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TheTruth
Post #91
Wednesday August 12, 2015 2:45pm

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 950
Like I said soccer more finesse/skill than sports like football/baseball that are more power. Remember your Moneyball guys. On base percentage is EVERYTHING. Nothing else matters except Slugging percentage which is a distant second. Power/strength is a big part of both of these numbers. Slugging, obviously since it's about total bases. On base % more subtly because it starts w/ the pitcher pitching away from you because he's scared of your power then of course eyesight and reflexes are hugely important to take the pitches then get your walks. God I hate baseball. Boring as hell.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #92
Wednesday August 12, 2015 4:15pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
Original post from TheTruth

Like I said soccer more finesse/skill than sports like football/baseball that are more power. Remember your Moneyball guys. On base percentage is EVERYTHING. Nothing else matters except Slugging percentage which is a distant second. Power/strength is a big part of both of these numbers. Slugging, obviously since it's about total bases. On base % more subtly because it starts w/ the pitcher pitching away from you because he's scared of your power then of course eyesight and reflexes are hugely important to take the pitches then get your walks. God I hate baseball. Boring as hell.


Power? That is what garners the headlines, but not wins games.
Cardinals and Royals the 2 best teams this year happen to be in the bottom 6 in the majors in Homeruns, neither are top 10 in Slugging %. Just Saying.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
MSantoine
Post #93
Wednesday August 12, 2015 5:03pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from USAGunner

So is a Forward in Soccer kicking the ball right at a GK for an easy save a success? I think we would ALL agree that a good Forward will kick it where a GK is NOT and at least make him make a save. But kicking it right at him is NOT a good strike.

Thus saying that a Baseball hitter hitting a foul ball, or hitting it right at a position player is NOT a success. So that is a ridiculous argument.

Sure I can go out there and throw a 40 MPH ball right over the plate through the strike zone. Does that make me a good pitcher? NOPE, that ball will be out of the park the majority of times.


Your using the wrong stat for this analogy. The equivalent stat would be scoring chances created, which I see/hear a lot when describing forwards/mid fielders. Ive seen people use it here trying to defend a midfielder (Adu with Phile) who didnt have big numbers. You can create 9 chances but your team scores 0 goals. Was that a good performance? In baseball you can hit the ball on a line 4 out of 5 balls and have defenders make diving catches all 4 times. Was that a bad performance? Neither stat tells the whole story.

Again I was just trying to point out that saying hitting a baseball is the hardest skill in sport because the best only succeed 1 out of 3 times is assanine.

hamsamwich
Post #94
Wednesday August 12, 2015 6:01pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,689
Returning a smash in tennis is pretty damn difficult too.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #95
Wednesday August 12, 2015 6:17pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
Original post from MSantoine

Your using the wrong stat for this analogy. The equivalent stat would be scoring chances created, which I see/hear a lot when describing forwards/mid fielders. Ive seen people use it here trying to defend a midfielder (Adu with Phile) who didnt have big numbers. You can create 9 chances but your team scores 0 goals. Was that a good performance? In baseball you can hit the ball on a line 4 out of 5 balls and have defenders make diving catches all 4 times. Was that a bad performance? Neither stat tells the whole story.

Again I was just trying to point out that saying hitting a baseball is the hardest skill in sport because the best only succeed 1 out of 3 times is assanine.


No it's not asinine. Only in a biased mind is it asinine.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/ten-har...

http://www.axonpotential.com/hitting-a-baseba...

http://www.ksdk.com/story/sports/mlb/cardinal...

http://rsarm.blogspot.com/2012/07/most-diffic...

So you may not agree with it. Which is fine. But it is far from asinine. It is a very popular and well held belief by MANY. Including many experts.

The sport that is probably the most underrated is Hockey.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
TheTruth
Post #96
Wednesday August 12, 2015 8:33pm

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 950
Original post from USAGunner

Power? That is what garners the headlines, but not wins games.
Cardinals and Royals the 2 best teams this year happen to be in the bottom 6 in the majors in Homeruns, neither are top 10 in Slugging %. Just Saying.


Read your Moneyball. It's all explained. [Read this post in 'Soccer God' voice].

Mojofc
Post #97
Wednesday August 12, 2015 9:40pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 966
You have to play soccer from the start to be a top player.

Baseball you can start a bit later.

Depending on your basketball style you can start very late.

Football players can start extremely late with the right size or athleticism.

Because you starting playing pickup soccer 2 years ago and feel you're decent... You still are garbage if you play decent quality players.
Rain, rain, go away Come again another day - USMNT, MUFC
USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #98
Wednesday August 12, 2015 9:55pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
Original post from Mojofc

You have to play soccer from the start to be a top player.

Baseball you can start a bit later.

Depending on your basketball style you can start very late.

Football players can start extremely late with the right size or athleticism.

Because you starting playing pickup soccer 2 years ago and feel you're decent... You still are garbage if you play decent quality players.


A lot of the above depends on the position. Except football. Almost any football position can start pretty late.

a Center in Basketball can start pretty late, but a top PG is going to be starting very early, because dribbling and passing have to be superb and those are skills that have to be learned at a very young age (like dribbling in soccer). Proper shooting in basketball can be learned pretty late, It CAN"T be learned to early as most aren't strong enough until 3rd or 4th grade to even shoot it.

Hitting in baseball has to be started pretty early. Pitching needs to be started late (you really shouldn't be throwing curve balls, etc until High School anyways), and Fielding is mostly instinct.

When I was growing up I played Football in the Fall and Baseball in the Spring. I was a very good hitter until I started playing Football (before that I played fall and spring in baseball). Once I started playing Football it would take me till mid-season to find my swing again (in 8th grade I literally hit .000 until the 10th game...Finished the season hitting .350). Once I found it I was gold. But the fielding, that would come right back within a day or 2.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #99
Wednesday August 12, 2015 10:06pm

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
Original post from USnLFCfan

Playing college ball or higher really helps, as you talk to the director, and based off the level you played, knowledge of game, knowing terminology, being able to identify technical and tactical demands, responsibilities of every position, etc....you can bypass the lower licenses. I started with a C. It took me a while to get the B since it's so many sessions and very in-depth. Also have my masters in Coaching from GSU.


Yeah, I didn't get the critical early years with real coaches. Around college years, I didn't know whether I was a GK or a field player, even..... I was still ok at both and not good at either. I still play a mix of GK, LB, CB, DM.
I played against some college players around that time and even beat USC in a scrimmage (they were terrible in that era, and I scored a junk goal to win it). But I was nowhere near good enough to play at a real school etc. I just had speed and tactical nous but Idk if I ever had quality skills except for tackles and long ball/free kick skills.

Original post from USAGunner

The sport that is probably the most underrated is Hockey.


One of the toughest parts about hockey (if we're talking about taking a hypothetical kid who's a good athlete but hasn't played sports A, B or C and getting him up to being a good player) is that the fricking skating skills would cost you a hot year just to not suck. People talk about NHL players needing to work on their skating, that's how hard it is. Another part is that you have to be able to manage your aggression, which is easier said than done when you know that someone is going to get away with something on you about once a game (or about eight times a game in the previous generation).

Original post from Mojofc

You have to play soccer from the start to be a top player.

Baseball you can start a bit later.

Depending on your basketball style you can start very late.

Football players can start extremely late with the right size or athleticism.

Because you starting playing pickup soccer 2 years ago and feel you're decent... You still are garbage if you play decent quality players.


I would more or less agree, with everything you said, but if the question here is "to be a top player" then:

*some soccer players can go really, really far with gifted nimbleness and speed. You see that guy in mid-tier pro soccer often enough:
-beats people with cuts and speed but not really with jukes and creativity
-one-footed
-nothing special as a shooter
-often makes the 2nd-3rd best choice in any situation

*if you're a 5'11" basketball player, no way can you start late. You need to shoot the daylights out of the ball to earn your keep.

*yeah, for most of football, you could just be athletically gifted and have a 90 IQ and you're good to go

But if you're talking about someone playing pickup soccer, even in a real soccer area/city, a good athlete could easily hang with 'decent' players after only 2 years. I see that all the time.

USnLFCfan
Savannah GA
Post #100
Wednesday August 12, 2015 11:40pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,410
Original post from mmee

Yeah, I didn't get the critical early years with real coaches. Around college years, I didn't know whether I was a GK or a field player, even..... I was still ok at both and not good at either. I still play a mix of GK, LB, CB, DM.
I played against some college players around that time and even beat USC in a scrimmage (they were terrible in that era, and I scored a junk goal to win it). But I was nowhere near good enough to play at a real school etc. I just had speed and tactical nous but Idk if I ever had quality skills except for tackles and long ball/free kick skills.

But if you're talking about someone playing pickup soccer, even in a real soccer area/city, a good athlete could easily hang with 'decent' players after only 2 years. I see that all the time.


Yeah that's important, if you aren't playing by 7/8 the likelihood of making to a good college program (at the very least) is extremely slim. The technical ability of the game is built on those formative years.

As far as the last part, decent players would be guys that have played all their lives but were never any standouts even at the HS/club level. I would agree with that.

mmee
Culver City, CA
Post #101
Thursday August 13, 2015 9:50am

Joined Mar 2014
Total Posts: 2,147
Original post from USnLFCfan

Yeah that's important, if you aren't playing by 7/8 the likelihood of making to a good college program (at the very least) is extremely slim. The technical ability of the game is built on those formative years.


I was playing. I didn't have technical coaching to speak of at any point before HS.

This thread has to be one of the more epic digressions in Yanks-Abroad history that wasn't mostly arguing.

dfw_fan
DfW
Post #102
Thursday August 13, 2015 1:28pm

Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts: 998
Original post from mmee

I was playing. I didn't have technical coaching to speak of at any point before HS.



I think coaching also makes a huge impact, even at pee-wee levels, I have seen coaches who are gung-ho/robotic, constantly yelling , get to the ball, run up there, kick it out, kick it out.

If the kids are taught correct technical skills, they would not learn bad habits.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #103
Thursday August 13, 2015 1:30pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,322
One thing regarding starting soccer early, To be a top-notch GK you can start later than to be a field player. So much of it is natural instincts and cat like reflexes. A lot of that stuff comes naturally. A lot of the other stuff (getting defenses set up right for set-pieces, knowing when to be aggressive, etc) comes later anyways (why you don't see many young GK's dominating and GK's really don't hit their stride until the late 20's and can last until their late 30's (which lines up with most other sports...hitting prime in late 20's).
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
MSantoine
Post #104
Thursday August 13, 2015 6:00pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,723
Original post from USAGunner

No it's not asinine. Only in a biased mind is it asinine.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/ten-har...

http://www.axonpotential.com/hitting-a-baseba...

http://www.ksdk.com/story/sports/mlb/cardinal...

http://rsarm.blogspot.com/2012/07/most-diffic...

So you may not agree with it. Which is fine. But it is far from asinine. It is a very popular and well held belief by MANY. Including many experts.

The sport that is probably the most underrated is Hockey.


Sorry but those articles proove my point in the myth. Almost all of them refer to the whole thought of what other sport can you fail 70% of the time and be considered successful. I can guarentee you that soccer plays score on less than 30% of there shots on goal. In hocky PKs are scored less than 30% of the try, never mind shots with defense in front of them.

Again all these articles compare apples to oranges. Did you know Alex Ovechkin only scored on 13% of his shots. Stamkos scored on 16%. Not one of the top 40 goal scorers scored on even 20% of their shots. Those guys "goal" is to score. Just like a batter is to get a hit.

All the articles act like if you didnt get a hit you didnt hit the ball. Hitting a ball is not hard to do. Its one of the first things people can teach their kids. Its easier to hit a ball then catch it for youngsters.

If the average major leaguer, not the best but average, can hit a pitch 80% of the time you cant say its the hardest thing to do in sports.

USnLFCfan
Savannah GA
Post #105
Thursday August 13, 2015 6:14pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,410
Original post from USAGunner

One thing regarding starting soccer early, To be a top-notch GK you can start later than to be a field player. So much of it is natural instincts and cat like reflexes. A lot of that stuff comes naturally. A lot of the other stuff (getting defenses set up right for set-pieces, knowing when to be aggressive, etc) comes later anyways (why you don't see many young GK's dominating and GK's really don't hit their stride until the late 20's and can last until their late 30's (which lines up with most other sports...hitting prime in late 20's).


Depending on the country, sure. It's getting to the point now, that clubs are wanting their GKs to be good with their feet. A bit later doesn't hurt though, still a lot to learn, getting angles right is a long process, when to stay on your line or come off, it's definitely the hardest position to play.

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