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Know Nothing
Post #31
Tuesday July 14, 2015 9:55pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,768
Original post from USAGunner

my reason for Besler for Brooks was Brooks being out for a game and not liking the options behind him right now.

I agree Brooks is the best.


Interesting rationale, especially if we make the semis where brooks will be able to play again.

I have no problem with the swaps. Jozy wasn't there and there and we have seen him in deep funks with no confidence after poor performances, so it is best to let him work himself back. JK wants a physical presence up front and Gordon was the closest fit)

Obviously Garza and Morales were there to be cap tied to the U.S. with the hope of future development. I assumed Yarborough would be given his chance in one of the matches, but cap tying him is not as big a priority as we have some good young keepers coming through the ranks who are just as good as Yarborough right now.

joey11
Post #32
Tuesday July 14, 2015 10:10pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 280
No way you drop Brooks.

Jzaval01
Post #33
Tuesday July 14, 2015 10:11pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,315
can we assume Dempsey and Iceman start all matches from here to the final?

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #34
Tuesday July 14, 2015 11:16pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
We don't have a CB that is substantially better than the rest right now. We have about 6-7 guys who are all in the same league, even if some are a touch better, and some a touch worse.

You guys are talking about Brooks like you didn't see the last few games with him.

Know Nothing
Post #35
Tuesday July 14, 2015 11:24pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,768
Original post from Jzaval01

can we assume Dempsey and Iceman start all matches from here to the final?


With JK it is best not to assume anything with regards to starting lineups...

Next question?

skangles
DC
Post #36
Tuesday July 14, 2015 11:27pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,448
So against our TBD next opponent I'd have to think that we're going to see this.

--Aron---Clint---
-----Bradley----
--??----Bedoya--
----Beckerman----
-DMB-Ream-Gonzo-??-
------Guzan-------

Fabian will definitely fill one of the ?? positions but the question is which one? He could continue to play LB with Beasley serving as an option off the bench but with how much this team has struggled I expect Beasley to start straight away.

I'm going to guess Fabian at RB and Zardes at LM.

joey11
Post #37
Wednesday July 15, 2015 1:03am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 280
Glad to see my pick Gordan was called! Jozy needs a lot of work to remain on USMNT IMO

skangles
DC
Post #38
Wednesday July 15, 2015 1:20am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,448
Juergen geniunely giddy when talking about the addition of Beasley and how he will calm down the backline. I think he's close to a lock to start.

tjknowsall
Post #39
Wednesday July 15, 2015 2:48am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 436
beasley will definately start... #demarcusroadto2018 hahaha but who doesnt love beasley not surprised at all klinsy loves him.

bedoya i see starting and then yedlin coming in in the 60th or so minute

i think wondo is our sub up top if we dont need a goal... or if we are tied and one of them are tired and klinsy thinks we need to change it up... gordon is a last ditch effort if we are losing. think about it we probs wont sub our defense... doesnt make sense to really sub out beckerman unless he is dead/ who would we sub in there mix is not a cdm... bedoya comes out for yedlin... aj will probs be subbed out for wondo even though i dont like that and then gordon is thrown on in the last 10 mins if we are losing... thats my take from it... maybe we would see mix for aj and push zardes up top but i dont think so i think we will keep gyasi on the wing

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #40
Wednesday July 15, 2015 3:08am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
definitely

TheTruth
Post #41
Wednesday July 15, 2015 3:47am

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 954
Gordon's role is narrow and well-defined. If we need a goal w/ 15 minutes to go he gets in. Tied or down. We don't want to go to PKs. If he doesn't get off the bench it probably means we won the Gold Cup. Hell, if he gets in it probably means we've won too. He'll eat up those midgets.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #42
Wednesday July 15, 2015 2:26pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
I think the lineup we had against Honduras was what JK planned on being the starting lineup for this Gold Cup.
However he saw Jozy was not fit and not 100% and way off form, he saw him and Dempsey not working well together. He saw that Brooks and Alvarado while they have the most potential and should be great, just aren't quite ready yet.
So he made a bunch of changes against Haiti. He wanted to see how Gonzo and Ream played together, see if they were more ready for the Gold Cup than the other 2. He also saw Chandler not play that well against Honduras so he wanted to see how Evans did. He also switched up the formation to try and get Dempsey off the top line in a more withdrawn role. He gave Jozy one more chance to see if he had improved. Also gave Zardes a chance up top, and wanted to see how Zusi and Mixx would be in the 4-3-1-2. I think the minute he called Garza up he knew he would start game 2 and get cap-tied.
Then when the 4-3-1-2 didn't work, Jozy was the same as game 1, He then brought on AJ and pushed Dempsey up and Zardes back and we went back to the Diamond 4-4-2. There he saw that the AJ-Dempsey combo with Dempsey slightly withdrawn (as a second striker, not as a CAM) worked well. He also noticed that the Gonzo-Ream experiment and Evans at RB wasn't any better than other pairing and Chandler. He also saw that Zusi can't cut it, and Bradley and Zardes play better with Zardes as a MF not a FW.
However against Honduras he wanted to give some people a rest and cap tie Morales. With the Group Stage win all locked up, he had the room to work with to experiment some. He got Bedoya on the field to see how he was progressing. He put the original back 4 in to see how they would react. So he went to back to a 4-4-2 with Zardes and Wondo up top.
He saw that pairing wasn't working, so he brings on Dempsey for Wondo and Yedlin for Morales. Then we started getting a lot more open space for Bradley to run and our offense actually looked lethal for a spell before Bedoya lost his legs. So bring on ArJo for Bedoya and push Zardes back to MF. That is when Zardes looked his best and pushed Dempsey into the SS role. Unfortunately I think by then we were just trying to skirt by and weren't pressing as much for a goal (I think if we continued to press we get another one). He also saw Chandler just isn't in form at the moment.
So after the game he decides to send home Jozy (out of form). He also decides to bring in Beasley and Corona to fix some potential issues moving forward. He knows he needs someone who can play RB, but if he moves Johnson there, then he needs someone to play LB, so he brings on Beasley and gives the backline some leadership. He also knows he needs some more wide players so he brings in Corona. He sends home the 2 players that he wanted to cap tie (Morales and Garza) and brings on a replacement for Jozy (Gordon).
I am pretty sure that is how the thought process went. Don't think JK planned to experiment that much (he never uses that many lineups in a tournament, he usually finds one and sticks with it, unless someone picks up a knock or suspension).
So moving forward I would almost guarantee he has a few things figured out in his mind for this tournament.
Johnson needs to start at RB, and Beasley will start at LB
Brooks and Alvarado give us more at CB, even if they are inconsistent, they will continue to grow, they are the pairing at CB.
the Diamond is our best midfield formation. Bedoya has to start, but can't go 90'. Yedlin is great off the bench and Zardes is best for the USMNT as a wide player. Dempsey works better as a withdrawn Forward.
SO I think going forward this is our lineup for the rest of the Gold Cup (Barring injuries and suspensions).
Guzan
Johnson - Alvarado - Brooks (Gonzo in QF) - Beasley
Beckerman
Bedoya - Zardes
Bradley
Dempsey - Wondo/ArJo

I get the feeling he brought on Gordon as a Wondo replacement and that he wants Wondo to start and ArJo to come off the bench with speed.
So if our attack is stagnant sometime betweent 45-60' we see Arjo come on for Wondo and Yedlin come on for Bedoya at some point. Giving us a lot more speed and a lot more attack.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
MSantoine
Post #43
Wednesday July 15, 2015 5:04pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from skangles

So against our TBD next opponent I'd have to think that we're going to see this.

-Aron--Clint--
---Bradley--
-??--Bedoya-
--Beckerman--
-DMB-Ream-Gonzo-??-
---Guzan----

Fabian will definitely fill one of the ?? positions but the question is which one? He could continue to play LB with Beasley serving as an option off the bench but with how much this team has struggled I expect Beasley to start straight away.

I'm going to guess Fabian at RB and Zardes at LM.


Why take out Alvardo? He looked pretty good. Needs to add some strength bus Im ok with him and Ream in the Quarters. Id actually like to see the following.
Zardes-Aron-Dempsey
Bradley-Bedoya-Beckerman (or Mixx. Would have preferred Morales).
Fab-Ream-Alvardo-Chandler
Guzan

If you look at club form and club resumer Chandler is arguably our second best behind Fab. He was scouted by German FA. Theres a reason why he is so good in Bundesliga matches when the opponent is almost always better than these CONCACAF teams. Why cant he play like that for us. Is it something Jurgen is trying to do differently? That to me is up to Jurgen to figure out. I dont know how you can take someone who wasnt even in the 23 man roster and start him during knockout matches.

joey11
Post #44
Wednesday July 15, 2015 5:33pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 280
Original post from MSantoine

Why take out Alvardo? He looked pretty good. Needs to add some strength bus Im ok with him and Ream in the Quarters. Id actually like to see the following.
Zardes-Aron-Dempsey
Bradley-Bedoya-Beckerman (or Mixx. Would have preferred Morales).
Fab-Ream-Alvardo-Chandler
Guzan

If you look at club form and club resumer Chandler is arguably our second best behind Fab. He was scouted by German FA. Theres a reason why he is so good in Bundesliga matches when the opponent is almost always better than these CONCACAF teams. Why cant he play like that for us. Is it something Jurgen is trying to do differently? That to me is up to Jurgen to figure out. I dont know how you can take someone who wasnt even in the 23 man roster and start him during knockout matches.
As you see all the time what a player does for his club doesn't always turn out to be the same internationally. Chandler is not as good on national level as he is club level

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #45
Wednesday July 15, 2015 5:50pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 946
Original post from USAGunner

I think the lineup we had against Honduras was what JK planned on being the starting lineup for this Gold Cup.
However he saw Jozy was not fit and not 100% and way off form, he saw him and Dempsey not working well together. He saw that Brooks and Alvarado while they have the most potential and should be great, just aren't quite ready yet.
So he made a bunch of changes against Haiti. He wanted to see how Gonzo and Ream played together, see if they were more ready for the Gold Cup than the other 2. He also saw Chandler not play that well against Honduras so he wanted to see how Evans did. He also switched up the formation to try and get Dempsey off the top line in a more withdrawn role. He gave Jozy one more chance to see if he had improved. Also gave Zardes a chance up top, and wanted to see how Zusi and Mixx would be in the 4-3-1-2. I think the minute he called Garza up he knew he would start game 2 and get cap-tied.
Then when the 4-3-1-2 didn't work, Jozy was the same as game 1, He then brought on AJ and pushed Dempsey up and Zardes back and we went back to the Diamond 4-4-2. There he saw that the AJ-Dempsey combo with Dempsey slightly withdrawn (as a second striker, not as a CAM) worked well. He also noticed that the Gonzo-Ream experiment and Evans at RB wasn't any better than other pairing and Chandler. He also saw that Zusi can't cut it, and Bradley and Zardes play better with Zardes as a MF not a FW.
However against Honduras he wanted to give some people a rest and cap tie Morales. With the Group Stage win all locked up, he had the room to work with to experiment some. He got Bedoya on the field to see how he was progressing. He put the original back 4 in to see how they would react. So he went to back to a 4-4-2 with Zardes and Wondo up top.
He saw that pairing wasn't working, so he brings on Dempsey for Wondo and Yedlin for Morales. Then we started getting a lot more open space for Bradley to run and our offense actually looked lethal for a spell before Bedoya lost his legs. So bring on ArJo for Bedoya and push Zardes back to MF. That is when Zardes looked his best and pushed Dempsey into the SS role. Unfortunately I think by then we were just trying to skirt by and weren't pressing as much for a goal (I think if we continued to press we get another one). He also saw Chandler just isn't in form at the moment.
So after the game he decides to send home Jozy (out of form). He also decides to bring in Beasley and Corona to fix some potential issues moving forward. He knows he needs someone who can play RB, but if he moves Johnson there, then he needs someone to play LB, so he brings on Beasley and gives the backline some leadership. He also knows he needs some more wide players so he brings in Corona. He sends home the 2 players that he wanted to cap tie (Morales and Garza) and brings on a replacement for Jozy (Gordon).
I am pretty sure that is how the thought process went. Don't think JK planned to experiment that much (he never uses that many lineups in a tournament, he usually finds one and sticks with it, unless someone picks up a knock or suspension).
So moving forward I would almost guarantee he has a few things figured out in his mind for this tournament.
Johnson needs to start at RB, and Beasley will start at LB
Brooks and Alvarado give us more at CB, even if they are inconsistent, they will continue to grow, they are the pairing at CB.
the Diamond is our best midfield formation. Bedoya has to start, but can't go 90'. Yedlin is great off the bench and Zardes is best for the USMNT as a wide player. Dempsey works better as a withdrawn Forward.
SO I think going forward this is our lineup for the rest of the Gold Cup (Barring injuries and suspensions).
Guzan
Johnson - Alvarado - Brooks (Gonzo in QF) - Beasley
Beckerman
Bedoya - Zardes
Bradley
Dempsey - Wondo/ArJo

I get the feeling he brought on Gordon as a Wondo replacement and that he wants Wondo to start and ArJo to come off the bench with speed.
So if our attack is stagnant sometime betweent 45-60' we see Arjo come on for Wondo and Yedlin come on for Bedoya at some point. Giving us a lot more speed and a lot more attack.


Nice post and I agree with most of what you said here. I personally think that Evans > Chandler but for some reason JK still rates Chandler. I would like to bring Robbie Rodgers back in after the Gold Cup and see what he can offer, he can't be worse than Chandler at the very least.

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