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USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #1
Thursday July 23, 2015 8:47pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
Something else I have been thinking about.

Many are knocking JK's selections for the Gold Cup. Lets look closely at the options.

A-He can bring a team full of young guys mostly from Europe (like the squads we had against Netherlands and Germany).

Pro's: They tend to play the style that we are wanting to see, more attacking possession based soccer (possession with a Purpose). They showed really well in European friendlies. Generally speaking they have more talent than the older generations, even if they aren't quite as good right now. We play them and let them get experience for the future WCQ, Confed Cup, and World Cup.

Con's: They aren't used to the physical, rough, park the bus style of the Concacaf and could easily get roughed up and not be ready for that level. They would naturally make costly mistakes (sure they would learn from them, but how many would cost us a game). For the Euro guys who are starting their preseason now, it would deprive them of costly time with their club as they try and fight for their position and playing time for their club. Which at a young age is CRUCIAL for their development (defacto bringing them to Gold Cup, essentially thwarts their development).

B-He can bring a team full of veterans and MLS players.

Pro's: they have seen the Concacaf style and played against it, thus they aren't going to be intimidated by it or affect by it. They know what to expect there. Bringing the old guy's allows the young guys to spend the pre-season with their clubs and gain precious time with those coaches. Many of them are in form thanks to MLS and Liga MX being mid-season.

Con's: they don't play the kind of soccer we want to see (as well)...that we saw in the Euro Friendlies. They aren't as talented as the younger guys (generally speaking).

Keep all that in the back drop of It's not a necessity for us to win the tournament. Either way you can bring a squad that is good enough to win it.

Me personally I'll always go with B if it's not a tournament we HAVE to win. I'll always choose what is best for the young guys that are trying to figure their career out and make a name for themselves with their club.

We didn't bring in one guy that isn't set in their club situation. The Euro Guys we brought are all starters for their club and it isn't imperative that they get the training with the club. The ONE exception is Yedlin. Regarding him I just think it's a matter of we have few options out wide in the MF, we didn't have a choice.
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MSantoine
Post #2
Thursday July 23, 2015 9:09pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
I think my biggest issue with Jurgen's selections is he seems to over think things.

For instance why wasnt Yedlin the backup RB? Once you decided that Bedoya/Zardes were the wingers, when you were ready to look away from Chandler how wasnt Yedlin the obvious answer?

Also at striker- You have Wondo in all tournament, Gordon not home. You send home Jozy and now Gordon is above Wondo? Why not send home Wondo then?

Same at CM. You bring in Corona after the group stage, then against Cuba you take out Beckerman and bring in Corona. Why isnt that Mixx there? Or why isnt it Corona last night? Maybe if Mixx got that 30 minutes he wouldnt have been as poor when we needed it most.

Finally in a tourney you cant keep switching defensman. The most critical thing is getting used to marking, handing players off, and moving the line up to put them offside. Any of those suffer and its breakaway city for the opponent. After Honduras we had a chance to give them all 90' against what should have been a much easier opponent in Haiti. A chance to give them some confidence. Nope. If he wanted to rest Brooks so if we somehow lost we still had Brooks vs Panama since he was on the yellow that would have been fine. Changing all 4 was dumb.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #3
Thursday July 23, 2015 10:41pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
Yeah, I don't really buy that A vs B, sorry. False dichotomy.

For instance, we could have brought in some different MLSers than we did, with some of the Euro players.

cudevil
Post #4
Friday July 24, 2015 12:58am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,028
I don't think you can have this kind of analysis without some additional considerations such as a player's club situation and/or injuries.

As an example, I don't think he wanted to bring Wood in, even though he's an upgrade over Wondo and Gordon, because he just signed with a new club and needs to settle in there.

Or with a guy like Williams-he's just got through a long campaign, and was involved in the European friendlies. Giving him time off made sense.

Morris-it ultimately came out that he was injured, but I suspected that JK wasn't going to call him in anyways because as an amateur, he's not used to that many high pressure games and a packed travel schedule.

MSantoine
Post #5
Friday July 24, 2015 11:24am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from cudevil

I don't think you can have this kind of analysis without some additional considerations such as a player's club situation and/or injuries.

As an example, I don't think he wanted to bring Wood in, even though he's an upgrade over Wondo and Gordon, because he just signed with a new club and needs to settle in there.

Or with a guy like Williams-he's just got through a long campaign, and was involved in the European friendlies. Giving him time off made sense.

Morris-it ultimately came out that he was injured, but I suspected that JK wasn't going to call him in anyways because as an amateur, he's not used to that many high pressure games and a packed travel schedule.


This is why Im not as upset about not winning as we should be.

First of all if winning this tournament was the most important thing of this calender year, AND Jurgen thought Wililams, Wood, Cameron, etc were his best chance of winning he would have had them over here. As the US coach Jurgens main responsibility is to win, its up to the players to get playing time with their clubs. Theres still over a month of preseason left.

By not picking them Jurgen clearly, in my eyes at least, saw the playoff game in october and decided he didnt need to treat this tournament like a win at all costs. Throw in the fact that he knew hed be without Jones, Howard, Cameron, Bedoya would be banged up, Zelalem/Hyndman/Rubin would be unavailable and its clear he kept that playoff game in mind.

Right or wrong I think thats why he made his roster selections. Otherwise he would have brought in Wood et al and we probably are playing sunday. He took a chance that we coudl still win with less than our best and was wrong.

Rey Regicide
Post #6
Friday July 24, 2015 12:35pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
Original post from MSantoine

I think my biggest issue with Jurgen's selections is he seems to over think things.

For instance why wasnt Yedlin the backup RB? Once you decided that Bedoya/Zardes were the wingers, when you were ready to look away from Chandler how wasnt Yedlin the obvious answer?

Also at striker- You have Wondo in all tournament, Gordon not home. You send home Jozy and now Gordon is above Wondo? Why not send home Wondo then?

Same at CM. You bring in Corona after the group stage, then against Cuba you take out Beckerman and bring in Corona. Why isnt that Mixx there? Or why isnt it Corona last night? Maybe if Mixx got that 30 minutes he wouldnt have been as poor when we needed it most.

Finally in a tourney you cant keep switching defensman. The most critical thing is getting used to marking, handing players off, and moving the line up to put them offside. Any of those suffer and its breakaway city for the opponent. After Honduras we had a chance to give them all 90' against what should have been a much easier opponent in Haiti. A chance to give them some confidence. Nope. If he wanted to rest Brooks so if we somehow lost we still had Brooks vs Panama since he was on the yellow that would have been fine. Changing all 4 was dumb.


I walked on as a college b ball player. I wasn't better than the ones who were cut, I was just more fit, and was more obedient. I was open to being taught certain things, mostly because I didn't have any arrogance towards my knowledge of the sport. It wasn't my first love, baseball was. So I was valuable to the coach in that I was an asset as someone who

1. was willing to lug around water, practice gear etc

2. a practice p layer who would take instructions in order to prepare the team.

I imagine wondo, Corona etc those players do that sort of thing and Klinsmann tries to reward them with SOME playing time. Like Wondo gets.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #7
Friday July 24, 2015 1:17pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
If we bring in some other MLS'ers who do we bring in? Keep in mind we aren't going to bring in completely new players for a tournament like this. So anyone we bring in is going to have to have some experience playing in friendlies and/or tournaments. IE you can throw out guys like Trapp, Gil, etc. Those guys aren't part of the regular set up. They are young up and comers, but they have virtually no experience with the USMNT.

Also I said to keep all of that in mind with the backdrop of we didn't need to win the tournament. That absolutely led to some of the decisions.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
Rey Regicide
Post #8
Friday July 24, 2015 1:38pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
Yea, my point probably was more in reference to when the likes of Wondo and Brad Davis got started with Klinsmann.. afterwards, they're valuable because the young guys you've mentioned didn't exactly own the league, and they have no experience with the NMT.

cleancutimage
Post #9
Friday July 24, 2015 2:30pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,318
My questions are what type of still do YOU want us to play and what type of style are we capable of playing? Because with our current pool, we are limited to certain styles.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #10
Friday July 24, 2015 3:15pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
I personally am not a fan of international teams having to stick to one style. Especially the USMNT that doesn't have a big soccer culture and/or Youth Set up.

We get way to many players from all over the place, that have been brought up with different styles and ways of playing. So I prefer us being more chameleon and changing our style based on what is available that tournament. Yes there should be a general theme for our styles, but the actual formation and how we play should be determined during selection, based on who is available/in-form.

If Bradley is who we are building around right now, then we really shouldn't be a possesion-based, short passing, build up, medium tempo team. That's just not what Bradley does best.

We need to be a high-tempo, long passing, high-pressure team. Get guys who can pressure and force turnovers and quickly get forward in the attack. Pressure all over the pitch. Let Bradley pick the fast guys out as the make long runs with his long passes (which he is excellent at finding people making runs and putting looping passes on to their feet). That's why I think Bedoya and Bradley work so well together, they are both adept and high tempo, pressure games and getting forward. Why I think Dempsey doesn't work as well as a CAM/FW with Bradley, because as a FW he slows stuff down too much, which is the opposite of how he played as a LM before where he would make those long runs and play fast on the counter. He doesn't do that anymore as a FW. Why Yedlin and Bradley are good together as well as Wood and Morris. They make those runs with their speed and can pressure up the field and let Bradley make either his long passes or make his long runs through the middle of the field (the 2 things he is best at). Against Jamaica most of the time he was dispossessed was when the tempo was slower and a Jamaica player would come from behind him and take it, or he would try to make short passes. He's just not adept at the 1-2 passing game. We don't have many that are. Mixx is, ArJo is, some of the younger guys are.

Right now I think our best possible team that would play cohesively and well together would look like this:
Howard
Fabian - Besler - Brooks - Shea
Williams
Yedlin - Bradley - Bedoya
Morris - Altidore

Gives you Zardes and Wood off the bench. Gives you 2 guys at Fullback that can get forward quickly in the attack and deliver crosses and be good in the attack, but have the athletic ability to get back and defend the counter. Gives you a Destroyer at CDM. Gives you 5 guys that can pressure up front, make runs with speed and gives good outlets for Bradley.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com

Jesse Marsch has claimed a personal accolade as he's been named Coach of the Year in Austria.
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