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USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #1
Thursday July 23, 2015 3:12pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
So I have been thinking about this last night and this morning. Who is our best Forward?

I know most will say one of Altidore, ArJo, or Dempsey. To which I wouldn't disagree. Here are my thoughts on each.

Altidore - Has not been in the best form lately, largely due to some nagging injuries (I speak from experience that Hamstrings really never fully heal and are a hindrance the rest of your life). He is our biggest Forward, and he is strong. Sometimes needs to play stronger, but often he is able to get the position that is needed and hold the ball up. His speed is vastly underrated by most on here, Of the 3 listed above he is the fastest. Something that hasn't really been shown lately with his injuries. When on form he is the best finisher (arguably tied with Dempsey). He doesn't make great runs into the box, he can create on his own, but that's not his forte and he is not great at it. He does the best job of the 3 of getting others involved. Personally I think his biggest problem is mental. He just lacks confidence at times and it comes through in not taking shots when he should. He lacks that killer instinct.

Johannson - As he is rounding into form he was definitely the right choice for this tournament. He makes very good runs and puts himself into dangerous positions. However at this level his speed doesn't wow. He's not slow, but he's not running by better defenders and getting behind them. Something that is needed for his strengths. He doesn't create for himself and is very reliant on his teammates feeding him the ball. He does a better job (or at least did in this tournament) than most realize at holding the ball up, but he can get muscled off of it. I have rarely seen him set up his teammates, but it does happen on occasion. His finishing is only average for a forward. Which is really his weak spot. He also doesn't have the best of first touches, which has seen him squander good opportunities and good runs but not being able to bring the ball under his control and get a good shot off.

Dempsey - I really don't consider him a true Forward. He's much more of a second striker/CAM/False 9 type. Dempsey is the one of this group that has that killer instinct you want out of a forward and he can obviously find the back of the net and is a good finisher. However at times he can be too selfish and try to do too much by himself. He loves 1v1 situations and is good at them, however when he is playing as a forward he often has little space to be able to do that as defenders close down on him quickly. Really at this point in his career he is more of a poacher. Better when he is free to roam and not restricted to an area. Also is better when he is coming from behind on an attack, and not the front runner. Most of his goals this tournament have come from Set Pieces, loose balls, and as he is trailing the attack. Doesn't combine well with others except when he is trying to be fancy (back heel passes and such), which rarely work with this team as we often fail to make the right run. Even though I think he is our best goal scorer I think he ends up limiting our attack because of how he plays. It's really an enigma and one reason why I think despite his success at Fulham was never entrenched as a starter there. He scores the goals, etc but he doesn't really help them score other goals and really disrupts the rest of the team in attack.

So of those 3 in terms of out and out strikers and adding others, I think our top 5 strikers right now are:
1-Altidore
2-Morris
3-ArJo
4-Dempsey
5-???

Even though Dempsey is easily the best player of those guys.
I put Morris at #2, He has that killer instinct that is need from a striker, from what I have seen he finishes better than ArJo, is Faster than all of them, and gets his teammates involved better than ArJo and Dempsey.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
MSantoine
Post #2
Thursday July 23, 2015 4:58pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
I think as you point out each has strengths and weakneses. It may not be about who is the best striker, but who is the best fit for both the style we want to play, and best fit alongside the core of our team.

That leads to who is the core? Is it just Bradley? Should we be looking for guys who play off Bradleys strengths? Is it Bradley & Dempsey? Bradley & Fab? I wish Jurgen would find that and let the rest fall into place. Instead of forcing square pegs in round holes, lets just play to our strengths and if a good player isnt in there because of it, so be it. Thats what other countries do. Thats why Klose still got big minutes for Germany last world cup. No way he was the best striker, but he was the best fit for that role and was the best fir alongside Schweine, Ozil, Mueller, etc

Rey Regicide
Post #3
Thursday July 23, 2015 5:24pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
Original post from MSantoine

I think as you point out each has strengths and weakneses. It may not be about who is the best striker, but who is the best fit for both the style we want to play, and best fit alongside the core of our team.

That leads to who is the core? Is it just Bradley? Should we be looking for guys who play off Bradleys strengths? Is it Bradley & Dempsey? Bradley & Fab? I wish Jurgen would find that and let the rest fall into place. Instead of forcing square pegs in round holes, lets just play to our strengths and if a good player isnt in there because of it, so be it. Thats what other countries do. Thats why Klose still got big minutes for Germany last world cup. No way he was the best striker, but he was the best fit for that role and was the best fir alongside Schweine, Ozil, Mueller, etc


Very astute, I think we fair better with Bradley, just on age alone. Build around him, allow him to plug into different weaponry we have.

Rey Regicide
Post #4
Thursday July 23, 2015 5:26pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001
The risk being of course, Dempsey being marginalized or left out all together.

blaise213
Post #5
Thursday July 23, 2015 5:53pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,998
I still want to see Andrew Wooten!

Know Nothing
Post #6
Thursday July 23, 2015 6:29pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,723
Problem is we see little bits of players but never see the whole package. It can be argued we have lacked a go to forward since McBride retired.

Outside of Gunner's list do we give Charlie Davies another shot? Is Rubin a wide player or striker? Are Boy and Woods viable options moving forward? Maki Tall?

I do agree with MSantoine...let's lock down the midfield first. Let's see who fits better with Bradley...Hyndman or Zelalem or both?

Live490
Texas
Post #7
Thursday July 23, 2015 6:46pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 1,174
I did not like AJ. I would like to pair Deuce and Morris or Zardes up top. Or someone quicker with hustle.. And yes, build around Bradley with Fabjo and hopefully we can have a CB to build on. If deuce thinks of playing 2018, around him too or as a sub. I think that once Nagbe comes in, he will secure one of the wings. Even though i would prefer him centrally roaming free.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #8
Thursday July 23, 2015 6:59pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,479
Morris and Wood will get more minutes. But Boyd will be back. And Green is a better striker than he is at winger. Maki Tall could be interesting. And let's not forget about Rubi and Novakovich.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #9
Thursday July 23, 2015 7:55pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
I can really see moving forward once the Bradley generation is gone us going to a 4-3-3 full time. That appears to be the kind of strikers we have. Advanced Wing types. But having a guy like Novakovich in the middle would be crucial.

Green, Morris, Rubin, Zardes as the wide guys. Tall and Novakovich in the middle. Then get Zelalem and Hyndman as the 2 more advanced Midfielders. Then maybe a Kitchen or Trapp as the DM. Have guys like Yedlin, Payne, Acosta at LB/RB that can get forward with pace. Then have 2 rocks at CB (Brooks, Alvarado, CCV, Miazga, EPB...lot of options there).

Will be a very very good team.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
Dave
Post #10
Thursday July 23, 2015 10:14pm

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 1,008
Overall the play during the GC was very uninspired and disjointed. We lacked chemistry and the speed of play was very poor. IMO it is time to shake things up a bit.....
1) It's time to drop the dead weight and aged out players. Wondo, Beckerman, Evans, Gordon, Davis, Rimando, Zusi, and Beasley. Players like Jones, Cameron, and Dempsey should be viewed more as Subs than starters, but should still be in the mix for the moment.
2) Select a formation (or two) and select the players best able to execute the formation(s). Based on the performances during the GC and other matches this year the core to build around looks to be.....Guzan, Bradley, F. Johnson, Bedoya, Brooks, Alvarado, Yedlin, Jozy, & Johannsson. A 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 seems best suited for our current player pool.
3) Get the fringe players into the rotation more to determine who fits best and get them experience. Players like Zardes, Wood, Rubin, Morris, Agudelo, Boyd, Nagbe, Gyau, Shea, Williams, Diskerud, Kitchen, Morales, Garza, Chandler, etc...
4) After Olympic Qualifiers begin testing the youth players w/ the Senior Team. Hyndman, Zelalam, Trapp, Payne, Gall, Tall, Green, Senora, Canouse, Arriola, Miazga, CCV, etc....

We need to play at pace, moving the ball though quick passing and individual speed and not the rambling runs of Bradley & Dempsey.


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