday August 24, 2016 9:20pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 2,548
Gooch has now been carded in each of the 3 matches he's played so far. What the hell are ya doin, kid? I get that he's a ball of energy and constantly chasing the game, but he's gotta figure that out soon. Otherwise I think Moyes could see him as a liability moving forward.
COYB!!
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